where do i begin?...s and i met a few yrs ago on an internet dating site...after much correspondence we met and have been together every since...recently planning to build a home and a future in marriage together...both of us are from dysfunctional homes...his remains intact ...mine was destroyed by a cheating father...can you say trust issues boys and girls?...we are very involved in each other's lives and families...both are products of divorce due to infidelity by our partner's and have children from those marriages...right from the beginning of our relationship s asked me if i had ever swung sexually....to which i said "****** no!"...i just never understood why people who love and care about each other could "give" their partner to another man or woman and derive sexual fulfillment from it....however, with his encouragement i did try to understand it and even went on to arrange a few meetings with other couples to try it out...i was not very comfortable with it and pretty much held up the swinging for everyone (nothing happened)....s conceded and said ok, no more of that...s and i have amazing chemistry and we often say we should've been siblings instead of lovers!...and our sex life has never been lacking to my knowledge (is that tmi?)...recently, i found out that s has been swinging for months with couples from a swinging website...i was shocked to find numerous emails and im's from women he had sexually chatted with or had had sex with...one even claiming that she loved him...and she lives in the same town i do!! ....and she is married!!!....found out these people had no knowledge s was "attached"....being a scorned woman has never been easy for me so i blew the whole thing wide open....exposing him to everyone on this website and to our families as well....all the kids are unknowing except an 18 yr old daughter who is enraged by the betrayal as well...when confronted s informed me that i was not meeting his needs in the bedroom...we came up with maybe 4 times i told him no either because i had to get ready for work or was sleeping...he accepts fault for what he has done and tells me he feels terrible for it....conceded that he has a sex addiction and that we need help...claims that he adores me and wants to have a life with me...in hindsight our turbulent times mostly occurred during his swinging dates...he even swung while i was recovering from a major surgery he wanted to "take care of me after"..and had a raging infection when sex resumed!!!...the effects of the lying and manipulation have had far reaching effects and i know everyone will think i'm nuts for staying with him....everyone who knows me knows that i despise cheating and lying and will tolerate neither... never have.....thing is i do adore s and i love him enough to go through the healing process with him and i know i will face humiliation and misunderstanding by both of our families....i am terrified and hurt beyond belief....s actually found mb and suggested it....after reading i can see that mb is straight up and for real....any insight would be helpful since no one else is going to be able to understand any of it....especially since it doesn't just involve an affair but a not very accepted lifestyle....thanks for listening....j

I have spent all day with s talking about how to mend our relationship and how we will both weather this terrible storm we are going through...i believed everything he told me...that he wanted help...knew he had a problem....and would do ANYTHING...his capital letters...he even joined mb and posted...as much as i wanted to believe him i had to confirm my suspicions (he will continue to do this behind my back all the while saying he isn't) and i just found out that he has lied to me again...I am trying to remain calm but I am steaming mad...one of his swinger friends confirmed he is still on the website...and he blocked me from the im he used for it...does he think I'm a fool?.. should i just let this be and move on?...i am emotionally exhausted and don't know how much more i can take!!!

Welcome, Un...

I think I posted to s tonight, though I won't assume.

You aren't crazy for your choices...you aren't wrong for what you feel...what you think...what you believe...all those are yours, and only yours.

I saw something in your post..that you blended two families, not married...and now see how greatly your DD18 is affected...this was your choice to do, to make a false covenant before you had a covenant...

I'm not bashing...my desire is to douse some reality into this very complicated situation...and to show a similarity between you both...living as if real isn't real...and no, I don't think having gotten married before living together would have prevented s to not do what he did...

Living authentically is powerful. When you said you do not tolerate lying or cheating...was that authentic? Or wishful? I'm probing here, because changing your life, completely, isn't about leaving s...it is choosing how you want to live and what you want to live by...

Have you had IC (individual counseling) for your childhood and previous marital issues? Have you read all of Harley's articles on this website--The Love Bank, Rules of Marriage, Love Busters and Emotional Needs? I ask because educating yourself for yourself will help in this time of crisis...where what you thought was real isn't...and what you want to be real isn't...and well, where it is really hard to know real right now.

Would that be where you're at?

You sound strong, articulate, and very human. The power I'm speaking of isn't within character or personality...the ability to live authentically is within every human; has to be chosen.

There's a lot to learn here...reading a lot of posts...I direct s to look up AskMe, a wonderful poster well versed in sexual addiction (SA)...and there are many threads on SA...it's not about SF (sexual fulfillment...an emotional need)...as s said...and your post is about infidelity...which is about fantasy...and self-deceit.

It is a wayward state of mind...WS...Wayward Spouse...in your case, boyfriend? Fiance? This is about betrayal and infidelity...be honest with yourself about that first...and then stay honest with yourself, every step of the way.

We're here for you. You're not alone.

LA

lovinganyway...i just wanted to clarify that s and i do not live together...THAT is the choice we made for our children...dd18 recently walked in on him during a family vacation to discover his computer antics...i understand that my reality is all messed up right now...that's why i'm here!!!... i guess what i should've said is i have never tolerated lying or cheating...if i didn't love him better than sugar i definitely wouldn't be here...it'd be easier to walk away at this point but i remain committed to this relationship....j

Hey, you caught me assuming! Sorry 'bout that...

Better than sugar? To me, that's a heckuvalot.

I'm not asking for your shoulds, UN...honestly...I was asking for your honesty in dealing with what is...to help with the chaos, pain and anger you are feeling.

I am also hoping you love yourself a lot, to be here...to find out you're not alone or crazy. Where your choices are respected...they're yours.

Have you heard of www.recoverynation.com? There's a good partner program there, if you wanted to check it out, for SA's.

I offer it because you're choosing to remain committed to this relationship...and to educate yourself gives you more choices, understanding and information.

Personally, I think walking away is really hard, too...I'm behind your choice. Know how large it is...

LA

Hi, Unsuspectinginla,

I'm so sorry that you're in this situation, and glad that LovingAnyway is responding to you. She will give you good advice.

I believe I read your fiancee's post, and he does sound so remorseful. I believe that he does love you very much, but he does need to get into recovery for his SA issue.

That MUST be done, IMO, before you can even think of setting a wedding date. Are you willing to wait and stand by him for a few YEARS, while he works to get past the SA issue? If you are able to do this, he has indeed found a treasure in you. I do hope that he is sincere in wanting to cure his sexual addiction, but I'm sure that it won't be easy.

Is he willing to be totally accountable to you? To give you all his passwords and access to his email and cellphone? Would he allow you to put a keylogger on his computer? Is he willing to eliminate any possible opportunity to cheat? Is he going to IC for his addiction? I think that his ACTIONS should determine whether you are willing to wait for him to beat his addiction before you marry him.

I sincerely hope that things do work out for you.

thank you for all your posts...s and i continue to talk about the path we must take to beat this sa...to further complicate things he works out of the country for 45 days at a time and then is home for 30...recoverynation.com is something i think could work for us since much of his access is through the internet...lady, i agree that i must advance based on his actions and i know that is a scarey place given the sa and also the unknown...i didn't know about the keylogger thing...what is that?..where i can track the sites he's visiting on his puter?...where can i find this?...he's already given me all his passwords and i have viewed the requests to delete his profiles from the sex sites and he destroyed the im he was keeping contact with all these people with...i believe he is sincere in his desire to be free of the sa and focus on a healthy relationship...i believe i am the woman of his dreams (his words) but i can't shake the feeling that this is going to happen again...i wish i had more trust right now but i just don't...i'm trying not to let it eat me alive...i am willing to stand by his side as long as i see healthy choices and a committment to abstinence from the sa issues...i do have one concern...is it healthy for me to continue to fill his needs in the sexual arena?...after all i do want to please him and i very much so desire him..don't get me wrong, i am repulsed by what he's done...but i have always and still do want to be his fantasy and his reality in every sense of the word... with him working off like he does i know this will be a huge issue when he returns home...if i hold out then it's seen as "punishment"...if i continue what i have always done then he'll think he's back in my good graces and may begin his antics again even though he assures me this will NEVER (his capitals) happen again... and lemme tell you it's gonna be a while until i am completely trusting and open as i was before...i guess i'm still pretty much confused as to what exactly my role is in his recovery...i know for myself i have a long road ahead of me but i think s and i have something worth fighting for..any help would be greatly appreciated as i remain dazed and confused...j

What if you find out that this is who he really is?

If he enjoys the "lifestyle", then asking him to change for you is fraught with problems. There are some people who don't view this as a SA problem, but a real lifestyle choice. Is he just telling you what he thinks you want to hear?

Since you are not married, I don't think a lot what's been suggested is really appropriate (you having access to all of his dealings), but if that work for him, so be it.

Low

Low...you should know that joining mb and a confession of sa belong solely to s...he has asked me to accompany him on this journey and although the unknown is never a fun thing i love him enough to do whatever is necessary...honestly, as soon as i found all this stuff out i was through... it has only been through tears and prayer that i can even fathom regaining what i thought we had...as for s's sexual orientation?...i will be in a monogamous relationship... if in one at all...after all, we both must remain true to ourselves should we not?....j

This is my point exactly...he needs to make sure his confession and pursuit of change are consistent with who he wants to be...and that he's not doing it for anyone but himself.

Is he clear about his motives for change? Are you?

low, i can't speak for s...he has confessed to suicidal thoughts over his sexual extra curricular activities..social guilt and fear?...i'd say you may have a point given his fixation on the fact that i exposed him to family...as for my motives?...i'd really like my life back...j

Hi ULa,

First, you have to look at this like he were an alcoholic or had any other addiction. MB principles do not work with addicts. The addict needs to complete his own personal recovery before they can attempt relationship recovery. This will take some time, count on at least year IF he's actively involved with a SA (Sexual Addicts) support group and immerges himself completely with a good IC (Individual Councelor).

You say you are committed to the relationship, but I think what you are missing is that you never had the 'relationship' you thought you did. It was a fraud. You were committed to something that didnt exist. He was an active SA, he's lied continually - he's not the man you thought he was. That's a big pill to swallow, all by itself.

So you're kinda rolling the dice, gambling on the type of man he might, possibly, hopefully become. Do you see the difference? You've never seen that man. He probably hasnt, either.

You've got a LONG road ahead of you if you decide to stick with this man. LONG.

You really have to descide if you want to commit the next several years of your life to HIS recovery. Then you have to descide where your boundaries will be.

What do you do when he falls off the wagon? When you find out he's chatting on line? Viewing porn? Cyber-sexing? When he's had sex with someone else? What will your 'commitment' involve/look like? Are you ready to join a SA support group? Get your own IC? This is all terribly hard (I KNOW!), how do you plan on taking care of yourself? Have you read any of the SA books? That might be a good place to start. Patrick Carnes has several, you can get them on line or at any major books store.

Many things on your plate right now. You really must think these things out, because there is so much pain in your future if you descide to stay. You have to manange it. Think about how you want the next five years to go... is this really what you want?

Just my thoughts, I must go back to work now. Please take care of yourself - Dru

You're NOT getting your life back anytime soon with an SA - Dru

A post from Heartmending, on addiction recovery:

drucilla...thank you for reading my post and for your reponses...i understand we have to deal with the sa or we have no future...again s has committed to being completely accountable to me and that in itself is huge....after all the first step is admitting you have a problem...he has done that with me and with everyone here ......this relationship has not been a complete fraud....i know that for sure... yes he's lied and he has had his faults but i have been committed to something that is very real and although i appreciate your opinion it is just that...an opinion... you're right in the fact that all of this is a big pill to swallow but i'm a big girl and am perfectly capable of making decisions for my life...i don't think i'm gambling here drucilla...i know we are capable of restoring our relationship and that we are both committed to doing so...i am learning about sa and formulating a plan for if he falls off the proverbial wagon...and yes, i am involved in a program of my own... s is not only my lover but my friend and i surely would pick a friend up time and time again if they fell....and if in the end that is all i can be to s i will be...and you know what?...i really don't want my life back per se....i want a better life....that's why i am here:)

Hi ULa,

I just wanted you to know what you are up against. You asked for help, I thought I'd lay it out there for you. I noticed that your first post didnt have any specific questions in it... (or paragraphs <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />), is there something specific I could offer?

Admitting the problem is only the first step. I wanted you to know that there are so many more steps. I've been around this block. The worst is not yet behind you, to be sure. He's had this problem for years, long before he met you. The extent is beyond your knowledge, as active SA's arent capable of being open about their problem.

He said he'd do 'anything'... what has he offered? Has he found an SA group? IC?

There was a poster here who's H pulled the SA card on her for years. He'd swear he wanted to quit, that he was ashamed and wanted to end his life. He'd run to church and confess, then she'd catch him a year later. He never committed to IC or SA group - he talked the talk, but he never walked the walk. That's why it's important to get real, long term help.

It's a long road to recovery, just be aware. And get your own support. Think about the questions I asked, have a PLAN for when you catch him again. Read a few SA books, have him read them, too. Best of luck, and please take care - Dru

hi drucilla...my first post came a few days after i found out about all this and i do believe i was still in a complete state of shock...and i am an educated woman with a degree and everything, lol...just hate typing, etc....at work they threaten me to stay away from the copy machine!!...i feel that you are correct in saying the extent of s's problem is beyond my scope of understanding....s had a father who worked away and a sickly mother who didn't have much time for him as a child... could it be he found some mags and comforted himself with them spawning an addiction?....could he be hung up in the oedipal complex since there was no resolution there?...see?...i am pretty knowledgeable but that doesn't make it hurt any less:(....i am currently involved in recovery nation's partner program and am soaking up info on mb site like a sponge....s has agreed to get a diagnosis and see an ic...i have all of his passwords and we will either install a keylogger or spyware onto his computer so that there will be complete accountability....s is incredibly intelligent and i'm sure he can get around all of this with little to no effort if he wants to...my hope is that these things will prompt him to think about the consequences of his actions before he acts....because i WILL find out eventually and he knows the line is drawn...i'm not going to lie and say i'm not worried...i very much so am especially after some time has passed and we slip back into the day to day of life...i can only work on me...i do fear s will become bored with all the "recovery talk" and begin to resent it and possibly return to his porn and swinging ....this is a huge commitment to change and not one that i believe either of us fully understands yet......i just keep pressing on ...remaining committed and open to communication...i do love him and i can't see that changing.....j