Everybody know what we call "the fog" around here. But I think that there's entirely too many WSs who are given a "fog pass" indefinitely. The fog is not just an emotional phenomenon....it's a physical one. It's not a coincidence that Dr. Harley recommends Plan B for two years after the A....that's also (not coincidentally) the result of scientific of studies on the biochemistry of infatuation (attraction). It peaks at around six months and fades away at around 18 to 24 months. At the end of that time period....your spouse may no longer be "fogged"....he/she may just be a walk away spouse (or a narcissitic jerk). Most of us know the indications of when it's time to reassess Plan A...and move to B....but there seems to be some confusion about when to end Plan B and what that means (it does NOT necessarily mean resume contact).

On another thread I posted some of *my* guidelines (based on the things I've studied) for knowing when to reconsider a "plan" (In keeping with Harley's guidelines). Please add thoughts and comments:

Indications that it might be time to re-evaluate Plan A:

*Enough time has passed. Harley recommends three to six months.

*It's impossible to end conflict....all time spent together is spent fighting.

*Too much damage is being done to the marriage or the BS.

*The WS is abusive (which includes things like cruelty, extreme lack of remorse over affair, violence, intimidation etc).

*The betrayed spouse is too exhausted to continue....physically or emotionally.

*The betrayed spouse is losing all love for their spouse.

*The betrayed spouse is on the brink of divorce filing.

*One I think makes sense.....The WS and OP move in together.

When it's time to end Plan A.....you move to Plan B.

But does Plan B have a lifespan? And what comes after Plan B? Plan D?

Indications that it might be time to "consider" moving out of Plan B:

*Enough time has passed. The "attraction" phase of infatuation lasts 18 to 24 months. After that....the affair has moved into "attachment" and entrenchment so many of the benefits of Plan A and B are neutralized and ineffective.

*If you have been successful at remaining TOTALLY dark for at least 6 months AT LEAST! (the time it takes for the biochemistry of the affair to "peak")....and the WS is making repeated overatures to come back to the marriage.

*The WS has delayed filing divorce for over two years but made no contact in two years.

*The BS is ready to divorce after two years and is prepared to file independently.

*The BS is "stuck" in grief and can't EVER imagine forgiving the WS even if they come back.

*The BS....after a year....still spends copious amounts of energy snooping, obsessing or reporting the actions of the WS and not enough time building self esteem or an independent life.

*The BS finds themselves feeling extremely victimized/depressed and the separation has not helped those feelings at all.

*No contact can't be established because BS, WS or OP just can't seem to manage it.

There are more for both A and B....but these are some of the things that might encourage someone to re-evaluate what plan they're in....and what their goals are.

So, what comes AFTER Plan B?

*Ending this marriage saving strategy ends expectations, false hope etc. on both sides. It brings <some> closure.

*"No contact" is no longer a "tool" to save a marriage....but a CHOICE. Some folks may want to resume contact to deal with child or financial issues directly.....others will never have contact again. It depends on whether the BS still feels they need that buffer of protection or not.

*There is Plan D of course.

*Some folks will do a short Plan A again, and then move to Plan D.

*There is Plan ME....which just means you're ready to jettison the past and start anew....not knowing where you want to go exactly.....only that you no longer have any desire to do with WS.

*Some folks will do a "semi-dark" strategy where they lay out the conditions for reconciliation again (refresher of Plan B)....wait a little longer and reassess or file.

*True detachment become possible.

*There is an opportunity to ethically date other people (AFTER the divorce is final of course).

Just some stuff to think about.

Starfish,

Nice post but I really like Orchid's summation of Plan A/B

Plan A your spouse and Plan B your WS

Star- I think is a good guideline to follow. It's gives an indication of when something different need to be done for preservation of self and family.

Thank you for your thoughts. This is something that I have pondered on myself. I don't need someone else to tell me what I need to do in a given situation, but it's great to have something to contemplate.

I appreciate your post, also St*rfish. I think that sometimes the timelines and purpose gets foggy or blurry. You bring clarity to the discussion. thanks.

Thanks for the pointers, Star,

It does make me wonder at what stage I am in PLAN B...... If I answer some of your points.....could you give me your thoughts on where you think I stand?

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
*Enough time has passed. The "attraction" phase of infatuation lasts 18 to 24 months. After that....the affair has moved into "attachment" and entrenchment so many of the benefits of Plan A and B are neutralized and ineffective.
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WS started the A in the Fall of 2004 (a co-worker)..... I found out about it during the holidays at the end of December 2004....... in July of last year, 2005, WS moved out a block away (but not with OW)..... this July he moved out to a bigger apt. (that we co-own) so the boys could each have a 'room' and to no longer rent.....now, how does the timeline work if WS does not 'live' with OW? ....although I suspect the week I have the boys he probably mostly stays at OW's apt......because it will be 2 yrs this Fall since A started.... 2 yrs this Christmas for D-day... and it has been one yr since WS moved out.... personally I was giving myself two yrs in PLAN B then I would see..... that would be summer of 2007 (but then again I was counting on OW retiring and no longer working with WS.....to work in our favour....but that no longer seems to be the case!)

quote:----------------------------------------------------
*If you have been successful at remaining TOTALLY dark for at least 6 months AT LEAST! (the time it takes for the biochemistry of the affair to "peak")....and the WS is making repeated overatures to come back to the marriage.
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Not able to be TOTALLY dark.... weekly exchange of phone 'messages' re boys and finances without talking to each other......but WS is not making any overtures to come back to M.....WS wants a friendly co-parenting R with me.....but remain single (and have OW as GF)

quote:---------------------------------------------------
*The WS has delayed filing divorce for over two years but made no contact in two years.
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WS has given me no indication that he wants to file D....WS wants things to stay as they 'were' (except that, having moved out, this gives him the right to have a GF up front) even though we are still M!

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
*The BS is ready to divorce after two years and is prepared to file independently.
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This is not yet happening.....

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
*The BS is "stuck" in grief and can't EVER imagine forgiving the WS even if they come back.
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I am not stuck in grief......and I can imagine forgiving the WS.....if he sincerely commits to working on M - primary condition to be met: NC with OW!

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
*The BS....after a year....still spends copious amounts of energy snooping, obsessing or reporting the actions of the WS and not enough time building self esteem or an independent life.
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Not so.... I can now see myself being OK with or without WS.... that doesn't mean it's what I want...nor that it doesn't scare me..... but I will be OK.... and, no, not obsessing at all.....although I think I could still reduce the amount of time I spend 'thinking' of WS sometimes.... but definitely not obsessing....too much of a waste of time...and don't really know what he is up to! ....I am actually learning to enjoy time 'alone'!

quote:---------------------------------------------------
*The BS finds themselves feeling extremely victimized/depressed and the separation has not helped those feelings at all.
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No....PLAN B has been a life-saver for me!

quote:---------------------------------------------------
*No contact can't be established because BS, WS or OP just can't seem to manage it.
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WS did not choose NC with OW because he says, knowing himself, he couldn't stick to NC...and didn't want to give me false hope.... but this was said 6 months into affair...and according to your calculation ... at the 'peak' of the attraction.....

quote:----------------------------------------------------
So, what comes AFTER Plan B?

*Ending this marriage saving strategy ends expectations, false hope etc. on both sides. It brings <some> closure.
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I guess I will eventually get to the above stage....

quote:----------------------------------------------------
*"No contact" is no longer a "tool" to save a marriage....but a CHOICE. Some folks may want to resume contact to deal with child or financial issues directly.....others will never have contact again. It depends on whether the BS still feels they need that buffer of protection or not.
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I don't think I will resume contact with WS.....as long as he is with OW.......

quote:----------------------------------------------------
*There is Plan D of course.
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Not there, yet, and no signs of it in the near future.....

quote:----------------------------------------------------
*Some folks will do a short Plan A again, and then move to Plan D.
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....I would rather stick to PLAN B....and wait until I feel the need to move to Plan D.....

quote:----------------------------------------------------
*There is Plan ME....which just means you're ready to jettison the past and start anew....not knowing where you want to go exactly.....only that you no longer have any desire to do with WS.
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I am not there, yet.

quote:---------------------------------------------------
*Some folks will do a "semi-dark" strategy where they lay out the conditions for reconciliation again (refresher of Plan B)....wait a little longer and reassess or file.
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I may be here.......a reminder to WS about PLAN B...when WS is again asking to consider us meeting to discuss etc etc.....a PBL refresher......

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*True detachment become possible.
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I am not sure what 'true' detachment means..... I still care very much about WS...and probably always will..... 20 yrs together and two boys and other family projects are hard to totally 'detach' from.....although I am not prepared to be in any kind of R with him under the circumstances (A with OW)

quote:---------------------------------------------------
*There is an opportunity to ethically date other people (AFTER the divorce is final of course).
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.....I guess I am not there yet either...

Sorry for those reading for the thread-jacking.....but I am still uncertain about being 'clear' yet again with WS about PLAN B.....and hope that this exercise will help me...... I can't believe that one yr has gone by already of not seeing WS....when we had been used to seeing and talking to each other every day for 20 yrs...that I find really surprising... and I am sure a lot of other BS's feel the same way!