What t/d? NOTHING.

Why? Because you should NOT be married or try to stay married to a WS. So the convo should go something like this:

BS: U R right.

WS: About what?

BS: About moving on.

WS: What do you mean?

BS: You have turned yourself from a wife into a WS. It is NOT healthy t/b married to a WS. So it is time to move on. Now go get the paperwork and start separating things in the attic 1st. Take what you brought into the M but not what we got when we were married or together. Not even the gifts.

Ws: Why not?

BS: Because those things were done during our M and for our M. WS' are not for M's so they should not have the benefit of things from the M.

WS: I think you are cruel.

BS: That's a typical WS reaction.

Then walk away. Know that the WS does NOT like it when the BS is right or when the BS tells the WS what t/d. Even if it telling the WS t/d something the WS just asked for.

Crazy? You betcha but it's true.

Try it out. It is a technique called reverse babble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Drives the WS' nuts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That's a good thing.

L.

Thanks guys / girls for input.

I think I've gone full circle and getting Plan A going again.

The OM has physically left and has moved reasonably far away. I know she still talks / texts him and is retaining a "friendship". I can't Plan B this anymore, but I'm far enough down the road now to have strength enough to Plan A again (perhaps properly this time).

Orchid, this will of course involve reverse babble. I have already started using this. I've also delved more deeply into some of Ark^^'s posts. This means however much it creases me, I've got to start listening to her and work with what she wants and not just vent my spleen or try and fix her.

Also gone back to bObpures toolkit stuff and am trying to apply it properly this time. Where are you bOb?

fiatflux - There has been Plan B and it has helped me get to this point where I am (a little) stronger.

Marcus - You and everybody else telling me this. Believe me, after you've been with someone more than half your life, grew up together, had kids together, it's not something that you just turn off. I don't believe it is for her either. That's why I'm here.

Where are you bOb?

Whassup CEG ?

Any more advice bOb?

I'll read and catch up. Bear with me mate.

No prob

CEG

Did you ever expose to OM s GF ?

I can;t find if you did or not.

If not assemble hard proof and get it to her ASAP. You will be able to determine if the A is still gong ( I think it is) from correlating facts and dates with OM GF.

Let me know the answer to this and I'll add more.

Hey Bob

Sorry haven't been on for a couple of days. Hit the big 40 on Tuesday and have been ain a bit of a pickle ever since. Never exposed to OM GF, have thought about it quite a bit but it's such a long time after main exposure I've left it alone.

Whether PA is still going on don't know, probably is from what I guess /pick up. I am absolutely certain that she is still tied into him emotionally though.

Can't reach her at all at the moment. Just got decree nici through. She wants to push for absolute.

There is absolutely no try in her, just comes back saying she doesn't want to even try. I should move on etc.

We've sold the house (nearly) - she's already put an offer on one that she wants. Sees it all as fresh start / new life etc. I think after this latest "buzz" it's gonna become harder for her.

CEG

Plan B is what is usually suggested in your situation.It removes you from the chaos she causes in your life and prevent syour care for her dwindling away.

Have you got the sand for plan B, CEG ?

Theres no magic bullet to make a WS commit. I suspect she's still in her affair,else she would have withdrawn from him by now. ANY contact resets the clock.

I'm not sure what to advise you, CEG I can only tell you what I would do.

I'd expose to OMGF to ensure OM faced some consequences of his actions.

Then I'd go into a very dark plan B. That way my dignity would at least feel intact.

Sorry you're in this mess mate. Maybe it's worth calling Steve Harley to see what he suggests ?

Hi bOb

Thanks for the response. I think I've hit an all time low. Talked to some friends, who agree it's not over and she's still in love with him. He now lives in Bristol, her in Lancashire but he keeps on turning up.

I'd love to hear the truth from her. In a way I think it will help me move on. Certainly the cr*p I've had from her as to why and what happened before and after the split has kept me alive with some false hope. I know what the truth is, but need to hear it from her, and to look me in the eye when she does it.

Yes I have got the sand for Plan B, but the contact with OM is going to drag on for months / years. I can't see a way in.

I think I'm goona have to accept that it's over - maybe I've answered my own question?

Haven't dopped by for a while. Really an update for anyone who's interested, maybe just a journal for me.

Emotionally crashed before xmas, knew it was going to be tough, but was feeling quite strong, then kaboom it hit me and I sank into a horrible depression. Actually xmas / New Years passed without too much trauma,threw the xmas tree out on NY day and started to feel quite good about life again.

I've found a new house (renting at mo.) and am looking forward to that as a space for me and kids.

Divorce is looming large, will probably be complete by end of January. Don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing now. I've said to WW so many times that this will make no difference to how I feel about her. In so many ways I think I will be scarred for life anyway.

She still contacts OM. Don't know what level their relationship is at, but I'm guessing they speak at least once / day.

I'm finding it so hard to get over her. I wish I could just cut out my heart and the bit of my stomach that turns every time I think about her.

Going into self pity mode here, but it's so hard when you've lost your home, your kids (50%), your only love, and most of all your best friend. I'll survive but I really wanted to live.

CEG - I don't have time to go back and read your thread so you've probably heard my words before. You can't do a thing to change your WW's actions. The only person you can control is yourself. So, regardless of what happens at the end of the month regarding your divorce, just aspire to be a person you are proud of and that your daughters look up to.

Your wife is totally selfish at the moment and only really cares about herself. In my opinion, it is not worth the effort to argue or plead with a person in an active affair. So it really is time to worry about YOU. She will regret her actions because OM is just a fantasy. The reality of ending a marriage, the financial implications, the hurt she's inflicting on your daughters - it really hasn't hit her yet.

But ending a marriage is sad and you are entitled to grieve as such. If that is the consequence of her actions, you will be low and unhappy for a while. There is a divorced/ divorcing board on MB where you will find people going through the same emotions as yourself. Hopefully they can pick you up, give you some great advice and help you get through this.

Now get to bed. Isn't it about 2 am there? TT

Thanks tt. Yes late nights an lack of sleep seem par for the course these days. Unfortunately, it's a self defeating cycle, because when I'm tired I feel low. When I'm low I don't sleep etc.

Self care is a real issue. When I'm busy, especially at work, I feel great. When I'm rattling around on my own I start reflecting and the walls come down.

Ended up having a row with her today. Logistics of children really not good for a good Plan B. Problem is when I see her, I just end up getting angry at her apathy. Actually it's more than that, I am becoming demonised and everything she thinks about me is just negative, negative, negative.

The advice on here is brilliant, just can't get myself to follow through. Can't back off, can't just let it die - it's just such a waste.

I need help being strong, don't get me wrong I'm not some kind of wimp but following my counselling sessions I know that is my biggest flaw, going over the top to get what I want. Can't back off and need to back off, but I'm so passionate bout saving this, even on the other side of divorce.

I suggest you stay in Plan B.

If the divorce happens, chances are that the affair will end. They always do. But if you continue contact with her, you are the one who is likely to lose your love for her.

"Found" this on WW e-mail. Well, as I suspected, it's still ongoing. I hate this crap and really wonder why I'm bothering.


Hello you I know it's not usually my style to send deep emails but I find it hard to say what I want to over the phone without getting upset! I honestly do agree that you need to find a base and I can absolutely see why you would go abroad for a couple of years and earn mega bucks. As a friend who loves you I want you to be happy and I know you havn't been for a long time.As far as you and me go I have been really confused and I'm sorry if it comes across as grumpiness! Not intended.Or maybe a little! Our "special friendship" as you put it in a txt at new year has been so good- was so pleased when you said you wanted it to carry on so it's been real hard the last couple of weeks feeling things have changed but not knowing why.You know (OM) it's been a long time -well over a year since this started and I find it hard to let it go.

CEG,

Are you in Plan B? Separate yourself from her AS MUCH as possilbe. Nail down stuff with your girls' time so that there is no need to SEE eachother. DO NOT speak on the phone; only speak about business, and do so through voicemail tag (not recommended), TM's or email, if you have no intermediary (mine pooped out on me AGAIN).

I know what you are feeling, and I'm here to tell you that with every passing day, with little contact, you begin to feel better, and the stomach doesn't turn so much anymore, and when you laugh, you ACTUALLY mean it.

Dig in those heels and STAY DARK; it's not only about allowing the wayward to feel the full impact of separation/D; it's about moving away from the chaos that YOUR life, YOUR heart has sustained.

If you've effected their A with exposure, and pressure, you are finished! OUT!!! You are right! Don't bother...

Letting go of the illusion of control is VERY difficult, but the silence will help...

Thanks SL

Actually, things have started improving ever so slowly. I think the e-mail actually reflects that the A may be coming to an end. I really am digging in now and remaining as dark as I can. When communication is required, I try to do it without conflict. I made a statement to her that I can't do anything about this anymore. If she wants back in at some point in the future, I may very well have moved on. Did I detect some fear in those eyes?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Well it's all too late. Decree Absolut came through today and not a peep from WW. God I'm miserable.

Well it's a couple of months down the line. Time for an update.

Officially divorced 2 months now. How do I feel? Like I want to be back with her again of course! It doesn't change - how do you just stop loving someone you've loved for soooo long.

Eldest daughter now has depression and needs some counselling - of course her mother always maintained the kids were fine, wouldn't affect them etc. etc.

This guy still seems to drift in and out of her life. I really want to harm him now, not for what he's done to me, more of what he has done to my children. When she moved into her new house, OM sent her a card saying love to the kids. There were some lovebusters in the air that day I'll tell you.

In a way, I see how I've grown through this, how much of a better person I've become. Very much feel I deserve better than the treatment I've had, but of course still love her dearly.

CEG,

I have been reading your thread since you first came here. I felt you were getting good advice so I felt no need to post. I am sorry that your divorce is final.

If I may, I would like to offer you some thoughts on this and your future.

1. It will take roughly a year for you to recover from this emotionally. Do your best to fill your time with things you enjoy. Especially fill your time with your daughters. They will need you now more than ever. Why? Well, their foundation has been ripped apart. The man they are most exposed to via your W is the OM, and that will leave a very bad taste in their mouths for men. You need to rectify this, but given they are teenagers do it slowly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It would never do for them to start having boy friends. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

2. Your W will be in your life to some extent because of the daughters. However, she will come back one day. Probably in a few years. Be prepared, have a full life, and don't wait for her.

3. If you do move on and develop more friends (male and female), continue being a great dad to your daughters, and continue to be successful at your work, you will do two things. The first is that you will make her really regret her choices. The second is that you will become attractive to her again.

I am not sure you want the second, but the first is only fitting isn't it?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Also, please use what you have learned here and going through this mess to your advantage. I mean you will find yourself in high demand, when it is learned that you really do know how a relationship should go. I'm betting you will be very popular.

Finally, do all of these things, but don't beat yourself up about still healing from this. It takes time, patience, and eventually you moving on to handle this.

I will end this by pointing out the obvious. You will NEVER for get your exW. What will happen is that the intense feelings associated with those memories will fade and detach from them. YOU WILL HEAL. You have already grown.

God Bless,

JL