Yes, most definitely EXPOSE...That is a MUST!!! I know that some folks on this site have used www.netdetective.com with good result...

Also, I just wanted to reiterate that Plan B will not be effective without a complete Plan A, which includes exposure...Remember also that Plan B is an action taken by you for you, it is NOT a reaction...

Mrs. W

P.S. I think that you may benefit from reading this post by Pepperband on Plan A...

Thanks for all the great information! I will need to read up on all these basics. I think I'm fed up with working plan A, so don't know if plan B is the best to do but would actually be for me. I know I haven't done a "complete" plan A which mean exposure and such. I just don't know if I have the energy/drive to. I still haven't replied to his email...

Orchid: Here's how I would respond - Fine.


Orchid: I would tell him these questions are confusing, ask him to clarify. (that s/b fun). Let him write and you just read. The more time he spends on trying to figure you out, the more can see what he is losing. That is a good thing....in that horrible fog.


Orchid: Better t/b safe and alone than to have to live with a WS. Y? Because with a WS, nothing a BS does is good. You go right, they go left and visa versa. It isn't what you do that is right or wrong it is just the fact that you do it, the WS wants the opposite. Learn this and use this info as a tool to trap and confuse the WS. You do want to confuse the WS because it is easier for your W to escape if the WS is off balanced.

L.

Thanks Orchid!!! I really didn't want to divulge too much of myself and wanted him to think, so I was thinking of not replying but your way sounds so much better. I really don't see his point of asking these questions when he was pretty much the one that got up and left. Funny we play on the same softball team, but he won't talk about this at all in person. We treat each other just like teammates. I hope I get some enlightenment on what I want to do with my life, but only time will tell and it is getting better dealing with not living with him anymore. If you have any other info out there for me let me know. I'm really wondering if he'll write back to clarify, since he's not really much of a person to let you know how he feels. Anyways, thanks again~!

Well I haven't replied, was thinking of doing it tomorrow just to let him think more then all of a sudden I get this and need some advice on interpreting and maybe replying:

"Just wanted to let you know that I was thinking about you and wanted to say that it is very sad that today is our anniversary and we are not together anymore. I miss being with you and I know that I can be very cruel sometimes I have been under a lot of stress at work, my probation should be up in Sept. and I don’t know where I stand with my boss at this point. My boss refused the 1st evaluation that was done. Well, enough of that; the reason that I wanted to e-mail you was mostly because it is a very special day and I wanted to wish you a great day and hope to hear back from you."

Okay guys/girls, just to let you know our anniversary isn't until Saturday and we've been together for about 10 years now. Like is that a slip or what? Any comments/advice are greatly appreciated!!! Thanks in advance!

Bump, anyone have any ideas on this? Would like to maybe send a reply tomorrow. What's the meaning behind this?

I want to say this, but know I shouldn't right?

'What do you mean Sad? werent you the one who left? wasnt it you who moved out at the first sign of 'needing space'? isnt it you who's out there messing around with teenagers, trying to act like someone else? You chose it, now deal with it'

Is there a way to rephrase, but for him to get this point or is it useless? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Beam him up!!!

Seriously, is he a total idiot? - or just play one?

Your proposed response is spot on for rational people.

But he's obviously not rational.

Truth IS stranger than fiction.

Got a lawyer? Recommend you pursue parallel paths.

WAT

My real analysis > he wants you to chase him.

WAT

Yeah he sounds like a moron!! You're right on! Is it best to ignore? Thanks your comments made me laugh!

Another laugh? Like what is wrong with him? Anyone else experience this and what does this mean? Is he trying to get a reaction out of me and how do I respond to this?

AS I WAITED FOR THE ANSWER I HAVE REALIZED THAT THERE IS NOTHING LEFT FOR US TO TALK ABOUT, SO I NEED TO STOP GOING OVER TO THE HOUSE CALLING EVERY NOW AND THEN AND MOSTLY I AM GOING TO START LOOKING AT MY LIFE AS A SINGLE MAN AND START TO THINK AS ONE. I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I AM GOING TO START SAVING MONEY FOR A NEW PLACE AND I WON’T BE ABLE HELP YOU ANYMORE, YOU CAN SELL THE HOUSE EITHER ONE AND MAKE YOUR DEBT GO AWAY. I WALK OUT AS I CAME IN WITH NOTHING EXCEPT THE MEMORIES THAT WE HAVE SHARED, I HOPE THAT YOU HAVE FOUND SOMEONE THAT IS WORTHY OF YOUR LOVE AND I WILL ALWAYS THINK ABOUT YOU IN A VERY SPECIAL WAY.

He may be terminally intoxicated.

Start thinking as a single man? I guess this could be an improvement inasmuch as so far he's been thinking like a single adolescent.

Does he have reason to believe that he's already been replaced?

Regardless, this form of fatalism is common among WSs in the act. A self pity thingy, I think.

He is f'd up right now. Sad sorta, huh?

I strongly suggest a parallel path. Plan B him and seek a legal separation that can ultimately be turned into a divorce wherein you get all the assets, as he offers.

JMHO

WAT

Yeah, really sounds depressed or something. I guess he's using the pity thing in order for me to react. Just when I was getting comfortable, this happens. I suggested counseling, but he doesn't think he needs it and can handle it on his own. Whatever! Anyways, thanks for the feedback.

Just an update: Well we talked a little bit, but there was too much hurt and pain to really finish. So we decided to talk the next day to decide on the future. He says he's sick and tired of being the person he's changed into and wanted to return to his old self. He says he's drank more in the past 3 months than he ever has in his whole life (he even needs to drink to go to sleep). He's also developed a gambling habit according to him and owes people a lot of money (all his bills are late/overdue). He really looked sincere to change and said that the next day his old self would be back.

Anyways, the next day he calls me when he's out of work and says his friend needed to talk to him regarding something important and that he'd call me to come over right after. I told him I"d only wait up for him until 11 pm. I basically had the Emotional Needs Questionnaire and Love Busters Questionnaire to work on so we can better understand ourselves, since he mentioned we don't really communicate much. 11 pm rolls around, I call him and no answer. I call his second phone and he answers and is already with his young friends drinking and playing pool. I made a remark about him still being his new self, and basically he hung up on me. I'm really getting to my wits end and as is, I'm not too much of a patient person. It's pretty sad to see someone whom I've known for years wasting his life away like this. I understand that if a person doesn't want help, then it's a waste of time. I'm not feeling like my self today and was thinking of maybe telling his mother (she knows nothing of our situation and still thinks he's at home). What do you guys recommend and suggest? I really need some advice and yes I know I should've dumped him a long time ago, but it's hard to let go completely when they come back and pop into your life when you're ready to let go.

Cut him loose.

Do not try to be his rudder.

Place the oxygen mask on yourself before trying to help others.

WAT

Thanks, I was totally in control for the past month but his little appearance kind of wrought me out of control again. It's just sad to see this going on and thought by telling his mom she could at least be there for him since I won't/don't want to be. Does cutting him loose require for me to go into plan B or am I just not following any type of plan anymore? I was working on exposing him, but maybe I should just abandon ship? I still care for this man, but like I said don't know if I want any type of future with him anymore other than maybe at most a friend. It's harder now too, since our supposed anniversary is Saturday.

I guess that depends on whether you'd seriously consider a turnaround if he delivers one. - or promises yet another one.

Doing a Plan B letter and going dark in parallel with seeking legal mechanisms to achieve sole ownership of everything you want that is currently jointly owned makes sense to me. If he honors the Plan B request to leave you alone, you relieve yourself of that burden.

Of course, you could skip the letter and just request he leave you alone and go about Plan D.

My only strong recommendation is that you satisfy yourself that you did everything reasonably doable to try to salvage the marriage and/or you're sure you don't want to be married to him anymore. The goal of this is to exit guilt free. When - not if - he comes crawling back, will you be able to say "get lost" without regret?

JMHO

WAT

Wow, you write great stuff. I guess by telling his mom, since she has a lot of influence on his life, would actually satisfy me a great deal. I think that's the reason he's kept it that he's left for so long. If I did this, I think the burden would probably lift off my shoulders. Like I said, I didn't do the exposure that I was supposed to do in plan A and due to this hasn't felt any repercussion. I just feel bad that he is on probation at work and could be let off if I spill the beans but it was his choice to do what he did and maybe wouldn't be a bad idea and could be what he needs to open his eyes up once and for all. He basically responded to me now, because I was not chasing him anymore and moving on (my transition into plan B because I was fed up with plan A) and that's why he thinks I may have someone else.

Thanks a lot for all your words of encouragement. I hope you know that you help a lot of people with your wisdom and knowledge (and some slaps in the face which are always needed/welcome). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Am I still plan A'ing if I'm not telling him about coming back? I basically started letting go and not contacting him/ignoring him? Is it okay to contact his mom even though this could really upset him? The only reason I want to do this is so she knows what he's been doing (drinking). I don't want something to happen to him one day and I get blamed for not telling her. Any thoughts? I'm thinking of probably changing the locks of the house and starting my Plan B very soon, but it sounds like I need a definite plan and was planning on going to the library to read up more on this. THanks for looking!

I think you need to decide if you want to work on the marriage or not.

If you do, it's OK to pull back a bit in Plan A. Let him initiate contact, but when he does, make him feel like he's still loved. No LBs. Absolutely inform his Mom about anything you want - in a loving way.

No changing the locks until Plan B. It's still his home, too.

If the home is in your name only, you have an advantage when it comes to changing the locks and keeping him out. Otherwise you'd need some form of legal separation/Restraining Order to do this (depending on your locale).

I suggest you not do anything outside of Plan A (for interactions with him) until you read Surviving an Affair. This doesn't mean not taking action to safeguard your finances. Cancel all joint credit cards and withdraw 1/2 of all jointly held bank accounts/investments. Not doing so risks him cleaning you out.

JMHO

WAT

Yea, I think I need some time alone to think on if working on this marriage is something I want now. But everytime he peeps up, it throws me back.

I think I was in between plan A and B and I know that's not good. I was acting like I don't care anymore and showing him more that I'd rather separate, but yet still keeping in contact with him and being friendly.

I won't change the locks just yet, except there's one thing. I've been staying at my mom's house and he seems to go to our house every so often and stays and washes his clothes. He's not helping out financially, so I'm not too comfortable with this. I really don't know if he could be bringing people home with him if you know what i mean. And yes, the home is only in my name thank god (purchased before marriage). We also have separate accounts and don't share anything, which is also a plus.

I really appreciate your honest opinions, so please keep them coming. I will check out this book today. Thanks again and please feel free to keep writing!