I have two of Stormie's books: Power of a Praying Wife and Just Enough Light for the Step I'm On... and years ago we began a study ... this part of MB got pretty busy (and prayerful) and then we all just sorta fizzled out and went our separate ways.

Is anyone interested in beginning again?

I don't have a ton of time and I've really felt so far away from God for such a long time... so I wouldn't feel comfortable leading this... but I'd love to participate and see what God can do in my life.

Anyone else?

ETA: Changed title to reflect study has begun! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

NBII,

Hi there! Would love to do a study on this. I remember we had done it when I first came on here & that book helped me so tremendously. Think it would be great to do again!

Hey Ladies,

It does my heart good to hear you all talk about doing the study again. My wife was telling me just today that God told her to open that book and begin reading it. She stopped and said; "If you really want me to do that, make the book easy to find." I bought the book about 3 or 4 years ago and she never really took an interest (she was full on in her A at the time), so no telling where the book was. She looked down at the bookshelf she was standing next to and there it was. The funny thing is, I always kept all three of those books together (POPH, POPW and POPParent) in another room, not in that bookshelf. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

So she took it, wondering where she should start and the book had a bookmark in it on chapter seven "Praying for His Mind" So she read the chapter and right before she got to the prayer, she said a prayer and then read the prayer in the book.

The reason she told me about it was because I told her things were going through my head my last few Sundays at work.

It's amazing what God does when you need it, with the ones you need it from. I'm so glad that she's in a better frame of mind to hear Him now. Tough to hear from God in the fog.

Anyway for what it's worth, I'm proud to hear you all trying to start it up again. You know it's easier for us guys to "get it" when our wives are praying for us.

Praying that God is blessing you both.

In His Arms.

S&C

Hi ST and S&C,

Yes, I really want to do this...

Y, Which book would you like to begin with? POPW? Either one is fine with me... and think about how much you'd like to read a day, a week, or whatever is convenient and won't burn you out quickly... no pressure...

For me... I guess a chapter a week would be good...

Hope others will join us but I'm perfectly happy with just the two of us... if that's how it ends up.

Let me know what you think...

(Thanks for the hello and words of encouragement, S&C -- you are welcome any time, even though you're a dude! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

**bump for anyone else who might want to join us?**

I'm thinking of beginning next week... and may just write my thoughts no matter what <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

hello guys, count me in!

Hi Denise!

Do you have the book? I was sort of waiting for ST to return before I began... and then I've been having some issues here that need to be dealt with and I just haven't begun the book...

But now you're here...

If you will give me this weekend to get myself (and my issues) collected, I would love to begin.

How's that for you?

I would like to join in as well. I"ve been somewhat detached and away from God too the last few months. Its really a shame as my faith is what has kept me strong but as things got better in my M I didn't keep up with my walk. I've been thinking about this since this past weekend when my FWH told me that he really felt like he was closer to God than he had ever been just before the A started, and that he didn't understand why it didn't stop him from giving in to her flirting... I told him it was obvious that the Devil was scared that he had lost him and had to show him his power. FWH said he never thought of that but did agree. Sadly, I said he not only got you but pulled me back away as well.

So, I would love to be a part of this and like most, don't have a lot of time but would do my best to participate as much as possible.

Hi Annie, and welcome!

Okay, so we're doing Power of a Praying Wife?

If so, (and I'm assuming that's so <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)... let's begin reading on Monday (Chapter 1) and I'll begin writing some thoughts as soon as I can. I'm really hoping to do a chapter a week, but might not be able to.

Anyone else feel FREE to step in, begin a convo on your own, lag behind or run ahead... no pressure for anyone, okay?

See you and let's begin praying earnestly for our H's!

I have read through the other threads that discussed this book... and I'm sure we'll cover a lot of the same ground. I'm hoping that others of you will chime in ... and even if you don't have the book... you can comment on the comments <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Please let me know if I go to slow, too fast, or anything else.

Here are my thoughts on the Introduction (the Power):

• POPW is not about gaining control over your husband.
  
  I'm a control freak. I haven't yet begun this praying for my H in earnest, and honestly it scares me a little. I want to control the situations in our life -- and truthfully, I haven't been able to, so it's a futile thing anyway. What a waste of time and energy! I have another book (Christian) by another author that I can't remember right now (I'm at work writing on my lunch hour)... it's called The Control Trap. What a reality check THAT book was! Yipes. I need to let go of controlling many aspects of my life... but mostly, let go of my H to be the man God wants him to be... and love, support and uplift him even when he makes mistakes. Scary.
• POPW is for a wife to *do* right more than *be* right.
  
  I love this concept. I want to be right, true enough... but to DO right takes an effort that I hadn't realized before I read this comment. Praying is doing.
• Praying for your husband is NOT the same as praying for your children. We have authority over our children - not our husbands.
  
  Isn't this interesting? I'd NEVER considered this before. I'm still digesting what I think this means... will be back with comments later.
• A wife's prayer for her husband will have far greater effect on him than anyone else's, even his mother's. There is strength in the UNION of husband and wife and the sum of that strength is greater than each individual.
  
  Isn't this the COOLEST thing? We are a UNIT... as ONE. Wow.
• Even if your husband does not pray for you, your prayers for him will spill onto you and your family.
  
  Nice... plus, it makes sense that when I am praying, lifting up my H, even when he does make boo-boos in judgement, that MY HEART will be softer toward him (instead of ripping his head off - which I normally don't do, but occasionally, I admit it, I have.). For that reason ALONE it will bring POSITIVE results.
  
  

Okay, those are my thoughts about the Introduction...

Any thoughts?

I'll be back to discuss Chapter One (His Wife) soon...

Uhhhhmmmmm.

Hi.

Can I read along even if I don't have the book, am not married, am not Christian, and even the title of the book kinda weirds me out? Because, well, I respect NBII a whole lot and I figure if she thinks something is worthwhile, I should listen a while before I run screaming away with the "ohmigod I've got COOTIES AGAIN" feeling crawling all over my body.

Eek.

Just_J, you should DEFINITELY stay.

and here is the reason: your post made me laugh right when i was on the brink of crying!!!

i do have this book. i have not openned it the past 3 yrs though.

i would like to join in. i fear i may not have much to offer but i will be reading and i'll at least post enough to let you all know i am still breathing...

so we are doing the intro and chapter 1 this week?

thanks NB for advertising this over in GQII

All are welcome...

Hey, J... while the book is Christian, the *idea* that I can let go of the outcome by putting my H in God's hands is very uplifting and hopeful to me. I think you would totally appreciate the concept!

Hi FL,

Please join in!!

NB
I would love to do this study with you. I have read this book and used it off and on over the past five years. It is truly amazing how God works when we let go. It is when HE brought me to that point of letting my husband go and letting God deal with him through this book that I have seen amazing things happen in our lives.

I always have to check my motivations for my prayers, making sure they are not selfish. I look forward to this.

Neat, bjs... please feel free to add any thoughts... or go ahead a bit and get the first chapter started, if'n ya want! Welcome!!

I'll join. I'll need to go buy another copy of the book- I keep giving mine away to other women.

I probably can't buy the book til the weekend. So, some of you post some good info here, ok?

YaY!!

MF, Welcome!

I am a fast reader, but am not able to log on often (though lately I've been on more than usual)... so I really am going to try to stick to one chapter a week... because I don't want to rush through and miss what's important!

Also, I want to make it clear that I haven't been as close to God as I would have liked over the last few years... this is also for ME... but I don't want anyone to think I'm an expert on this stuff: I'm NOT. I am excited to see what God can do!!

I would love to join in but I need a few days to go out and get the book.We just started attending church and maybe this will help me get a better understanding.

Welcome Daisey!

Go get the book... we'll be here... and yes, I think this book would support your new journey!

FinallyLrningT2H - I'm glad I could make you laugh! I have often found that laughter on the brink of tears is the most healing thing that can possibly happen at that moment. I recall a time when... well, let's just say someone was mean and nasty to me because he had power over me and felt that he -could- be mean and nasty. And when I told someone else as I was on the brink of tears, the person just burst out laughing at how utterly ridiculous and small the person had been.

And you know what? That big ugly booger of a person changed right back into the small little dwarf that he'd always been for me, too.

Laughter is goooood stuff.

NB, thanks for a little bit more about the concept. I know a little about letting go of outcomes and how powerful that can be. Learning about it in the context of considering a husband? Hum. Well, I don't have one and have never had one, but I'll try to use my imagination...

Ooo!! My imaginary husband's on the phone. Bye!

You know what, J?

Think about HOFS... and when you feel compelled to give your opinion about something he should do (that is, *if* you struggle with this as many wives do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)... now, instead of giving your opinion... you pray for him to make the right decision and give the outcome to God... which accomplishes two things, actually three: One, it lifts up him up... Two, it doesn't bring him down... Three, it removes the burden from you.

If'n this all works as it should, you will have the following result: You have given the burden to God and your H to solve, and have removed yourself from the outcome. In a perfect world, your partner will make the *correct choice* and all will be right with the world. In the worst case, your partner makes a wrong decision, and when in the past you might have been angry or bitter about it (especially if you'd told him what he *should* do and he hadn't)... now you have peace. It doesn't remove the CONSEQUENCES of his choice, but it is on his shoulders, not yours.

You may be thinking "Why should he carry the burden alone?"... as a Christian, it is because the husband is the leader of the household. This doesn't mean he lords his authority or that he is free to abuse anyone... and a lot of men and women (Christian or secular) do NOT agree or accept the authority.

While I'm sure that a praying wife can gain valuable insight and that her H can be uplifted and make good choices whether or not either of them believe in what I'm talking about here... I guess this why the study is for Christian wives. Personally, I have some difficulty... not as much with the concept, but with the reality of it. That's part of what we'll be studying, I know.

I don't buy into a lot of things my church taught me, J, and I look forward to doing a study like this with other women who want to know God's leading. You are OF COURSE, welcome and encouraged to be here.

PS: There is always room for girls who love to play in the sun!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm in,

Now to find the book - who has it? Oh well half price books will have another copy ...

Linda

Welcome silverpool!

Good question... who has the book already?

I'm looking for my copy of the book - but I would love to do this with you.

Heh. This much, anyway, is -not- difficult.


So what about when he asks my advice?


Where does right action fit into this?


All good things. Doesn't this approach also abrogate responsibility for my own destiny and personal actions?


Seems like my husband's decisions would already be his responsibility, wouldn't they?


Uhm.... so I'm letting go of the outcome and deciding not to participate in the process of the marriage? Uhm. Uhm. Uhm.

I wonder what Harley would say about that.

I wonder what Cerri would say about that. (Wait, no, I can imagine what she would say pretty easily. *snicker* Ahem. Right.)


Hum. Yeah, I read this on MM's thread about the roles of husbands and wives. I have a hard time with it. Perhaps it's because I don't actually trust anyone besides me.


If I were busy raising fifteen children on my own, I could see how I might agree that the man should make the overall decisions on other stuff. Within certain bounds of acceptable behavior, of course -- abuse, neglect, infidelity, addiction would be on the "no you can't make that choice" list, for example. I suspect Christians would say that even that wasn't my responsibility, because the Bible already says that stuff isn't okay so the other "men" in charge should take care of it, or something like that.

And this is correct because why?

Oh, right. I remember now. Patriarchal destruction of the Goddess archetype. (Channeling Cerridwen for a minute there.)

*sigh*

I do agree with letting go of outcomes. I do not agree with letting go of personal responsibility for right action. My own right action, not anyone else's.


I actually think that about half the concept is correct. Working for (praying for) someone else to be grounded and compassionate in his or her responsible choices is a very good thing indeed. And letting go of the need to control someone else is also a very good thing.

It's the whole "husband as the boss of me" thing that makes me think I have COOTIES again. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEK. *squirm*


Thanks! I ordered the book from half.com today. It'll be interesting. I suspect I'll have to hold my nose and do several banishing rituals to be able to read some of it. It's always good to learn, though.


It's too hot to play in the sun right now! 98 degrees and cooking. Sigh.

Hi Cheryl, and Welcome!

I have Monday off (a civil holiday in Canada) so I will begin our discussion on Chapter One (His Wife) then…

JustJ (and this will be of interest to everyone else, too, I think)~~

I was going to quote your questions and answer them (and they’re excellent questions) but here’s what I’ve decided is the best course of action at this time: To be still and let the book answer…

Your questions, I believe, will be answered throughout this study… and by someone who has a lot more experience than I do. I could answer, but it would be my opinion only, and while my opinion is important (as all of our opinions are <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) it is not the crux of our study. The author and her book, along with the Bible, are the crux.

J, I understand your aversion (if that’s the right word) to the idea that anyone else has control over or carries a responsibility for you (us). We’re adults, of course.

One thing I did NOT say is that you won't "participate in the marriage"... on the contrary, you WILL. The praying wife, as I remember, is not meekly standing in corners or hiding... though she may have a prayer "closet"... and by that I mean, a quiet place that she goes to talk with God (and listen!). I don't think the author ever says that we are not to have an opinion, either. How we share our opinion will certainly be discussed, and I believe it is in the first chapter. You've gotta know that if Harley set up and/or blessed this section of the forum, it's not something he'd be against. The whole forum actually BEGAN as a place to discuss THIS BOOK. (Caps for emphesis, of course).

So, it's all good, as far as I can see... and I totally look forward to seeing what will happen for all of us!

One final thought to everyone: The only reason I've kind of stepped up to lead this study is because I wanted some friendship, discussion and communion with women who were interested in doing this with me. ""WITH me"" being the operative phrase. I am not here alone, and I expect (and fervently HOPE) that each of you will have a LOT to offer us.

If at any time anyone wants to write their heart about what THEY are learning, seeing and/or feeling, I can't say it enough: RUN WITH IT.

Rabbit trails, threadjacks and sticking to one topic until we all feel comfortable moving ahead are fine.

See you on Monday, Ladies!

Just J

As Christians we believe that there is an order in our lives and it comes from the Bible passage:

Ephesians 5:22-33
22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[b] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.


Now what some people do is they take this passage and twist it to their own purpose. For me and my understanding it does not mean that my husband is better than me because no human is better than the other. We are all equal. However a marriage works better when we follow this guidance.

In my marriage I have been the leader for far to many years because my spouse did not follow this. One day he walked into our house and was discussing with me why our house seemed to be in such chaos. That week we had a sermon at our church and in that sermon our Pastor discussed this chapter and several others. He said that this is the way God designed it and when it is out of order there is choas in the house. Because when the husband does not lead the wife has to step out of her role and this causes chaos. And sure enough it did in our family.

You offer it to him with respect. It doesn't mean you are a statue in your own marriage without opinions. It does mean to not say "I think thats a stupid idea and I have a better one." It means presenting your idea respectfully. It also means praying about whatever decision you need to make. Then if your husband still chooses to follow his plan then the consequences are for him to deal with, yes even if it affects you. However we all make wrong decisions at times and mistakes. We can offer grace at this time or point the finger and build up resentment and roadblocks to the marriage.

As a Christian I fully trust in God with my life. I don't trust just myself as I make mistakes huge mistakes. I listen to what others say, I check that against what I know, pray and then try to make the best decisions. I it's hard to just trust yourself, would make it pretty lonely for me. The one thing about trust is that everyone is going to fail you, everyone, even yourself. However God never fails.


My spouse was overseas, spending a large amount of inappropriate time with another woman. I call it an EA. Now during this choice I had several choices to make. My first one was to let him know how I felt, how wrong he was yada yada yada. The only thing that did was to pushes him closer to her, cause him to lie to me more and put a huge wedge in between us because all's he heard from his wife was how wrong he was, and on and on and on. Well no wonder he didn't want to email me, or talk to me on the phone. So once I stop doing what I thought was right, once I started praying about and had others praying, I started hearing "Be still, do nothing." At first I was like no way that's not me I can fix this. Well guess what I could not. So I was still, I prayed others prayed and quickly their time spent together stopped. It has taken several more years for my husband to understand what he was doing and just how wrong it was. Had I not started to pray, had I not listened to God's leading, I know that at this time I would be divorced. So no it doesn't mean we do nothing.

You made me laugh here and I really needed that, thanks. I think that's what a lot of people get caught up in. And that's not the way to look at it. You are still you, with ideas, opinions, suggestions and sometimes we offer and have very good ones. It's how we handle giving those and what we do if our spouse decides he feels that's not quite right for our family. My spouse gives my voice a lot of merit in our family. Sometimes he takes what I say and decides that's the way to go and sometimes not and I'm ok with that. Because I know that a lot of times I am wrong, because of maybe the way I was looking at the situation and the way he is looking at it.

I hope some of this helps. I'm not very good at discussing some of this and this will help. Plus sometimes I write one thing when I mean another. My kids always laugh at me because when I speak a word that totally makes no sense comes out of my mouth. No clue how or why it just does. So if something doesn't make sense let me know. or is totally confusing. Your questions definitely make me think about why I believe what I believe.

I've read the intro. I'm not sure if we are supposed to talk personally here or just theolgy. I'm going for personal for now because other than our MC - I don't have anyone to really talk through this stuff with. But if that's not the idea - I can keep it more theoretical.

See I've gone through this book before - I thought if I just go through this and pray it - than God will fix my dh. That wasn't the right attitude and it didn't work.

I'm dubious still that even prayer will change my dh. I guess I feel like I could pray all I want but he still makes his own choices and the best I can hope for is changing my heart. Because I will say here - my heart is pretty hard and cynical right now - to God and my dh.

It is hard to think that we can actually have a good marriage or that I can actually feel God's presense or even just be at peace. So much has gone down between us from the start of our relationship - which did not start in a Godly way, "shotgun" wedding, and all the issues/conflict we have been through. Stormie's mentioning rage as her dh's issue resonates with me because that is the most serious issue that we are dealing with is my dh's rage and anger management (being addressed in counselling).

I don't expect dh to pray for me or with me. Because he doesn't - he's not comfortable to. I've resented that - esp when he can pray at church in front of people - but not with me or in front of me. So somewhere along the line I've pretty much stopped praying altogether and I don't like who I'm becoming. I guess I feel like I'm headed to "the dark side" and that's not where I want to be.

So my goal here is as the book said

"The purpose is to ask God to make your heart right, to show you how to be a good wife, share the burdens of your soul and seek God's blessing on your husband". pg 21

I have been at the point for a long time now - where if it weren't for the kids - I would have left a long, long time ago. On page 16/17 - she talks about that picture of what life would be like for the kids with divorce and that's exactly why I'm still in my marriage. Same on page 17 - where she says "I don't want to pray for him. I don't want to ask God to bless him. I only want God to strike his heart with lightning and convict him of how cruel he has been". I relate to that - MC is helping some - but I still hold a ton of unforgiveness to my dh. So I"m hoping that somehow this study, praying for dh anyway, and the interaction with people here (rather than reading it alone like I did 4 years ago) - will help me have not such a hard heart and come back closer to God.

I wonder if this might get even more personal than normal discussions and if we would want to set up an email group for discussions?

People might feel more comfortable in emails that are not public like these posts.

if we want to do that, let me know. I would be happy to set it up.

{{mamacheryl}} Thanks for sharing so much!!!

i think a bit of both, personal and therotical, is good.

i have some personal reactions to what i have read so far too. lack of time right now, i'll try to share more on monday.

Just a couple of thoughts, because it's before work and I don't have a lot of time.

bj~ YES! This is EXACTLY why I wanted to do this study WITH women, not just by myself.

cheryl~ Talk about anything, everything, and whatever you feel led to go...

mf~ Majority will rule on the question of whether or not to move this to a private forum, but my "vote" is to stay here. I believe that anyone who does venture over here would be blessed by the discussion... and would allow for anyone who wants to join us to do so easily.

I got the book and began reading it today. I hadn't realized that I was praying the wrong way. I didn't tell God my feelings, and my prayers were short and actually were more for me, not for him.

I prayed today after reading just the first bit of the book, I told God that I had not been praying correctly, that my prayers for my husband had been selfish, that I wasn't praying for him, but more for me. I apologized to the Lord for my lack of diligence in my prayers lately, I asked the Lord to remove the walls from around my heart and to make it clean so that I would be able to pray FOR my husband and not myself.

I found myself guilty of the same prayers Stormie was talking about "Please change him Lord" "Please soften his heart to our marriage and our family" I was not praying for HIM I was praying for ME.

Today I asked the Lord to show me the path, to help me to understand the things that are keeping my husband locked into place and not letting him move forward, I asked him to help my husband to forgive me, and to also help me forgive him.

I told the Lord that I have on many occasions prayed that he take control of my marriage, but that I was guilty of trying to manipulate my husband by the things I said and did. I was praying for something and then directly contradicting it with my actions.

I am so thankful that the Lord led me to this thread.

Thank You and God Bless You,

-Caren

JustJ and others, I am sorry my last post came out in all bold. Not sure how I did that, hopefully I can go back and fix it.

Mamacheryl: I can only tell you what personally happened to me. I have to admit that yes at times my prayers were and sometimes still are selfish prayers. I have discussions with God at all times, shower, driving, lawn mowing(which is awesome because the sound drives out all the other noise).

What I have come to realize is that the only one that I can change is me. That I had to change my heart and those areas that I was being disrespectful, and unloving to my spouse. I also had to know that I could not change my spouse, because every time I tried to manipulate him to my ways it always backfired and always made things worse. Once I truly let go was when I started seeing things happen with my spouse.

This did not occur on the first, second or third time, it has evolved over 5long years and in some areas 13 years. One of my prayers used to be at the time that I was really struggling with anger towards my spouse was "for God to show my husband his love through me", and "for me to love my husband the way God wanted me to." Because the way things were back then I just felt I did not have the ability to do it. I was dealing with so much hurt, anger, bitterness, entitlement.

Sometimes it is very hard to find that time to pray. And of course Satan does not want you to pray. Because one of his goals is to destroy marriages because if he can destroy a marriage he can take down many people, cause hurt and pain for a long time.

There are several things I have learned over the years. One was I was not the person I should have been, I see that now and I am glad for some of the changes I have made. By my changing and softening of my heart towards my spouse it has allowed him to tell me things that have happened to him that gives me new insight into him. Stuff he never felt safe to tell me before and that was due to my actions. I have also found a peace in my life that I never knew before, knowing that no matter what is going on in my life, I will be ok.

I need to go as hubby surprised me by coming home early.

Oooooo, dear, Coooties cooties cooties cooties. Eeeeeek.

All right. Calling in a few angels for cleansing. I -will- be better soon, promise. *Squirm* *shudder*

[Pause. Ground. Connect. Breathe. Breathe. Breathe.]

Okay.

That quote from the bible did it to me. The husband as the head of the marriage as Christ is the head of the husband. MM presented it as a military order sort of thing. The private reports to the corporal who reports to the sergeant who reports to the master sergeant, or whatever.

*squirm*

MMMMMkay.

A hierarchical structure is one of the best ways to build a large organization. In this case, a Church. Individual is part of a unit known as "family." In "family," XY chromosome designated as lead, XX designated as, hmm, sub-lead, children designated as "followers and protected."

XY (lead) is also subordinate to larger unit known as "congregation," led by another XY known as "priest." Priest is part of hierarchy known as "Church," structure variable but usually includes prelates, bishops, and sometimes Cardinals and Popes... all XY.

Sociologically a hierarchical structure makes sense. However, I've yet to see a single bit of evidence that suggested that a man is the most appropriate person for any of the male-only roles. And a hierarchy that refuses to "promote" someone capable of performing the role solely because of her sex is, in my view, inherently suspect.

Even if it wasn't intended that way, much of it has been used to keep women from recognizing and taking ownership of their very real innate strength and power. It's been less than 100 years since women in the United States won the right to vote. In other parts of the world, we are still only one step better than slaves.

So I am suspicious when I hear this same line of propaganda repeated, no matter what the context.

Having said that, well, okay, now I'll tell you all a secret.

I would love it if someone else took the responsibility for making the decisions. In my first marriage, I was the head of my household. Being the leader is hard, often thankless work. I didn't really want the job, but I did it well and we had a very good marriage for a long time. (Except for the problem of inviting other people into it, which eventually led to its destruction. Err, does anyone here not know my story? My ex is female, we have a daughter, the story is complicated and triggers all kinds of people to rant at me, if you want to know more send me e-mail and I'll see if I can dig up the links.)

So. I've been the head of the household. I've watched my family disintegrate. Nearly sixteen years later, if someone else wants the job -- and can show his or her ability in the role -- that is fine with me.

I'm reminded of a night when HoFS and I were having dinner on his back porch. I was talking about something and said, "So if I bring you one of these, then here's what I'd like you to do..."

And he looked up at me and met my eyes and said, "I know what to do." No more. But the confidence in his tone made clear that he -did- know. So I let go of worrying about that part of it and, well....

Let's just say that the whole situations turned out -very- well for all concerned.

Hum.

So.

Hierarchy.

The boss of me is going to have to be a pretty special human being. I've met one who qualifies, I think. It's a good thing he's had to practice his leadership skills on teenagers for a while now. I'm -terrible- sometimes.

Oh, and do I trust God? MMmmmmm. We're working on that. God and I have a long history. Remember that story about the skittish cat and the family who eventually drew her out? Well, we'll see whether God manages to draw me out or not. I did sit on His lap and purr one night. That was nice. (And it was because of NB's quote that she used, the one about purring on God's shoulder.) And I'm still cautious.


And then there's praying and how to do it well. I don't know much about Christian prayer. In Judaism, the prayers are pretty well laid-out for you. (I'm not Jewish either, but have attended many more Jewish services than Christian, and know more about Jewish practices than any other religion.)

From that perspective, prayer is a lot more about praise and blessings than about my own wants and needs.

When I learned to pray -- the day that my ex told me she had revoked her consent to the adoption -- it was utterly desperate begging. It didn't help, of course, though eventually I got to the point where the emotional "speakers" blew out and I got numb. I took that as a blessing; numbness was much better than the pain I was in.

Since then, well, I've found that the best prayer for me isn't prayer so much as it is meditation and listening. Anyone seen the "only love prevails" campaign? I like that, too. (If you haven't, it's here: http://www.openheart.com/peace/peace.html)

So to wander through the question of trust. For many years I knew almost no one who was strong enough to, hmm, keep up with me. That's not a good thing.

As I was talking to a friend today, I noticed that one of the reasons I can be with HoFS is that he's a grownup. He understands honor, integrity, responsibility, etc.

And the poor man, when I tried getting out of the way and not being so opinionated today, finally said, "Uh, what are you doing?" Errrr, well, remember that book I told you about that NB is going to work through? I'm trying that.

He asked that I not give up being -me- just because of what some book says.

A good point. And not my intent. AND I've gotten off-topic because thinking about HoFS pretty much guarantees that my head will start doing lovely loop-the-loop daydreams.

Wheee!

Gosh, you guys are talkin' up a WONDERFUL storm...

It's Friday, the end of a very long day leading into my holiday weekend here... and I have to stay late at work because my H's working late (we share a ride in - we work at the same place! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)... anyway, here I am for a bit.

Just J... here's the thing... neither THIS BOOK or I am asking you to *change* anything other than your prayer life.

While it is assumed, since it is a Christian book, that the reader is a Christian and a wife... I believe that ANYONE can benefit from its teachings on prayer.

That quote you mention above (about purring on God's shoulder) is from the book Praying With Katie . Honestly, at the spiritual place you are **right now** you'd probably really, really, REALLY [color:"red"] LOVE [/color] reading it. (Psst... get it!)

I'm not so sure you'll even the teeny-tinyest *like* POPW... and the more you write, the more I worry ('cause you know I'm a worrier <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> )... because the last thing I'd want is for you to feel that you were 1. mislead or 2. preached-at here. More than that, I'd never, ever want you to feel excluded by me (personally) or by a group of Christian women reading a book.

Now, all that said... the Bible will be mentioned throughout, and J, you know I have had my issues with the Bible and with God. The whole reason I wanted to begin this discussion is actually for two reasons: 1. because I want to learn how to lift up my H in as a Godly wife and 2. because I want to feel closer to God, who I see as the God of my youth, the Christian God (which includes the Holy Trinity - which we can and will discuss later in the study, I know).

I just want you to know, J, that the wife is given very high esteem in the Bible. Let me share a Bible verse that fits this study very well:

Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her; So he will have no lack of gain. She does him good and not evil All the days of her life. She seeks wool and flax, And willingly works with her hands. She is like the merchant ships, She brings her food from afar. She also rises while it is yet night, And provides food for her household, And a portion for her maidservants. She considers a field and buys it; From her profits she plants a vineyard. She girds herself with strength, And strengthens her arms. She perceives that her merchandise is good, And her lamp does not go out by night. She stretches out her hands to the distaff, And her hand holds the spindle. She extends her hand to the poor, Yes, she reaches out her hands to the needy. She is not afraid of snow for her household, For all her household is clothed with scarlet.

Proverbs 31:10-21

The wife has *great* worth, and for a Christian wife, these words have deep meaning.

Okay, well, I ended up saying a mouthful, I think.

I do not see it as anyone being the boss of me, I see it as H being given specific responsibilities by God. Doesn't make H my boss, makes us co workers with different responsibilities.

Also when we have a doctor we trust implicitly, and something is really wrong with us we run to him and do as he says without question, and in our lives God is like this, We trust him to care for us. In our marriage God wants our husband to be like this, not a dominator, but one who is loving and caring and held responsible for our welfare by God. So we feel loved and "run" to him and give him the trust to care for us in his part of the M responsiblity.

So praying for H in our prayers is really like praying for him to make good driving decisions when he will be the driver on a journey. WE drive when the journey is our part of the responsibility.

Linda

Good morning, Ladies,

Up early, husband still asleep, and I began reading through Chapter One...

And lo and behold, I had to run in here, quote MYSELF (from yesterday's response to Just J, and do some thinking!


The subheading that got my attention this morning was Who, Me? ... Change?

I want to quote one part of the paragraph, which explains what Stormie means:
So, I stand corrected!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Change is, indeed, a part of the process.

Just J, I was thinking about you last night -- about this discussion -- about this forum (Women's Bible Study). I don't know the answers to all your questions and/or concerns. While I have many years of Christianity under my belt (like 25 years, actually), I have struggled with my prayer life and my relationship with God. I've had issues with church, as you know. But ultimately, under all the muck of my human-ness, I have come "home" again and again to Jesus.

I am here to learn, like everyone else, and to be led by God in being the best wife I can be. So, I think I'll reserve my opinions about what Stormie is writing until we've come to the chapter in question. See, I already made a BIG boo-boo -- well, kinda/sorta. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Everyone:

I will finish reading the chapter this weekend and be back for sure on Monday with a synopsis for us to discuss. For anyone who doesn't yet have the book, please feel free to share thoughts on what those of us who have the book are writing.

As I said to JustJ above, this is an important study for me. Like so many of you, I just want to get right with God, and have blessings in my marriage and in my life.

God can bless us even when we're questioning, fretting, and wondering about our marriage. We've all been where you are...(whoever you are - me, included. And if you understand that one, you get a prize! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ).

PS: ((((CarenMc)))) I meant to give you a hug the other day... I'm so sorry for your pain. I've read some of your other posts. I understand VERY MUCH... especially about your ex, the regrets, and the amends... I have gone down your path... and I lived through it. I think I might have some insight for you.

NB,

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to this!!! My work schedule & family has swamped me! LOL But I am still interested in working on this book. I've read it, have it in my nightstand & it has worked wonders in my M. Some things I saw an answer to right away & others I've had to wait quite a while & are now finally feeling the affects from the prayers. But all in all, the jist of it is -- prayers for our H's WORK! I'll have to go back & read the responses you've gotten. So happy to see so many! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have to break out my book this evening & post my thoughts. We're on the introduction?

I envy you, NB! I'd love to work at the same place as my SO. I always wanted to do that with my ex (she wasn't interested) and would love to do it with HoFS now. Maybe some day when it's not a 365 mile commute.

Anyway, I chuckled when you said that stuff about how you weren't asking me to change. I'll tell you the same thing that I told HoFS: I'll always learn and grow.

It's not so scary for me to think of changing myself. I've changed so much in my life that a little more change, or even a lot more change, isn't worrisome. I know that I will always work toward excellence in myself; it's not like I'm going to consciously change for the worse, you know?

External change is harder for me sometimes. I didn't really do all that well with the whole "you're not married to me anymore" change. But I still work to accept my life exactly as it is at the moment. I guess that's all change too.

I want to reassure you, too, because I know you worry. Once I receive the book (ordered it last week) and start reading it, if I figure out that the underlying Christian structure really does give me cooties, then I'll back away slowly and quietly. There's a decent chance that will happen. It's happened to me every time I've tried to read the Bible (about once every five years) and it happens to me with other strongly Christian books as well. The underlying ugliness -- hatred in some cases -- is so strong sometimes that I can't stomach it and have to walk away. I hope it won't happen to me with this book.

Silverpool, you said this:


It's interesting that you would use the analogy of a doctor. For more than a decade -- from the age of 16 to the age of 28 -- I lived without a diagnosis of a rare medical condition. It's called Premature Ovarian Failure and it basically means that my ovaries don't work. My own personal theory (there is no real understanding of this condition, just lots of theories, and mine is based in the medical facts and knowledge that is pretty certain) is that when I hit puberty, an autoimmune response was triggered and my body basically destroyed my ovaries as they began to function. I don't ovulate and my body doesn't produce estrogen, progesterone, or the small amounts of testosterone that all normal women's ovaries produce. There are various effects associated with this -- primarily that I am infertile and that my body has been post-menopausal since I was about 16 years old. This is, understandably, NOT something that most doctors think of when they examine a teenager. It took a long time to get -- and accept -- an accurate diagnosis. For many years I simply told all medical personnel to leave me alone because they'd already admitted they couldn't help me.

And when I did find the one doctor in the country who does understand this condition (a researcher at the National Institutes of Health), it surely was NOT the case that he told me what to do and I did it, although I do trust him more than any other doctor I've met. He sat down with me and the other woman who was there for their experimental evaluations that week and told us everything he knows about POF -- and then asked us what we thought. We discussed the pros and cons of various treatment options. He asked about our experiences (uniformly bad) with other doctors. We talked about methods of getting the word out to OB-Gyns about the condition.

That's my paradigm for doctors and that's how I work with them. I've found that they -- and men -- are simply human and sometimes they're good and sometimes they're not. They may have knowledge that I don't have, or I may know much more than they do. I have yet to meet a doc who knew much about POF. I have always known more about it than they do. I tell them what the most current research is. I explain the current hormone dosages. I tell them that we need to check my bones and my thyroid and that we need to watch for early heart disease.

(It affects 1 in 100 women over the age of 40. Less than 1 in 10,000 begin this when they're teenagers.)

Lest you think this is all doom and gloom, here's a bit of humor about it. At my last OB appointment, the nurse-midwife said, "Well, I can't find your ovaries, but that's no surprise." I said, "Yeah, since they're shrivelled up like raisins!" She said, "Well, smaller than that, actually..." And I said, "Yeah, yeah, I have currants for ovaries, I know!" She laughed so hard that she had tears running down her face.

So I really like your analogy, silverpool, though I take it differently than you meant it. I have had excellent working relationships with the best doctors I've ever seen. They understand that I am intelligent and well trained in the sciences. They know that I know the lingo and will ask questions when they hit an area that I'm less familiar with. And most importantly, no doctor has ever made a decision for me.

Perhaps, bringing it back to God, it's about free will and about doing your best to make sure that you really understand what Deity is suggesting that you do. That's a decision and responsibility that I can't, in good conscience, ever give to someone else. It would put someone else between me and my God, between me and my responsibility as a human with free will.

Huh. I suppose we're going to talk about submission somewhere in here. That'll be interesting.

StandingTogether,

Yes, we're still on the Intro, but on Monday we begin Chapter One thoughts... jump in anytime, anywhere, with anythoughts! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

JustJ,

((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))

Dear Ladies,

This is a difficult post to write, but I feel convicted to do so... after prayer and discussions with my H.

Perhaps you have read the recent threads about affair marriages on the main boards. I have, with interest.

My credo, my personal belief, is to "Do No Harm" whenever possible. I have at times, like most of us, harmed others, and have made amends whenever possible. Heck, I make amends sometimes even when it *isn't* my fault. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> The thing is: Harm comes covertly sometimes... not on purpose... and I have to accept the consequences of my prior choices and how they might affect people healing NOW.

My story is seriously all over these boards, and if you know it already you can skip this paragraph. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I met my H while both of us were separated, living apart from our prior spouses, divorces filed, and our prior spouses were with others (his was living with her OM in their marital home). As I've said many, many, many times before, this is something I have had to make peace with -- the idea that my marriage is an "affair marriage."

While the threads going on right now have nothing to do with me personally, they do hit a chord for me, obviously. Last night, several threads began about the harm that having affair marriages on this site bring to the majority who post here.

I had been praying about this for the last three days, because I could sense the tenor of the board. The threads right now are a response to what's been going on for some time, lately. This morning I made my final decision about what is best for me to do -- as I say, with a lot of prayer and the advice of my H.

I cannot be the person to lead this study.

I will be reading along, but God has someone else in mind to lead. Is it you? Please pray about this.

Ladies, I apologize sincerely to you... I should have prayed harder when I had the idea to do this... I pray that my decision does not discourage any one of you to begin the study in earnest.

God bless each of you... and I pray that you and your H's will be blessed by what you read and learn in Stormie's book.

NB,

I read your post in great sadness. I'm glad to see that you're going to follow along though & give your thoughts. It is your decision, & since you've prayed about it, I'm assuming you have made the right choice for YOU. If no one else volunteers, I would like to step up to the challenge of leading the study. I read this book when my H first came home & it has worked wonders in my attitude & my H's. Heck, my H changed w/o me having to ASK that it be done! And I have grown so much from it. From really understanding how I'm supposed to pray for my H. It opened my eyes to things I'd never looked at that way before.

I'll be back later w/my thoughts on Chapter One. Has anyone actually received their copy yet for those that have ordered them?

ST,

((((((((((hugs)))))))))) and THANK YOU!

One thing that stuck out for me in the Introduction was in the last paragraph.

Above all, don't give place to impatience. Seeing answers to your prayers can take time, especially if your marriage is deeply wounded or strained. Be patient to persevere & wait for God to heal.

It is so hard to do that -- wait on God to heal. We are in such a rush to have things done & done now. We want to stop hurting now, we want answers now, we want everything now! It also says

Don't worry about how it will happen .

That's a mighty big statement as well. Leaving it in God's hands is very difficult. We pray & then we keep looking for the answer -- Is it working yet? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> We have to realize that God's ways are not OUR ways. This is so important. He has things planned in His OWN time. He works the way HE wants to work. He accomplishes things the way HE thinks they should be accomplished. We keep taking it back. We keep looking for that answer when all we have to do is live & wait for the answer to come. And it WILL come, but we need to be patient. How many here suffer from this? I know I'm one. I can be very patient in other areas of my life, however, my M I struggle w/that. Anyone know why that is??

I haven't received my copy yet. Book mail can sometimes be very slow, but I do hope it will arrive this week. (I'm reading One Up On Wall Street in the meantime, which is a nice break from the hard work of the other books I'm reading. Yes, I just said that. A book about finances, corporate strength, and investing is a nice break from books about spiritual improvement! I am, truly, a geek...)

Until I receive my copy and start reading, I think I'll sit back a bit and listen. My responses so far have been based on previous experience with Christianity, and I want to give this a fair and open chance at whatever change or growth it may provide to me.

NB,

I also read your post with sadness. It would be great if you do stay and you do talk this over with us. I have not read your history. I do believe that all of us make mistakes and sin and that no one person is better than any other person. We all have consequences regarding our individual sins and if we can help each other out by the lessons we've learned than I believe that is great.

Please go through this with us.


ST- Thank you for taking up the lead in this.

ST

I'm laughing over here because this is exactly what I keep doing. I keep wanting to push things so that we can deal with them, have it done and then move on.

When you come up with "how we can do this all the time" let me know. I have to constantly work on this one, constantly check my motives at the door or with God. And it has been when I have been at my weakest point in all of this and I give up trying to push it my way that I see, feel things moving in my marriage.

One thing a very wise friend of mine told me is that while I am waiting God may be working on the other person and getting them to where they need to be. I have seen this happen with my spouse time and time again, it has taken him several years to get where God needed him to be and I believe God has used my pain and the things I was going through to help my husband see what he needed to see.

bjs - thank you for your post - I'm glad to hear that it takes time - but that you have that peace - that it takes time. Of course I want everything better NOW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know for me some things that have happened - I don't think that *I* can forgive on my own - it's going to have to come from God. I definately need help getting over unforgiveness, bitternes, resentment, anger for the things dh has done to me. So that's what I'm praying about today or trying to. Just reading through the prayer at the end of chapter 1 - it's more like "help me actually mean this".

Hi Ladies,

Actually, I also wrote a thread, with a bit of my history, over on GQ. Click HERE if you'd like to read it.

I did pray about this... and really, it came like a bolt of lightening first... I was all ready to do it, and then *wham* it came to my heart and mind that I am not the right person to do this, at least not at MB. I know God has forgiven me of my sin, and I have even forgiven myself (*that* took a long time)... but too many on our boards are hurting enough already and get re-injured all over again reading stuff from people like me.

Anyway, I will be around... and will write when I feel moved to do so (like NOW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

NB-

Oh PLEASE don't let this thread fall apart. I can't stop reading this book. It's amazing.

I can agree with the wanting things in my marriage fixed QUICK, but in reading this book I am finding such a sense of peace that I no longer feel that. I do not doubt my God one little bit.

NB, can't we just approach this as a prayer group??? Like she suggests having in the book?? I am not all that close knit with the people in my church...I'm pretty new, but they're all much older, and I would feel so much more comfortable having my friends here at MB be my prayer group. Maybe we could even do something Instant messenger.

I mean you started this thread NB, and I believe that if you've asked the Lord for forgiveness, then surely he has granted it. How can anyone hold something against you that God himself has forgiven?

I will admit that I can't read this book one day at a time like I should. I am 1/2 way through it. I just love it. And it's from the library. I have to look on Amazon and see if I can't find one cheap there, because this is something I want to read and re-read.

I believe that with God all things are possible. I have finally given my marriage to him. And I feel as though the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders.

I still pray nightly that God will enable me to forgive the OW. But I think I get confused between having forgiven her and trusting her. Surely I shouldn't trust her......so I have a little trouble in this area. I need to pray for her as well I believe.

My husband does believe in God, and he's been baptized, but he's certainly a long way from following God's word, even before the A.

I will tell you that I am praying nightly to understand what my H is going through, to be able to see things from his perspective, so when the time comes I will be able to be helpful to him.

I am in "SHUT UP AND PRAY" mode, and I pray A LOT!!! I know that I've been praying every bit of an hour a night before I go to sleep.....it helps SO much, I am able to sleep like a baby.

I literally FEEL God's presence when I'm praying....it's the most wonderful thing I've ever felt. I can feel the healing within me already, just letting go, and I feel so much better about everything in my life. I know that he has a plan for me, and I feel very strongly that this doesn't include divorce.

I believe that the man should be the head of the household and the wife should be the heart.

Thank you SOOOOOOOO Much for starting this thread NB!!! It's done more for me than I can tell you. I truly believe that you were meant to start this thread NB, and that I was meant to see it. Praying in this fashion has done more than any counselor or anti-depressant every has. I feel joy for the first time in a long time.

I'm starting to tear up just typing this....tears of joy.

Don't be so hard on yourself, keep praying about it NB, but I believe that God led you to begin this thread.

God Bless You,

-Caren

The worst thing Jesus ever said to a sinner waa "Go and sin no more". I think you have since kept to that as far as MB principles, haven't you? Much as I respect and follow DR. Bill, MB is not above God. So that puts us all on a level field - common or garden sinners.


BTW
I run a group for marriage problems that is 1,000 strong - some of us would enjoy doing a study like this in the group and some of them would hate us doing it. - lol

If you think you think you could take us on, and really don't wish to do the study here, I would be honored to have you lead those whom are intersted in our group, in a study.

Linda

nb - please forgive my intrusion into your women's thread. I thought I'd read a little of your study in case I decide to take you up on your suggestion about doing a study on the Power of a Praying Husband. I have read JustJ's comments and there is just one point that I wanted to address, but if you'd prefer to not have a "husband and a man's" perspective please say so. I will take no offense and will remove the post so as not to unduly intrude upon your discussion.


JustJ, I read your comments about "male domination" and from a secular standpoint, I think you are correct. You are also correct in that some "religions" of the world, most notably today the Muslim religion, have a twisted, imho, view of women and wives. But the "difference" you are perhaps struggling with is the "Christian" roles of husbands and wives. The reason is that those roles are "defined" by God, not by men or women. Men and women "corrupt" God's design and misuse the roles, and that results in sin. I understand that this may be a "foreign concept" to you, because it takes TWO people, the husband and wife, living in humble submission to God, for it to "work" as God intended. We do not have to "like," from a strictly human standpoint, what God may command, but Christians are nonetheless required to submit their will to God's will when they are in "conflict."

What you said that led me to comment was this following sentence in your post:



One must go back to the Garden of Eden and the Fall to get not only the intent of God's command to husbands and wives, but to understand part of the reason as to why this is so and how "sin entered the world."

While I cannot say with certainty that the following is true, it seems to make sense when considering the "real world" and the real differences between men and women.

God created Eve to be Adam's helpmeet. God did so only after letting Adam be alone and finding out that the company of all the animals was "not enough." Animals are not created in God's image, "Man" is. So God created Eve to be Adam's partner, his helpmeet, his "equal" in being created in God's image. Eve was created by God from a part of Adam, so that she would BE a part of him, separate, but equally the same in spirit, worth, value, etc. She would be "different" than Adam to fulfill the needs that Adam could not find in the animals. While Adam was most assuredly a "logical male," giving names to all the animals, etc., Eve was created with the emotional makeup of a woman, different, yet complementary and NEEDED by Adam.

Then along came Satan.

Who did Satan tempt? He went "after" Eve. Why? I don't know for certain, but I believe that one of the reasons may well have been because she reacted more on emotions than on logic. It has been often said that we should be very careful of our emotions because they can lie to us and cause us to "justify" sin. It appears to have been the same with Eve. She believed the lie of Satan (he only told her part of the truth) that gaining the knowledge of good and evil was a desirous and "good thing" because she would be more "like God." That is the trap that many of us fall into. Being "more like God" is not the goal. Being surrendered to God's will is the goal, regardless of how we might feel.

Still, Eve disobeyed God, and dumb 'ol Adam followed right along with his beautiful wife, and sin entered the world through disobedience.

After that, as God put Adam and Eve out of the Garden, He assigned roles to them. Whether we like the roles or not, they were ordained by God. They affect the ROLES, not the substance of each other. They, in performing those roles, rely on humble obedience to God and sacrificial love toward each other. Get either of those two out of balance, and the roles become corrupted.

In that respect, much of what we are dealing with today can be traced back to the 60's (which I lived through and in) and the "Women's Movement." There are many things related to that, but probably the single biggest "lie" to come out of it was that "women don't need men." Men need women and women need men because that was God's design and purpose.

The idea is that men don't "rule over" women. God rules. Men and women in marriage are "one flesh," not two. They each have roles to perform, but they are equal in, and before, the Lord.

Sin, and our sin-nature, inherited from Adam and Eve, is at the root of the problem. Learning again what God's intent and purpose in the roles is what is important to Christians who are seeking to "do His will" before their own will.

God bless.

Forever-

I would agree with your analogy. I am a woman, but I have never been really huge on the whole women's liberation thing. I WANT to have doors opened for me, I absolutely need a man.

I think in the workplace that a woman doing the same job as a man should be paid equally, but that's really as far as I go with women's lib.

Of course, I can exist on my own, but I do not wish to do so. I wish to have a committed relationship where I can love and take care of my husband.

I know that my view is unpopular with many of my friends, but I have always "taken care" of my husband. I always fixed his plate for him, got his drink for him and/or refilled it when needed. This is NOT because he asked me to do this for him, but because it was something I wanted to do. I have been asked "WHY?! Caren? Why do you do those things for him? Are his arms and legs broken?" Well...no, they're not, but that isn't the point. I love my husband, and he worked hard all day, and I wanted him to relax and be taken care of when he returned home. I actually think I've probably ruined him....because I don't know too many other women who would want to do this for their husbands.

Where I contributed to the problems in my marriage is that there were things that my husband deemed important, that I did not. I didn't keep a very clean house, and I knew that he wanted that, but I didn't see it as important. I now see the err of my ways.

I see God's design now, for the first time in my life.

I had difficultly allowing my husband to be the head of the household because my mother filled that role while I was growing up. It was her way, or the highway.....and it still is, and my father just goes along with it, partly because his mother was also domineering.

I started out my relationship with my husband much the same way, I undermined his authority and had to have things my way. I took care of him, which seems a contradiction, but there were still things that my mother would gripe at me about such as "Why do you have to ask Mark if the kids can have someone over to spend the night?" (my answer, "he's my husband, and it's his house too, so I clear it with him) and "Caren why do you 'let' Mark have those dogs?" (my answer "Well, I don't 'let' him do anything, he's my husband and I don't rule over him, and I like the dogs too")

She couldn't understand why I wasn't like her, why I didn't do things just as she did.

So it was a constant battle within myself, but I would say that eventually the domineering won out, and I am regretful of that.

I have since changed my ways, I know what I was doing, and that it was not in line with God's plan for me or my marriage, and did not allow me to see what was going on right in front of my face when the "A" started to take hold.

I wish I knew then what I know now.

For the husband to be the "head" of the family and the wife to be the heart is as it should be. If you think about it in terms of anatomy.....neither the 'head' nor the 'heart' can function without the other, the head isn't more important than the heart, they are equally important, yet they play very different roles.

Again, with my friends, I can't think of a single one of them who agrees with my way of thinking. They are all still of the mindset, if it feels good do it. I wish that I could show them what I am talking about, but they'll have none of it. They don't understand, that having morals and being committed to my marriage, even though my husband chose to commit adultery, that I still love him, that I still want my family, and that I will continue to try until I am no longer able.

Even my mother disagrees with me, she thinks that I should divorce him. She says she wouldn't put up with my father having an affair. As do most people whose lives haven't been touched by this, they feel....if that happened it would be over.

When I stood up in front of God and my family and took those vows, they meant something to me........people say that marriage is just a piece of paper, but that isn't true....the marriage certificate is not what I hold dear, it is the bond between my husband and I that cannot seem to be severed.

What God has joined together let no man put asunder.

God Bless,

-Caren

Hi Ladies,

Last night I was all ready to disable my account... but read Caren's message first... and all I can say is... it stopped me. It gave me pause. I decided to wait.

Alright, I will dedicate myself to prayer about this again. I can only apologize for keeping you all (especially Y) dangling by a thread. In fact, my prayer will be about how much to be involved, because Y already said she'd do it and I don't think it's fair to leave her dangling (just thinking as I write, as usual).

FH, no worries.

Everyone else, your kind words and prayerful comments have not gone unnoticed. I promise you that I am praying on this... again. I do feel that I was led before, but perhaps circumstances have changed now, so I will pray again.

God bless...

I'm really sorry, guys, but it's time for me to bow out of this group. I really hope you find blessings and comfort in your study.

NB-

I am here for the duration.

Please keep praying about this, I have the strongest feeling about this and have praised God repeatedly for leading me to it.

Pray to be sure that what's going through your mind in regards to your current marriage is really the Lord speaking to you and not doubt creeping in. Pray for clarity.

I have no doubt about you NB, none whatsoever. I believe in you, and I believe in this thread.

Your intentions were pure and helpful, and I do not think they can be misconstrued as otherwise.

The way your marriage started is null and void at this point. It is blessed by God now, as I believe mine is, and I feel the changes within me, and it's nothing short of miraculous.

I just purchased a copy of the book, on Amazon for 1.50 or something, so I could have it. As I said before I want to read and re-read it, as this is an ongoing process.

Please don't let doubt creep in, that isn't God hon.

The initial "lightening bolt" was God.......the doubts are not. The Lord wouldn't make you 2nd guess such a noble purpose.

God Bless,

-Caren

P.S. NB, e-mail me if you get a chance, you are someone I'd like to know better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have to admit that I have been thinking about this situation but not praying so much... at least, about "it"... I had the fourth in a series of scary medical tests today and that's been on my mind, mostly. But what weaves in and out of it (my mind, that is <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) is what's happened here, on this site and on this board, specifically.

I don't know the answers to all this jazz, but I do believe that since Y stepped forward to lead the study, that she should. That doesn't mean I'm not here... and that I won't be reading and responding along...

On my other thread... my original intent was to remove myself from harming others... in the end, as I guess I should have known would happen, I ended up removing myself from harm, as well.

The vast majority of people were very supportive, at least who wrote. I need to remember that... but the main thing: It's those who didn't write that I was writing to most -- if you know what I mean.

Caren, from what I've read of yours... yes, we have some life experience in common, I think. (((((Caren)))))

JustJ, I wish you continued peace on your journey. I never expected you to drop by in the first place... I appreciate your desire to learn something about me, about God, and about yourself. I bet you did all three! (((((Just J)))))

Anyway, I'm here... and will be here...

I would love to be part of this... but first I need to get the book and then join in. I will probably get it through Amazon.com, so I may be a few weeks behind... I've been a praying wife and mother for many years and have already seen the power of God's goodness and faithfulness through those prayers. Lately, I've felt distant from my Lord and want to get back... this could be just what I need!

God bless! roly85

Hi roly,

As you may have noticed, you joined at a rather awkward time around here... "awkward" doesn't seem like quite the right word, either... "weird" maybe. LOL There have been some changes and heavy/hairy/scary discussions on the boards over the last two weeks... some that I was directly in the center of (as only I can be <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. I continually put myself in harm's way - why? A question for another day, perhaps?)

So, does any of this matter to God? YES, it does.

It stopped me cold.

I don't think God appreciated that very much.

The momentum was set and then halted... we were all ready, weren't we?

Okay, so who's still ready to do this study? Anyone?

Please check in and let us know.

StandingTogether, how 'bout we co-lead, along with everyone else. By that I mean, let's all get involved... no leaders, no followers, just us all going forward. How would that be?

Let me... us... know.

Let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Galatians 6:9

I'm still wanting to be here - I've read the first 2 chapters and am reading the 3rd. All appropriate right now - praying for me to the the wife that he needs (i realize I haven't been), for his work (which seems to be rather dead-end career-wise for him right and and isn't going well for him lately) and for our financess (which definately need prayer). In fact - I'm wondering maybe where we would be if I had been praying for these things reguarly all along. I think it's good for me. I wrote out a couple of the prayers in my own handwriting to try and make them more real to me - personalize them a bit.

Just popping in quick to say that I've been working & haven't had time to gather my thoughts. But this week should definitely be the week I can post thoughts on Chapter 1. NB, sounds good!! Only got to read your reply briefly, but I say share the wealth baby! (meaning co-leaders would be a great idea!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Some thoughts on the first chapter: His Wife

Stormie talks about how difficult it is to pray for a husband who is unkind, abusive, etc. This made me think of when I was a BS, and how I prayed my heart out trying to change my first H. We were involved heavily in our church then, and I wanted him to be the spiritual leader I heard so much about. He wasn't a normally unkind man, but he could be... he cheated on me, he called me names, he would NOT lead our family. Our marriage was in deep, deep trouble for years.

But now, I am married to a sweet, tender-hearted man... he hasn't cheated on me, he doesn't call me names, yet he also has some difficulty leading. Our marriage is not in trouble, but we lead troubled lives.

Some of this may be attributed to the fact that this is a second marriage and also because of the guilt associated with our beginnings. Most of all, I feel it has to do with the fact that we haven't gone to church in ages. I came from an Episcopalian church in the States (gave my heart to Jesus at 15), he is Catholic, but feels unwelcome because of his divorce and remarriage.

How to pray around all that junk?

I love Stormie's first perfect 3-word prayer (which, as it turns out, is exactly what I was speaking about to JustJ earlier in the thread)...

Lord, change me.

I can do that. I can pray that.

So, the first person I'm praying for is MYSELF. Interesting.

I understand and appreciate the concepts of making a home for your H, respecting your H, and praying for him even if he isn't a believer... no problems with any of that... but a big part of this chapter is about knowing when to keep quiet and knowing when to speak.

THIS I have a problem with.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I am a talker. I've said things, in anger about our situation (not about him personally)... that I can never take back.

So, she says to keep quiet, pray and pray some more, before I speak.

I don't wanna! <stomping foot>

Shut up and pray.

I can do it, I s'pose, but I don't want to... it feels dishonest. Does anyone else feel this way?

This is something I will need some help with, I think.

Anyway, these are my thoughts tonight...

Hello, everyone. I have this book and it has helped me so much. I keep it in my car and try to read at least one of the prayers for my husband daily. It has helped me (us) tremendously. I am new in my walk and I am so thrilled to find this study group. I would like to join if you'd have me.
Just a thought regarding the prior posts-I know that I have been both very very good and very very bad in my life. I do not want to pass judgement on anyone, I just want to learn from all of you and to pray together. I don't care about what anyone of us has done or been, I just care about where we are about to go!

Dearest Denise, Annie T, FinallyLrning, Daisey_marie, moveforward, roly, cheryl, bjs, carenMc, silverpool, standing together and renee (and hopefully I haven't forgotten anyone!),

Ladies:

Since I began this thread a lot has happened... around this site, and in my personal life.

My heart's desire was to begin (not lead, but begin) this study with Christian women... and we could uplift each other and pray for each other.

When so many of you joined in I was... overjoyed.

I believe the momentum was at its highest about two weeks ago, and I could see that great things were going to happen.

Then life stepped in, as it has a habit of doing.

I have prayed so much about this study, and eventually became confused. God is not the author of confusion... so I know it wasn't His prompting that got me befuddled.

Whatever or Whoever it was, it changed the energy here... clearly.

I allowed my human feelings to get in the way of what God wanted... I wanted so badly to be involved here... but it seems that the drama has scared everyone away!

This book is life-changing and I encourage you to read it and absorb it. I had so hoped that we could rise above the crud and go forward, but it isn't to be. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

None of this is said to ask for anything from you ladies... we ALL have our own stories, our own crosses to bear. None of us would be on MB at all if we didn't have marriage issues, would we?

So, PLEASE do not let what has happened here stop you from doing your study.

I promise you, I have prayed about this extensively and believe I am being led to work on my own walk with God... and alone-time is needed for this kind of journey -- well, in this case, "alone" means just me and God.

I am sincerely sorry that I got you all excited and dropped the ball in the first inning. It seems like the game got rained out after that. I cannot apologize enough.

I really don't know what else to say... except PLEASE DON'T STOP.

God bless each and every one of you. ::::hugs::::

Who can find a virtuous wife?
For her worth is far above rubies.
The heart of her husband safely trusts her; so he will have no lack of gain.
She does him good and not evil all the days of her life.

Proverbs 31:10-12

Well

since I am new to this book ... I thought I'd start at the beginning....

How beautiful is this?

This says to me .... Pep YOU are a precious gift for your husband .... God says so !

[color:"red"]so far .... this book ROCKS !!!! [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Pep

When I think about myself, I don't normally frame myself as a "ruby"

... but, when I frame myself that way ... When I think about being a ruby ... sparkling and warm and of great and rare value ... I feel God entering me...

It changes what I believe about myself.

Do you feel that way too?

Pep

Hey Pep, thanks for picking this thread up. Thanks also for this question.

When I keep my focus on God then I do feel like I am worth something or special.

However the past several weeks my h has revealed some very difficult things to hear and I've taken my focus off of God and onto the things my h has said and I don't feel special or like a gift at all. It's been a struggle.

Hello ladies, having some financial difficulties so phone/internet is off.

I have actually read the entire book, and purchased it for a dollar something on Amazon. And am now reading a chapter a night.

Let me tell you that I have been praying the wrong way the entire time.

I too was praying "Change him Lord" but I wasn't praying with a right heart, and once I began to pray for the Lord to change me and to purify my heart and make it clean before him it has impacted my life GREATLY.

I notice that I have a different take on many things, not just my marriage.

I haven't been praying the right way this entire time. I was praying superficial prayers......bless my kids......bless my husband....keep them safe. Now I pray easily a 1/2 hour every night.

I didn't realize that I should be telling God how I felt.

But listen to this. You are supposed rid heart of all the anger and hatred you feel. I felt this included the other OW. So I decided to try to pray for her. IT WAS HARD.

I said "Lord, I want to forgive this woman, but I don't understand how because I know that I can't trust her....how can I pray for someone who I don't trust?" I got my answer plain as day. It was "Caren, you don't need to trust her, you need to trust me" and it made perfect sense, and I am able to pray for her now.

I'm not just praying that she stays away from my husband, I am praying that she has a heart to receive God and ears to hear what he's saying to her. She is an unhappy person, she has been hurt in all of this too......I have to keep reminding myself of that.

Also it has helped immensley praying for understanding of what my husband is going through.

I have broken Plan B. I believe that the Lord is leading me in this direction.....it was an overwhelming feeling, and I went with it.

The day after the first time I prayed for him when I spoke to him on the phone that night he just blurted out "I LOVE YOU".....I was a little taken aback as he doesn't normally say that....after a minute, I said "I love you too"

He is constantly asking me if everything is okay. Things have improved dramatically since I've begun to pray.

I am on the computer at the library, so my time is limited.

God Bless you all,

-Caren

P.S. I am checking out another book of hers "Just enough light for the step I'm on".

I'm still around - I meant to do a chapter a day but am only at Chapter 4 now - on Finances. I really need to be able to let go and give that to God - it's such a struggle for us financially right now - that it really hit me about giving when we are called to give. That is very hard to do when I don't feel like we can afford to give. I'm embarrassed to say even with tithing - it has been months since we have actually tithed.

I find this verse in chapter 4 to be comforting

"My God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus" Philippians 4:18

that and the end of the prayer seem to be the key point for me out of this praying for dh and myself to "not be anxious about finances, but will seek your kingdom first, knowing that as he does, we will have all we need"

I am really encouraged after reading all the posts about this book. Im going to run to the store and get it tomorrow. Its just what I need. I look forward to reading along with the comments that you all have to share. Thanks for the inspiration. I think it is a really great idea and it couldnt have come at a better time for me. Thank you New_Beginning for setting it up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep & Friends-
I love this verse. I must admit that I don't usually think of myself as a jewel. This verse inspires me and challenges me! It is often hard for me to do good to my husband when I still harbor some anger and resentment. Like Stormie says, though- I need to concentrate more on myself and what value I add to the marriage. Spending more time in prayer, and not doing the 'change him!" prayers, has really turned my focus more on the things that I need to work on and to leave the rest to God. I have been away on vacation, and I want to catch up- Is everyone on Chapter 4?

[color:"red"]This book is REALLY scary ! [/color]

"God would use me as an instrument of His deliverance if I would consent to it."

.... there it is

right there

my first letting go ...

I want to say ... "But what if ..."

and I KNOW how lame that phrase is when talking about the power of God

just when I think I am strong ... I am shown how really afraid I can be

Pep

Hi Ladies,

Thank you so much for keeping this study alive! Many, many hugs!!


I've been thinking about God, this study and my walk with God over the last several weeks.

In this time, I have had several very scary things happen. Health things, adult-kid things, life things.

Somehow, I don't see this book as "that kind" of scary.

But your words, Pepperband, touched me.

Interesting.

...enlightening...

Scary.

PS: CarenMc, I think it was you who mentioned "Just Enough Light For the Step I'm On"... it's excellent.

So glad this thread is being kept alive! I know I've said I would be here, but work keeps getting in the way.

Caren, I think your post has really affected me personally. I think it hits home for a lot of people on a lot of points that I wanted to expand on:


I think "Change him, change her..." can expand into other people in our lives as well. I know I've been guilty of this on many occasions. We're always looking to "change" someone. I think I heard this somewhere, not sure where, but a woman usually goes into a M hoping they can "change" their H into whom they want him to be whereas a man goes in hoping things will never change & his W will stay just as she is. That's a powerful thought. Why go in to change anyone at all? Why must he change, really? We're the ones that grow b/c ultimately, it's all about our own choices that we make & our own growing that the Lord does, not someone else's. And we do that w/almost everyone we come in contact with. We're hoping when we don't see eye to eye that "they" change to see our own POV or bend to our set of rules, instead of just meeting them where they are & building the R that way. We want to stay where we're at b/c it's "too much work" or "we're fine the way we are". Growing is all part of God's plan for everyone. This whole life is a journey, a learning tool.


THe Ultimate Love Language

I think your last quote above reflects upon this section in Chapter One. This would fall under the catetory of "Love Your Enemies", "Pray for those that persecute you". And yes, it IS the ultimate love language. Praying for our enemies or for those that hurt us shows where our heart is.

THis one sentence in that section really stuck out for me: Prayer brings unity even if you aren't praying together. Since H's been home, I've wanted him to take the spiritual guider role in our M & our family. It's taken him a while to do that. And at first, I was so frustrated. I kept saying to God, "I don't want to be the leader anymore. I want to submit & let him handle it." And it didn't happen. Until recently. When I finally learned how to pray for him & give in to the fact that it's in God's timing, not my own, this prayer finally happened. H has even asked that we do a Bible study here at home w/our children, something me & the children did on our own while he was gone. We watch biblical programs together & discuss the Bible often. He still cannot go to church w/us b/c of his work schedule, but his heart is in the right place & every now & then, he'll mention how he's the spiritual leader of the house, not as a way to lord it over us, but when I'm in an uppity mood & trying to usurp that role all over again b/c *I* think he's not doing a good job. I need to learn to trust God. He WILL NOT let me down. He never did & He never will.


I can relate to this so well. I remember the first time H said I love you after he came home. The first couple of months, he slept on the couch & wouldn't really give me hugs & kisses & those words just weren't a part of his vocabulary. He reminded me over & over how if he didn't "feel" it, he would never say it. But, he was going to give it time. So I prayed. I prayed the way Stormie suggested I pray & lo & behold, one day, as I was ending a conversation w/him before he went to work, I wanted to say I love you so much, but I refrained b/c I just "knew" that he would cringe on the other end of the line. Then, w/o warning, he blurted out, "I love you." Taken aback, I said it back to him. I was on Cloud 9 the rest of the day. Finally! Those words were uttered! And he wouldn't just say it, he told me that over & over. He would tell me when he "felt" it. I guess he felt it! That's when I "knew" that God was working profound miracles in our lives. He was continually working behind the scenes & finally we had evidence right before our eyes! Trust in the unseen. Trust in Him. Trust that He "knows" when the time is right. Trust that He "knows" what our wishes are before we even ask Him! Simply trust. Profound message for me that day.

prayer

is difficult for me

when

it involves

making a committment of letting go

I own that

suggestions?

Pep

PS ~~~> at first I wrote "my sense of letting go" ... and I realized this was soft-soaping what I really fear ... what I really fear is committing my life to God ... committment <~~~ something for me to ponder & pray about

help me ladies ~~~> please pray for me to committ & to surrender my life to God !

Pep,

Could you be having a hard time b/c of what you had been through in the past? Once the control comes back into our lives, sometimes we really don't want to lose it again, even if it is to God. What helped me is realizing that God will NEVER hurt me. I can always trust Him 100%, unlike human beings who have that 1% chance of hurting you. God will ALWAYS do what is best for us. Always. We are His children & He loves us. Perhaps if you keep reminding yourself of this daily, along w/just admitting to God that you're having a difficult time in submitting to Him completely, He will listen & help you in that area.

Of course, I will also put in a good plug for you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I think that's so true, ST, about once we've been betrayed in such a horrible way, that it's hard to trust anyone... even God.

I love the poem about God being the weaver... how he sees the underside (the weaving of our life)... and all we see are the strings on top (a jumble)...

I just wish I could see the the underside -- sometimes, at least.

I will pray for you, too, Pepperband. I know exactly what you mean, and struggle with this aspect of my relationship with God, also.

Pepperband-
Letting go is exactly what I have been trying to do. Not letting go as in "all is forgiven and forgotten", but letting go of hurt, anger, disappointment. Realizing that "giving it all to God", does not mean that I forget everything that has happened. It means that I trust in God and I know that no matter what happens, I will be safe. It means knowing that I don't have control over everything (I never did). The only person that I can control is me. I am responsible for my 'walk' and in order to grow into the woman that I am meant to be, I need to relinquish control and trust in God to take me there. My prayers are with you

Thanks ladies ... it really helps.

The adultery/betrayal in our marriage no longer bothers me ... and therefore I cannot attribute my stubborness to anything outside of myself ... my pridefulness is the culprit, rest assured!

I think it is my basic personality .. oh dear! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Funny thing is ... in a crisis, I can actually plug into my faith pretty well ... it is outside of a crisis that I fail so miserably!

I just realized that!

... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Pep

Pepperband,

Don't you think that *everything* that has happened in your life and marriage is what makes you who you are today; including, as you say, your "stubborness and pridefulness"?

So, in effect, it all matters...

In my life, I have found this to be true. And the realization does not make me (or you) a victim of the past... it just shines a little light on the "why" of our behavior -- especially, when deciding about issues as important as trust.

What do you think?

you're correct

sum total

thanks

Pep

NBII

I'm at work eating lunch (Campbell's select traditional Italian-style wedding soup >>> EXCELLENT)

and my H just called me

to tell me (tearfully) how much he loves me !!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

he's not working today, he's home overseeing the remodeling chaos ... he was watching a movie with infidelity sub-plot ... and he just called to say how incredible our lives have become despite that bad time from our past ... I had to share with you .... it's a little embarrasing how much he slurps me ... but. I'll take it ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Pepperband,

Have I told you lately how much I enjoy reading what you write? I dig the choice of words, the analogies and the ~~~>'s and changes of color and stuff. Oh yeah, and the message... the message ROCKS.

And about this particular message: That's so neat!! Incredibly neat!!

(PS: That soup *is* excellent! My mom has a recipe for Italian Wedding Soup from scratch that I haven't tried yet, but it's one of my favorites, too! You've reminded - inspired - me to try it, soon!)

(PSS: Do you like sweet and sour chicken? I have a recipe to DIE FOR... so simple... and EVERYONE loves it. Let me know and I'll post it)

One last thing, about this book ('cause I have to go to work very soon and can't stay on to write)...

I put it away.

I'm awful. <not said tongue-in-cheek at all. I'm not proud of this>

I have umpteen issues going on right now... and unlike you, Pep, I tend to NOT go to God when things are tough. I'm much better at *thanking God* for the good things, not so good at talking/listening with God when crisis comes.

I have no idea what *that's* about.

Sigh.

The more I read through this first chapter, the more I realize that husbands & wives are so connected. What one does will affect the other in everything. I thought maybe we could pull apart this first prayer at the end of "His Wife" & discuss it.

The first paragraph goes like this:
"Lord, Help me to be a good W. I fully realize that I don't have what it takes to be one w/o Your help. Take my selfishness, impatience, & irritability & turn them into kindness, long-suffering & the willingness to bear all things. Take my old emotional habits, mind sets, automatic reactions, rude assumptions, & self-protective stance, & make me patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle, & self-controlled. Take the hardness of my heart & break down the walls w/Your battering ram of revelation. Give me a new heart & work in me Your love, peace & joy. I am not able to rise above who I am at this moment. Only You can transorm me."

Maybe this prayer could help you, Pep in releasing control a little bit to God.

Any comments on it?