It's been a fair amount of time since I've posted....been living life, dating some, learning alot. In short--RECOVERING! I've been divorced now for 2 years and about 2 months. I was married 10 yrs before the divorce. 5 yrs before her affair. I stayed with her another 5 - then she divorced me after much counseling & her inability to work through her issues & make a renewed commitment, etc.

I want to share some observations I've made & see how the rest feel & believe?

1. There is an enormous pressure out in the dating world to "fix" the singleness "problem" by fast-tracking to a committed pre-mariage (at least) relationship. People want exclusivity NOW!! I've said goodby to several in the past year because they wouldn't allow me as a man to set a pace for the relationship that I was comfortable with in light of ongoing healing, recovery for both of us, etc.

2. A big part of compatibility I'm finding is simply discovering someone who is willing to do a relationship at the same pace I am. Let me explain. This will be my 3rd marriage (IF it occurs). I've been burned twice. This WILL be my last marriage. I WILL get it right as much as I lies in my power by leading with my head more than my heart; pursuing friendship over romance (save more romance for marriage years is my motto); in short --> doing my due diligence.

3. I recognize that part of my problem is also how much I was in love with my ex. While I can honestly state I'm over her in the sense of I don't pursue her or want her back - if she came to me & asked to come back now it wouldn't happen, etc. Yet, she was my first true & real love. I adored that women!! I fell head over heels deeply in love with her for 10+ years. So now I'm faced with big questions:

* Is it possible to fall deeply in love more than once? Please understand - this woman had my heart as the love of my life!!

* The first time for true love for me was when I was about 34. I'm 47 now. What role does age have if any in that head-over-heels sweep me off my feet sort of experience?

* Is it even appropriate to expect & look for the same thing again?

* Or does true love also come "softly", quietly, with time & great friendship?

* Do I need to be willing to settle for a friendly, companionship, old & familiar kind of "love" vs the heart-stopping I can't wait to see her again & bring her gifts & do spectacular things to show her I deeply care type of love? Is that "settling" after all??

4. Now to a tricky delicate topic: And PLEASE don't label me as shallow - I'm going to take a risk here & be transparently honest & say some things most men would like to say, but may not have the courage to because of seeming shallow. Men are VERY visual creatures. That's how we're made. So on to it: None of us are getting any younger. Most of us don't age so gracefully. My ex was 28 when I met her. She was VERY beautiful - about the prime of her life. That certainly plays a role in attraction & love. I don't see that happening again either as now at 47, I'm selecting from a pool of women who just don't have the prime of life appearance any more. To balance it out: I don't either. (Although for me, God blessed me with a very youthful appearance & good physique. I'm also a vegetarian & healthful lifestyle practioner, so most folks put me about mid 30s in appearance.)

So - to my question: At 47, am I going to have to refocus further away from appearance as a part of my attraction package? How do I change my basic attraction formula down deep inside?

Again, to help balance - here's what I believe & know:
* The most beautiful woman I loved hurt me more than anyone ever has.
* I truly am aware that beauty is FAR more than skin deep. * I also recognize that the real "adornment" is of the heart, not the body.
* Age provides a different sense of beauty.
* Friendship trumps sex ultimately as life's greatest LASTING pleasure.

Well, thanks for reading this. I look forward to your response. Just free-wheeling here with my thoughts & wanting to bounce stuff off this group.

Kind Regards,
High Flight

lots of good thoughts... let me give my 2 cents worth..

i am a 35 year old woman so don't know how much help i will be! but can give you a woman's perspective.

i have been away from ex for a year and a half now. i have not really dove into the dating pool. i have done some dating since we have been apart. but nothing that i would want to pursue something serious with. been using the time to finish my degree, get all my ducks in a row in my life after marriage, etc... you know, have my life exactly the way i want it. i am getting to know someone now on a really deep level and we shall see where it goes. wasn't looking for it, but it is here and i am going with it because i am ready to and want to.

anyway, the exlusivity thing. for me, i personally cannot date a bunch of people at once. i like to focus my attention on one person at a time. and honestly, i don't have time with work and kids and college to be juggling dates. doesn't mean if i date someone i expect them to be the same. even with the man i am getting to know now.. it is going on 4 months. i am not dating anyone else or getting to know anyone else, my choice. i want to focus in on him right now. BUT, i told him i do not expect nor can i expect him to do the same. when he is ready to be exclusive, when WE are ready to take this to the next level, he will. i'm not saying he is out there with different women every night, not at all, but i cannot expect him to be exclusive with me at this point. i don't think that would be a fair thing to ask.

falling deeply in love... well, i have NEVER been deeply in love and I am 35. I am waiting for that and longing for that. My next partner I WILL be deeply in love with. So, for me to answer if you can fall deeply in love again with someone else after you have all ready had that, I do not know. I would think you could. The world is full of people, I would think it is possible to fall deeply in love again.

yes, you men are visual, god love ya! because i know this, i try to keep myself looking as good as i can. i do it for me, i do it for my partner to be proud of me. women in their 40's can still look great. i plan to! but go for the whole picture like you said. i know many women who are beautiful on the outside and evil on the inside. i like to think i am beautiful outer and inner. i am a very laid back person, very caring and loving and giving. i also happen to take a lot of pride in my appearance. i want to be the WHOLE package for someone. i think women like me sometimes are a hard find! lol are you going to find a woman in their 40's to compare to a woman in their 20's?? probably not. i am 35 and although i think i look really good, and i do the excercise, i tan, do the whole high maintenance thing, i am not 20 years old. most people think i am in my mid to high 20's, i'll take that! but that also just comes from good genes and taking care of myself. i think i look really good for 35, but don't expect me to be 20. you can have the whole picture i believe at any age.

there have got to be women out there who will move at your pace. you just have to find them. are you around women in their 40's who are desperately not wanting to be alone? feeling the need to find a husband so as not to hit 50 alone or something? you need to find women who are ok with being along,they will move at your pace. i am fine with being without a partner. i basically didn't even have a partner in marriage. i have always been hightly motivated, and taken care of myself. i can live alone, not be in a relationship and function just fine. i long for good companionship don't get me wrong... but i don't have to have a man in my life. thus, i am willing to go at whatever pace a man needs. i can go slowly because i am ok alone. i can move more quickly because i am at this point ready for a relationship. i am good either way.

that's my input highflight... don't know if it helps! and don't we all want to do it right the next time around! if and when i ever get married again it sure as h*ll WILL be the last time i do it! lol mlhb

Thanks for taking the time to read & reply MLHB.

Let me affirm a couple of things. Keep taking care of yourself, both physically & mentally. That's what IS attractive to a good man. Thanks for being willing to go at a reasonable pace & not freak out to get remarried. Thanks for being willing to make it right next time around.

I'm reflecting more. Seems like a common denominator in some of the relationships I've had in the past year is that they're all from another country / culture. 2 Brazilians. 1 Chinese. 1 Korean. Mind you, none of them were committed exclusive relationships. There definitely is a different "agenda" in these women. Cultural thing? Different mindset?

I think one of the Brazilians said this to me. "American men are some of the most desirable, because they are less likely to be dictators, less tendency to have affairs, usually more financially secure, more helpful at home with less of a mind that the woman is the servant of the home."

So maybe that's what I've been experiencing??? An urgency to trap a good ole American guy who has some $$$, doesn't run around, can be found in the kitchen, etc. hahaha

well, maybe there are cultural differences... lol

what's wrong with us good old american women? haha

like the mystique and sexiness of the foriegn women there high flight? lol

mlhb

Nope!! LOL Actually I prefer American good ole girl next door types. It just seems I haven't met many of those. Trust me, in the cases I've seen, the foreign women are not preferable.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
High Flight

High Flight,

After having gone through a bad experience with my WS (now ex), I do not think that I'm capable of falling in love again in the same way that I did before. I've lost some of my innocence in that regards. Sure, I can fall in love again and I hope I do, but I will approach it with much more caution than before and that will affect the overall "falling in love" experience. I'm different now. I've learned lessons no one should have to learn, especially not from the person they took vows with, but it is what it is. I hope you feel completely, deeply in love again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As far as physical attraction goes... well, you cannot change what you are attracted to and most men are visual. That being said, the MB stuff would say that someone who meets your ENs will become incredibly attractive to you. Now, I understand that there may be limits as to the physical appearance of someone who could inspire you even if they did meet your ENs. All I'm saying is that, regardles of anyone's age, we should all keep an open mind and get to know people who aren't our physical ideals. That average looking person could become the love of your life.

On a related topic of older men dating younger women. I guess I still qualify as a younger women, so I would like to caution you against this no matter how much the younger woman professes to want to be with you. From what I've observed, there are other motives lurking and it's not flattering to either party.

So, I would just say to focus on both the inside and the outside of the women you meet and see if you think they would meet your top ENs on a long-term basis.

Hello HF,

Glad to see you around again.Not sure if I missed it but what happened to the lady you were dating before? If I am remembering correctly she was cheated on too and you kind of jumped in somewhat quickly with her? Ring a bell?

Anyway,to put in my 2 cents as well about the latter portions of your post:



I don't think this is being shallow unless all you did look for in a woman was how "beautiful" she appeared outside.If that were true for all men,people like Rod Stewart wouldn't divorce the gorgeous models they marry.That definitely is not all that life is about.But appearance is important to many,myself included.I'm 40 and I feel like I look great.I'm in great shape and am taking good care of myself after being in limbo for a long period going through the A and D.I get told all the time that I couldn't possibly have 3 kids as I look way too young.Comments like that are fun and feel good.Women can be very visual too.I am, not just in men but also in everything.I can be drawn to a certain product at a store just by how it's presented.Anyway,"prime of life" looks change for everyone so I think we should stop looking at numbers/ages and more how one takes care of themselves and how they feel about themselves.40 is supposed to be the new 30 right? lol We live longer now more than ever and have better healthcare,etc.And I feel so much more smarter and experienced than in my 20's.I wouldn't change a thing about me.



*The man I loved the most in the world,the one who made me weak in the knees,had my heart and whom I thought I would grow old with also hurt me like no other too.I would never take him back.

*Beauty is much deeper than outward appearances.I think once we start to love someone for who they are and how they treat us the things that may not have appeared attractive to us intially fade away and we see nothing but the one we love.

*The beauty I see in myself now is a lot less about the clothes I wear,the make-up and hair,etc(20's) but more about the person I want to be and am.

*Friendship trumps sex.I agree because when it comes right down to the serious issues in life,I want my friend there to help me,not someone who thinks that sex is the most important part of a relationship.

I hope you can experience love again.As much as I remember that deep in love feeling and how wonderful it was,I wouldn't trade that short period for the long lasting deep love that comes with time and care and a respect for one another that grows over the years.I thought I had that, but apparently not.It's a sick feeling after so so many years to have that security ripped away from you.But I am having a grand time being on my own.I would like to find a nice guy sometime,someday if he can live up to my standards.Lol ( I'm not dating yet) But either way,I feel good about life again.I am blessed.

i agree with a lot of this... especially about when the inside is beautiful it makes the outside look even more beautiful and appealing.

i was so drawn the outside of my ex i never took the time to know the inside. his insides are very ugly and thus he is no longer attractive to me on the outside. the man i am getting to know now, i thought was attractive from the start, but his insides, his values, his morals, his goals, everything on the inside.. he is not only attractive to me now, but incredibly hot! and he has said the same about me. it is totally, totally the whole picture that matters. i wish everyone could get that! mlhb

i'll keep my eyes open for a good old american girl next door type for ya high flight! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

pilots are usually a pretty good catch... shouldn't be too hard to find you one! lol
mlhb

I have to be quick...between flights. But this is good stuff. I'm benefiting from what you all are saying. Keep it coming.

Thanks nlhb!!! I'll take all the MB help I can get!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Clearly it's a common dream to deeply experience love again. I hear that coming through from many of you.

Carry on!!

hey highflight, maybe you'll even meet someone from this board.... i'm getting to know someone i met here. (on the divorced/dating side... not in the general area or someone who was trying to save their marriage! no no no....)

i think all the women here would be a great catch! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

mlhb

Hi American Beauty! Thanks for the thoughts. To your question. She & I have remained in a relationship for over 1 yr now. We are certainly friends & in some ways more now. But there are a couple of large obstacles to moving forward:

1. She wants kids. I don't want any more.
2. We both have excellent careers. Neither of us should have to move or give up our jobs. Neither of us want to. We live 150 miles apart. So it will be an on-going distant relationship if we go further with it. We can see each other most weekends & occasionally during the week, but not as much as a normal couple would. How will this play long term going forward?
3. I am attracted to her, but not overwhelmingly so. She's a terrific person, but also just not a homerun for me. But am I still recovering? Sometimes I have evidence I am. I know she is too. Only just over 1 yr for her since her divorce. So there's NO RUSH!!

Anyway, that's the short version.

I've said goodby to at least 3 others who were seriously interested in a LTR. They wanted to fast track to marriage pretty much.

The above lady isn't trying to fast track me -- which is why I'm still seeing her some.

This post divorce dating world is terribly complex at times...

wow HF, that is quite a situation to be in...

it sounds to me like you like spending time with her but are still open as well to meeting other women? someone who may come along and more so "sweep you off your feet" and be more on the same page with you? am i observing correctly?

the children thing is a big one HF... if you def don't want anymore and she def does... i see no way your relationship can go ahead any further. not fair to you or to her. she should be spending time with a potential mate who can fill that need for her. maybe still spend time with her but i don't see how either one of you could be exclusive with this elephant in the middle of the room so to speak...
and if the distance is non negotiable too... again... i am not sure i would be looking at her as a forever relationship. it is almost like i want to say why prolong a relationship that is not going to go any farther, but again, it sounds as though you are not into being exlusive with her, you are open to meeting others, and as i said, someone who is on the same page as you are.

in my sitch we have talked about many things. i am 35, he is 36. i have 2 children, he has one. he has said he would like one more or that he could be good with someone who has kids as his "having more kids".. i am open either way. i will accept someones child, and i am open to discussion of one more, when my degree is done and i have an established position, if with this man or a different one (we are no where that stage yet of those decisions! LOL) but if he really wanted more kids and i was adament that i wanted no more, i would not have continued on with him because that is not fair to him. the distance thing: we live very far apart. i am willing to be relocateable should this work into something serious. if i was not i would not have bothered continuing to get to know this man... in my mind there would be no point... do you see what i am saying?

so, i don't envy the spot you are in right now. it is hard once there are some feelings involved. we kind of answered some of these questions at the get go before any feelings were involved. that way, if certain answers were certain answers i and he could see if there was really any point in continuing on.

hope that helps highflight....
mlhb

I'm responding to the original post without reading any of the subsequent dialogue, because I don't at the moment have time to read them first, and if I don't get this out now I don't know if it will happen. Maybe that's just as well, since it means my personal reaction will be uninfluenced by other viewpoints...

There is an enormous pressure out in the dating world to "fix" the singleness "problem" by fast-tracking to a committed pre-mariage (at least) relationship. People want exclusivity NOW!!...

Yep, I've noticed that too. In my opinion, it's both absurd and sad.

...I WILL get it right as much as I lies in my power by leading with my head more than my heart; pursuing friendship over romance (save more romance for marriage years is my motto)...

Good luck. "Friendship first" seems to be an excellent way of ensuring "friendship only" in the majority of cases.

I recognize that part of my problem is also how much I was in love with my ex. While I can honestly state I'm over her in the sense of I don't pursue her or want her back - if she came to me & asked to come back now it wouldn't happen, etc. Yet, she was my first true & real love. I adored that women!! I fell head over heels deeply in love with her for 10+ years.

I can relate completely. I too was married for more than ten years to my first love, with whom I remained "head over heels deeply in love" that entire time and long past it. And I too don't want her back.

Is it possible to fall deeply in love more than once?

Speaking from experience, yes.

What role does age have if any in that head-over-heels sweep me off my feet sort of experience?

I'm in my forties too. So far, I've seen no indication that age plays any role.

Is it even appropriate to expect & look for the same thing again?

Hmm. The same thing? Probably not. But I'm not interested in any relationship that isn't of any equally high order. This I am convinced is possible (by extrapolation from personal experience), albeit unlikely.

Or does true love also come "softly", quietly, with time & great friendship?

I've experienced "instant attraction" - but never with anyone in whom I had a serious interest. The real thing took time and knowledge to build.

Do I need to be willing to settle for a friendly, companionship, old & familiar kind of "love" vs the heart-stopping I can't wait to see her again & bring her gifts & do spectacular things to show her I deeply care type of love? Is that "settling" after all??

I think it's "settling" only if you believe it to be. I also believe the deep romance can be sustained, although it takes special and unusual circumstances for this to happen automatically. (In other words, you've got to work at it.)

How do I change my basic attraction formula down deep inside?

This bothers me too. I'm kind of depending on your observation that "Age provides a different sense of beauty." I've certainly noticed that the women who attract my attention at this time in my life mostly tend to be in their thirties - and like you I could easily pass for ten years younger than my calendar age, so this doesn't seem to be completely inappropriate to me, especially since I still find the idea of a family to be appealing. By and large, I tend to see younger women as "kids" - and that's not the kind of relationship I'm be interested in.

However, I'm not sure how confidently this trend can be extrapolated into the future. Although to be honest, I know very few women my own age. Most of my female acquaintances are either mid-twenties to mid-thirties, or are late-forties or older. And of those few I know in their forties, my interest is decidedly non-romantic. It's not so much their appearance as their outlook on life, which is so much less exploratory than my own. (To be sure, there are exceptions - but those are all married women, which may or may not signify something.)

Well you might have guessed that someone would pick this out,so let it be me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am 40.I consider myself to be adventurous and boy would I love to go to Europe and explore those lands.My ex got to do all that for a "business" trip instead of what was to be our 3/4 week family vacation.We were to go to France,Italy,St.Petersburg Russia and a short stop in Greece.Who knows if I'll get there now,I'll have to plan way ahead I suppose.Anyway,there are many women this age, not married, who like to do/experience different,fun things.I guess I'm not sure what you mean completely.

All I know is that after years of being the SAHM and holding down the fort and watching my ex go from place to place for "work" while I stayed home,I am now going to travel and see as much as I can.We've only got one life and I want to start seeing more of this world! All the stuff I put off because of him:

A) "We can't afford it." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> This from a man who makes a high 6 figure salary.

B) "We don't have the time."

C) "I have to work".

D) "I'm not really interested in those things."

Bah

I love to travel & explore, and as a low 40 woman, I'd jump at the chance. But, I have an uncooperative X who will not take his children for more than 2 nights in a row. So, those weekend romps away are out.
I have enough frequent flier miles to get me to Europe and back about 5 times, but no time to use them.
I get a week off when X takes the girls on vacation, and by then, I'm broke and can't pull it together to go anywhere.

Anyone want to start a vacation club with me. I have the last week of August free. (Although he won't tell me when he's bringing them back. Ask him to keep them you say? He won't. I've tried).
A friend wants to go to Tibet. It's only a 48 hour train ride from Beijing. As a mom, I'm thinking this is a good idea. I can sleep on the 24 hour flight to Beijing, then sleep for 2 days each way on the train ride. I may make up the sleep I've lost for almost one year in just one trip.

I'm constantly searching travel sites for exciting places to go, knowing that I don't have the time now. Except that week in August. Hmmm. Any ideas for me?

MLHB, where do you live? In the city or the burbs on NYC?

It stung me too AM~~However, this is how I pretty much feel most men view women in there 40's. I take care of myself, exercise, etc....but, I am 43.

Glad things are going well for you HF! Nice to see you around again. You too Gnome!

Karona

Sounds exciting Newly!

Your x is a real gem! Tell me again, why did you let him go?

K!

oh newly... wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy upstate ny.... like by canada honey! lol never even been to nyc! it is a good 6 or 7 hour drive from where i live. mlhb