Hi all...

My W told me 5-6 years ago that her stepfather had tried several times to molest her when she was 15-18 or so. She had 3-4 years of IC and is still on AD's. I've always suspected that there's more to it than she's telling me, but she is adamant that he never actually succeeded. I never press the point; I figure she'll tell me if and when she's ready to.

She has a lot of buried resentment towards her mom...this guy was trying to molest her before they got married, she told her mom what was going on, and mom blew her off and married the guy anyway. On top of that, mom tried to force her to spend as much time as possible around her stepfather. Mom's a real piece of work and my W is deciding when and how would be best to finally confront her mom.

We moved from Arizona to the east coast in 98, and have never been back. Her mom divorced her stepfather last year so he's permanently out of the picture. Well, not quite as permanently as I'd like to make him...

My question for you CSA survivors is...is there anything else I should do for her besides listen? I know there is nothing that I can 'fix'...at most I try to ask some gentle questions. I can't confront her mom for her; she gets to do that on her own. I feel like I should *do* something besides just listening, but I don't know what.

Oh, our situation...married 9 years, I'm 36 she's 32, first marriage for both of us, 1 son age 2.5, no infidelity.

Any ideas?

bb,
Bless you for wanting to help. It must be incredibly hard to watch someone you love suffer and struggle... and know there is little you can do to help (This is especially difficult for you men, no?)

It may not feel like you're doing much when you listen, but you are... especially if you can then validate her feelings.

Also, patience. I would imagine, from the outside looking in, it may seem like it's taking her "forever" to resolve this... but it takes time to work through these things. A mother's betrayal of a daughter cuts DEEP. I know.

I was molested by my brother as a kid... and when my mother found out about it, she accused me of "liking it"... then just swept it under the rug. I just started getting counseling for it about seven months ago... some 30 years after the fact.

My husband has known about my sexual abuse since before we were married, but I always downplayed it as being "no big deal" and "having no lasting negative impact on me". And he never asked much about it. But after my affair, it came up in MC... and I started dealing with it in IC.

A few weeks into IC, my husband made a few comments -- I don't remember the exact words -- but the impression I got was that he was impatient and wanted me to hurry up and work through it and get over it. That kinda hurt, because I already felt... I don't know... weak, or needy, or like a big crybaby or something. And I was impatient with my progress, too.

Then, in March we went to myparents' house for a weekend visit. That night in bed... he rolled overand held me really, really tightly... and I could feel tears on his
cheeks. Neither of us said anything then. But the next day, we were onour way to go skiing -- just me and him in the car -- and he said, "You know, being in that house for the first time since you started counseling... it really hit me what you must have gone through in that house... and how awful it must have been to be a little kid, and not feel safe and protected in your own home. And I just want you to know how really, truly sorry I am that that happened to you. And you should do whatever you need to do to heal. And if there's anything at all that I can do to help, I'm there for you, okay?"

Those words meant so much to me, bb. They showed me -- especially the part where he said who awful it was to grow up in a home where you didn't feel safe and protected -- that he actually UNDERSTOOD my pain!! That's what I mean about validating her and being patient.

Hope that helps somehow.

--SC

This is something I've wanted to talk about for quite a long time. I've never considered what happened to me "sexual abuse" because on a scale of 1 to 10 it seems so trivial compared to what happens to other people. But it's always worried me. When I spoke to a girlfriend about it when I was in my 20s she said, don't be so stupid that was just like doctors and nurses and it happens to most kids. I just shut up about it after that. My H knows about it.

When I was 11 I was staying overnight with my best girlfriend. We were over the road neighbours and I'd been friends with her and going to their house since I was 6. One night her parents were at a party at the next door neighbours and my friend's 16 yo brother came into our room and got into bed with me. He said stuff like "if you let me touch you down there you can be my girlfriend". I could feel "him" against my leg and the whole experience was horrible.

Nothing happened and I think he left when my girlfriend said "leave her alone."

When he'd gone I thought I was going to throw up and insisted we tell her mother at the party. So two girls in their nighties showed up at the neighbours, with me crying and upset. I wanted to go home but didn't want to tell my parents which I'd have had to do if I suddenly arrived home. My friend's mother came back with us, talked to my friend's brother then she came and told me he hadn't meant to upset me and was sorry.

Next morning I was out of there before anyone else was up. No one ever mentioned it again and I still visited the house all the time until I got married and moved away.

I suppose I'm asking if this could have affected me more than I think it did. I'm 52 now and it's all a long, long time ago.

Thank you both a lot for your replies. It is especially hard sometimes to listen and not 'fix' something - SC is right; that is the male mindset, and on top of that I'm an engineer...so sometimes I see a problem that needs to be fixed rather than a wife who needs to be listened to.

She really doesn't dwell on it too much unless something triggers her. She's very good at burying that resentment...maybe as a survival tool, I don't know. Yesterday she saw something in passing on Dr Phil about signs to recognize a molester by. She got to mentally ticking them off in her head, wondered where this kind of information was when she was that age, wondered if she should print the list out and mail it to her mom...and if she'd even 'get it'.

After our son went to bed she talked about it. At the end of the conversation, I told her that I had always had the sense that there was more to it than she was telling me, and that was okay...she said "the closest he ever got was...", got this slack look on her face and went upstairs. She came back down a few minutes later and I got on to brushing her hair and we talked about other things.

I guess I'll have to believe that what I've been doing is enough.

KiwiJ, your story reminds me of one my grandmother told me a few years before she passed away. She grew up in the 1920's in West Virginia - at that time a very rural, impoverished, backwater part of the USA. When she was 13, one of her uncles tried to crawl in bed with her.

She kicked him in the b*lls. Her words? "I let him know I didn't care for that too much".

None of her uncles bothered her after that.

BB, it sounds like the resentment is more towards her mother. It also sounds like he got further than she's comfortable talking about and it's very painful for her to talk about. It's very sad how many women have been affected by something like that.

Goodness, my story reminded you of rural West Virginia in the 20s. I'm not even American but I've heard the stories. I was only 11 and very protected. I really don't think it's affected me too much. Except I'm the FWW as you know and there are a great many FWWs on this board who have CSA in their past.

Reading this thread brought back memories of some bad experiences of mine which I would like to share...

when I was maybe 7 or 8 or 9, my girlfriend's 'older brother' decided it was OK for him to put his hand in my underwear and touch me, on several occasions...this happened while sitting at a table watching television and the room was somewhat dark and we were not alone!..... and me feeling helpless and confused to do anything....and not wanting to make a 'scene' I just did 'nothing'...... now that I am older....I think it would have been better if I had done 'something'..... reacted in someway..... I feel that somehow I internalized the 'helplessness'...... and that it has somehow affected me to this day... but I am not sure how or in what way....

...but my worst experience happened much later in life....as an adult...... and the 'surprise' element really affected me...to this day.....let me explain...

...as a woman....one of the realities we are faced with while growing up in this world is with the 'possibility' of having someone try to rape you, and to be cautious..... but my image of that was always....while walking down the street at night,etc...... but one thing would be for sure, I would somehow be aware when someone was trying to rape me...

...but one evening...after a family get-together out of town.....my S's divorced brother offered us to stay at his apt. where he and his son, 20ish, lived...because he was going to stay at his GF's house... we took him up on the offer.....his bedroom was adjacent to the bathroom with two entrances....one going directly to his bedroom....

My S decided to stay up and watch TV.....and I went to bed.... at one point....I was awaken by what I thought was my S caressing me etc etc..... well....I guess I was not drunk enough or sleepy enough....because I somehow realized that the 'touch' was different..... and it was..... it was S's nephew.... although drunk..... not drunk enough to not know what he was doing....who had probably come him through the bathroom door directly into the bedroom!

.....I was in total shock.....I did not scream.....I was worried and scared about what could happen if my S confronted nephew on the spot.... I imagined a fist-fight or something and didn't what to deal with THAT ...... so, again, I internalized....and just asked nephew to leave..... I told my S about it.....he confronted nephew the next morning....who claimed he was too drunk to remember.... but he and I know better...... if he was really too drunk..... he would have just 'slept' it off on the bed....and that's NOT what happened.....

....unfortunately.....we left it at that..... I didn't think it would affect me that much.... but I haven't forgotten..... especially the thought that, had I been drunk enough not to notice....nephew could have actually 'raped' me with my CONSENT.......BBBRRRRR.....I still get chills down my spine just thinking about it..... and I know that with that incident.... my feeling 'safe' in this world went 'out the window'..... my S felt helpless in protecting me.... and by not telling anyone else.... on the odd occasion, have also ended up in the same room with nephew at family reunions.....

...I think incidents where the 'physical' boundary is literally violated...like in sexual abuse..... particularly as a child...but also as an adult....and where you are made to feel 'powerless' can greatly affect how one relates to 'others' in general...... I know that I am surprised that even after over 15 yrs since the incident with nephew...I have not forgotten....and that it has somehow 'marked' me.....

I know that my S, not wanting to see me in pain, thought he was helping by pressuring me to 'get over it'..... which really didn't help....it actually prolonged it.....

....so BB.... if you can just 'be there' for your S...and not be 'impatient'.... let her know that whatever it takes....however long it takes... you'll be there for her.....I think that would help

.....the affects of sexual abuse should not be underestimated..... they are devastating...... and I would think the wounds take a long time to heal.... if ever!

....but I am always amazed at how the human spirit manages to 'cope' somehow, inspite of it all.....

No, I don't believe there is much more than , listening and being supportive ,or being pro-active

or even being empathetic.

Lets face it, if it's happened to you...you know it.

Sexual abuse cannot be classified or clarified by digital/penile penetration.

It is betrayal in its most ****** form


but, it is

an experience that can be overcome.

I recall/remember the first time I saw my first son, he was just a few seconds old, pink and wrinkly, a little bit smelly, crusty even, big grey eyes with a bad crew cut. I promised him, no-one would ever harm him.

So far so good, with the exception of life itself.


We learn, we grow

We live




Max

I appreciate the responses and will add my own when I have time later today.

Bump for uniman from the emotional needs forum.

Bitbucket,

Support, patience, understanding, listening, empathy and especially validation of your W’s feelings are indeed the best gift you can give to her regarding this – bless you for doing this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I’m glad your W received IC for her CSA issues – IC is an absolute MUST for people who have been abused as children and very critical (especially for CSA survivors). I remember the therapy I received from a Christian friend & counselor and the unconditional love, support and understanding I received from my H at the time (and still receive from him) was the most helpful to me. After I started counseling and came out with the whole sexual abuse thing, I also confided in my mother and 3 of my very close woman friends and this was very helpful too.

I just want to point out that, even though your W's stepfather had not actually physically succeeded in molesting your W, the fact that he tried to molest her and threaten her with it was serious enough and just as emotionally and mentally traumatic and damaging for a child as the actual act of sexual abuse itself. Add the fact that you W's mother force her to spend time with this man while her mother knows about his previous attempts make the damage and betrayal so more severe. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Victims of CSA and betrayal by one or either of the parents usually have deep settled self-esteem and self confidence issues (even though they might not even be aware of it themselves) and therefore it’s important for them to be loved, surrounded and supported by people who really, really care for them and have their best interest at heart. If victims of abuse feel accepted, heard and understood by people who care, it can help a great deal in restoring their self-esteems and to feel worthy again. Most importantly survivors of abuse and such betrayal need to learn to accept themselves and love themselves.

Even though I feel recovered from my CSA and have received IC a few years ago, I still have self-esteem and self confidence issues I struggle with from time to time. It’s an ongoing process which is often a life long process for CSA survivors. That’s why in spite of unconditional love, support and understanding you can continue to give to your W, the other thing I can recommend you to do is encouraging her to read books which can uplift her and help to give her more self-understanding.

For me, the reading of psychological, spiritual and religious books was (and still is) very helpful in my search for self-understanding and to understand how I was unconsciously affected by what happened in my childhood and to take steps to help me further overcome those things and move further beyond it. The most recent helpful book I’ve read was “Beauty for Ashes” by Joyce Meyer. (Joyce Meyer was emotionally, physically, mentally and sexually abused as a child herself and today she is writing books, have her own TV and radio program and giving seminars and speeches all over the world to help other people. Just as your W, Joce Meyer was betrayed by her mother too).

Lastly but most importantly: The most important thing I think will help your W to move beyond her pain and anger towards her mother’s betrayal and start the healing process on this, will be for her to confront her mother and address these issues with her (and you can again assist your W by encouraging her and support her through this process).

I stayed silent about my CSA for more than 25 years and didn’t tell anyone (except my H before we’ve got married). For years I've tried to forget & forgive but I failed – the anger, hurt & grief inside of me and towards the 2 people who have stolen my childhood innocence away from me was just too big… I also felt betrayed by my father who molested me himself and never confronted his brother when I finally told him about the incest I suffered at the hands of his brother… Later on my father even blamed, criticized and resented me for telling him about his brother’s abuse – and in some ways this was even a bigger betrayal for me than the actual molestation by my father himself…and those feelings of hurt, anger and disappointment towards my father was growing like a cancer inside of me... Therefore I have much understanding for your W's pain and resentment towards her mother.

This is why some years later, I’ve finally decided to get professional help and realized the ONLY way I could get past the anger and start the healing process (especially towards my father) would be to CONFRONT my abusers (either in writing or face-to-face). I did both – first the letters and then face-to-face. It was the most difficult and scaring thing I ever did, but it worked for me and helped to “release” the feelings of anger, grief, pain and other negative emotions I harbored inside myself for so long towards both my father and uncle… After this I could also start to forgive them – something I thought would never happen.

The above worked for me and I don’t suggest or imply that your W must necessarily do the same, but should she ever consider confronting her mother (and her past abuser if she hasn’t done it yet), it will be very helpful if she can do it with the help, guidance and support of a professional counselor (maybe the same counsellor than before). She can also get hold of the book ”Toxic Parents” by Dr Susan Forward. This book was very helpful to me and I can highly recommend it for your W should she ever decide to confront her mother. The book will serve as a self-help guide and explain step-by-step what actions to take and how to prepare herself for the 'confrontation’ of the abuser(s) or the people who have betrayed her (in you W’s case her mother). Even if your W decides to not confront her mother, the above book by Dr Forward will still be very helpful to her. Maybe you can buy the book and give it to her to read.

Suzet,
I was curious why bb bumped this up for Uniman, so I just read his thread in EN's. YIKES! I posted to him, but I'm really tired today, so I don't think I'm expressing myself very well. If you have time, could you maybe chime in? Thanks.

Please excuse the T/J bb. Hope you're doing well.

--SC

Smartcookie, I just noticed your post. I'm on my way to leave from work, so I will take a look at that thread tomorrow and see where I can help.

Take care,
Suzet

Again, I really appreciate all the responses. I would have posted last night but the storm blew an air conditioner at work and I had to shut down 30+ servers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My W doesn't seem to be visibly struggling with this issue. Like I said, she had 3-4 years of IC, and stopped because she felt like she had dealt with everything. She does trigger sometimes, or sometimes she just brings it up and wants to talk about it. I really wanted to know if I could do anything besides listen and be supportive, but it doesn't sound like it. At some point I expect she will confront her mom, but I don't know if that will be before or after our second child comes along.

I will admit that after having been on this site for several months, I am scared to death that at some point in the future she might have an A. I have seen countless posts that begin 'I never thought I would have an A', or 'My WW never said anything was wrong'. When you read a little farther, more often than not there was CSA in there somewhere, at least where you're dealing with a WW.

I know that psychological trauma results from CSA, but I can't say I fully understand it. I haven't "been there" and I'm not a psychologist. I don't understand how CSA can potentially re-wire your brain to somehow make an A more acceptable.

Can anyone help with that?

Yes, I can help with that. Since I’m a FWW myself, I’ve researched and read up on this topic a lot. I think “acceptable” is the wrong word to use here. Yes, CSA can create many potential vulnerabilities/weaknesses in the survivor which can make them more prone or vulnerable for an A, but these weaknesses/vulnerabilities will never make any A “acceptable” – it can just help to explain (not justify or rationalize) what made such a person vulnerable/weak for an A in the first place. Yes, CSA can potentially re-wire the brain of the person, but in the sense that a CSA survivor are more prone to psychiatric/mental disorders (like depression, anxiety etc.) in their adult life. New research studies have shown that specifically women who were sexually or physically abused as children may have alterations in their brain chemistry that make them prone to depression and anxiety. Increased hormonal responses to stress may explain why women who were abused as children are at high risk of major depression and anxiety disorders. And as you know depression (and associated self-esteem issues) often plays a big role in infidelity.

Bitbucket, in stead of elaborating on this further, I want you to read the following thread (just click on the link) – you will find it very informative:

Sex Abuse and Infidelity- Some Thoughts

You will see on the above thread I’ve send a post with some links. If you click on my first link in that post, it will take you to another post with links which will shed extra light on this topic and your question above e.g. the possible connection between infidelity and CSA.

Short threadjack:

Smartcookie, I've just send a post on Uniman's thread. That thread (and Uniman's attitude on his W's CSA) was very upsetting for me to read. So I hope I was not too harsh on him or that he will perceive my post as uncaring!

End of threadjack.

'acceptable' was a really poor choice of words on my part, but I think you caught the gist of what I was trying to express.

I read that thread some time ago - in fact, I was looking for it before I created this thread. Stunned-dad-fast-recovering's story scared the bejeezus out of me, and it was that story, plus what I knew of SC's situation, that prompted me to start this thread in the first place.

I'll read and digest your other links. Expect more stupid questions :P

Yes, I did understand what you were trying to say.

Bitbucket, on one my links on that thread you will find a link to another thread where you will get more info/posts from Stunned-dad and some of the things he had to say. The name of the thread is “For Sexual abuse survivors who are WS”.

Bitbucket, I don’t think you have to worry too much that your W will become involved in infideltiy. Yes, she might have some weaknesses/vulnerabilities which might make her more vulnerable to have an A, but the fact that she has already addressed her issues in IC makes a BIG difference. Also, if she takes steps to protect herself against weaknesses/vulnerabilities she migh have and keep healthy boundaries with the opposite sex, you don't have any reason to worry. Just remember that most CSA survivors who become involved in A’s usually start to address their childhood issues only after (or during) their infidelity. This usually happens because in most cases CSA survivors suppress their childhood issues for years before those issues surfaced again and get triggered by certain circumstances like infidelity. This was the case with me. OM and my involvement with him was the ‘catalyst’ that on the end forced me to go into IC and explore & resolve all my issues around childhood.

You’re welcome! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If you have any questions I will not be available for the rest of the day (I’m knocking off from work in a few minutes), but if you have more questions post it and I will attend to it tomorrow.

bb,
I am a CSA survivor and I would like to recommend a book for you that I got for my husband,

What About Me? A Guide for Men Helping Female Partners Deal with Childhood Sexual Abuse
by Grant Cameron

There are many more books at Amazon dealing with this subject.

Bitbucket, did you read those links and did you find it helpful?

Fraggles, the book you suggested sound very good. I want to ask you a favor – please post your book suggestion also to uniman on Emotional Needs. I can also post the book suggestion to his thread, but since you’ve bought the book for your H and have probably read the book yourself, it will be better if the suggestion comes from you.

Thanks,
Suzet

Unfortunately, no...I was 'promoted' at work recently - which means I get to head up a major effort in addition to my regular work. Having been laid off twice before, I can say this is a problem I don't mind having!

But the off hours I have are far fewer these days, and I'm spending them with my W and son. She hasn't triggered since I started the thread, and she has seemed really happy this week. Let's just say that my SF EN has been completely satisfied this week, for the first time since we got married...so I am pretty content myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'll do what I can to look at those links tomorrow - the information is very important - but we're going to the beach in the morning, and I think the rest of the day will be housework.

I have just read too much crap.

Child molestation is one ****** of a serious crime.

and damm those **edit** to ******

but as survivors

Lets get a grip

Where I am coming from here/or at least read from here/ is that it is OK for someone who has experienced the most dismal...is that well ****** HAVING AN AFFAIF IS OK....

crud it is...

Max