Hi - Just giving an update to anyone who is interested. Went to court today in relation to getting the prohibited steps order removed so I can return to NZ and agree contact arrangements.

The outcome not too bad, contact whilst still in the UK will stay the same (every Wed evening, and every alternate Sunday 9am to 2pm) unless XWBF reveals his address to me. If he does this every 4th Sunday his contact is 9am to 5pm. XWBF has concerns about revealing address details, his OW doesn't want me to know where they live! So the ball is in his court with regard to spending more time with DD.

Contact when I return to NZ - XWBF proposes to spend 2 weeks twice a year visiting DD. He has to give me a minimum of 2 months notice.

With regard to financial arrangements XWBF claims he wasn't aware that he was meant to provide details of his earning, so no progress there. My Barrister did however get him to agree in the order today that he would cooperate with supplying the relevant financial data. I have been advised to get the Child Support Agency involved to assess his income, at the moment he pays $100 per week, but I think that the 15% that he is legally required to pay would be higher than £100 per week. But he doesn't think so. He is now not prepared to pay anything towards education and health costs. Unfortunately this is not something that the courts can enforce.

The judge removed the prohibited steps order, so I am free to return to NZ when I wish <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So overall not too bad, the contact agreement is pretty much the same as we already have, except OW is now not excluded. I have agreed that OW can have contact with DD, which is something I have been trying to avoid like the plague, but can no longer out run it.

I guess I am feeling relieved, all the contact agreements have been made and agreed in court so they can't be ignored. All I need to address is the financial stuff.

Hi I was just wondering if there anyone else has experienced OW hiding from BS? In my case I have protested long and hard to avoid OW being in contact with DD, but have had to finally fold.

Today was the first day that OW would be in contact with DD. XWBF came around to pick up DD and there was no OW so I thought, not sure if she is going to see DD or not. But when DD came home she told me that XWBF and OW went swimming with her and they meet OW in carpark at swimming pool.

So that means that OW was dropped off at the pool then XWBF came to pick up DD and then went back to the pool. After the swim, XWBF and DD came back to my home and OW waited at swimming pool.

There seems to me that OW isn't prepared to face me, I have nothing to say to her, I did that over a year ago on the phone and that is all I have said to her. I was polite but direct when I spoke to her. This I think has not pleasant for her, and she has been hiding behind XWBF ever since. It is interesting that she is avoids the consequences of her actions of getting involved with a guy who had a partner and a very young child. It also suggests to me that may deep down inside OW isn't too proud of her actions, she knows it was wrong. Am I right?

Just my thoughts, but was wondering if anyone else has experienced the same?

I'd say smash her fears and go find her address. The OW in my case was supposedly scared of me so I made sure I found her address and visited her home. I left a bag of the Ws' dirty laundry hanging from her front door. There's more to that story but you get the pix. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Nah - I don't think she is worth it. For them the games are continuing, I have removed myself from it.

I just thought that now that she is going to be involved with DD that it is time to act like an adult, but it seems I am expecting too much!

Hi Ya

I don't know what to do. XWBF has introduced DD to OW on the last 2 occassions that he has spent time with her. By the way XWBF is pretending that it is only DD and himself involved in the outings. DD has told me that OW was there also. My problem is that when I ask DD some questions about what she did and where she went (I have been very cautious and not pushed it) she tells me she doesn't want to talk about it. This is coming from a 2.5 year old girl. I think that XWBF has told DD not to tell me anything, because he wants to keep the illusion up that OW is not spending time with DD. She is too young to be having secrets, and this sort of responsibility placed on her. I don't think it sets a good example for her on how to deal with situations. I am not happy with XWBF involving DD in this way, it is not fair on her.

I have told DD that she can tell me anything, and we don't have secrets, not sure what else to tell her.

Document, journal. Prepare. You can't legally do anything right now and anything that you do only puts your daughter more firmly in the middle. Anything you say to X will only have his immaturity unleashed more to clamp down on your daughter and burden her with his unwarranted behavior.

The thing is, your daughter knows her parents are at war with each other and that she is the territory to be conquered or won over. If you don't burden her, eventually she will feel safe enough to tell you everything. She doesn't want to get her daddy in trouble.

If you remember what it is like to think like a 3 year old - if your parents were battling each other - you can remember that they will manipulate one side against the other - until they realize that this wasn't what they wanted. (I didn't want to do the dishes one night - stalled and stalled- when my dad came in and saw me at 10:30 p.m. doing dishes (age 5), he beat my mother up and called her all sorts of names - that's when I stopped playing one side against the other - but before then, I didn't know the harm).

At the point you are ready to leave for NZ, only after you have boarded the plane, then you can unleash family services on his behavior - because you won't be kept in the country longer while he further manipulates the situation.

NZGirl, I was in the position after Dday of deciding whether or not to return to England from Asia. My husband was cavorting with a local lady and totally neglected his daughters. For numerous reasons, I couldn't bring myself to uproot the girls from their father. He is just now, after two years, starting to rebuild a relationship with them. He is lucky to have the opportunity and fortunately for him, children are very forgiving.

Your WH hasn't got a clue yet of his loss. He will miss so many precious moments and will never recapture them. It must be a very difficult time for you but I wish you all the best on your return home. I hope you have friends and family ready to help you resettle. I'm also an avid reader of "thought for today" - your efforts haven't been wasted!!

NZ,

I learned something VERY valuable from a colleague that has absolutely nothing to do with separated parents and everything to do with being a parent and protecting your child. He and his wife went to a seminar on protecting your children from child predators. One thing they emphasized is that in every instance, the sexual predator will tell the child it is their "secret" and she/he should tell anyone. As a result, parents should tell their children we don't have "secrets" - call them surprises, whatever, but not "secrets". I have implemented this with my almost 5 year old and it has been brilliant. Now, if we use the word "secret" he will tell us "NO SECRETS!" One of the boys at his school wanted to tell him a secret and my son shouted "NO SECRETS" at him! LOL! Perhaps if you implemented this, it would kill two birds with one stone? Just a thought...

BB

ITA with BB and add what my mom used to tell me:

"The only GOOD secrets involve Christmas and birthdays."

Hi TT

Thanks for the reply, it is a difficult situation, but I been through it many times and am happy with my decision to return to NZ, he knew that was going to happen some time, DD and Me are trying to get on with our lives the best way we can given the cirumstances.

Re thought for the day - pleased you are getting something out of it. It is my way of trying to put something back in as a way of saying thanks for all of the support and opinions I have received from this site.

Sorry to hear about your situation, it is hard to deal with it when you are so far away from your family and friends, you sound like you are doing a great job.

Thanks - that was one of my concerns, it will teach DD that secrets are ok, good and bad ones which she may not be able to distinguish between, this is not what I want, due to the potential risk and position it puts DD in.

Thanks for the advice and LOL re your son and his school friend, the message is loud and clear with him.

Agreed - but we will be calling them surprises!

Thanks KA

I have started to document everything a long time ago. I talk to an IC every week and we discuss the issues that have arisen, and we discussed this on Sunday. Her advice was to ask XWBF if there was any reason he could think of of why DD seems upset and doesn't want to talk about it after his Sunday visits. And to state that if this has to do with OW then I don't think it fair that DD should have any responsbility for the situation. Not sure if I will use this approach but am thinking about it.

I just wanted to point out that we are not at 'war' and DD is not witness to any discussions we have about her. She may pick up on the fact that I don't have a lot of warm fussy feeling for XWBF anymore though! But I try to keep that hidden.

I am not sure how to handle this situation.

XWBF lately has been very pleasant and has even offered to do stuff for me which I haven’t asked for. E.g fix the puncture on my bicycle. This is very strange, we have not long gone to court to agree visitation (even though we had an agreement in place already, but it exclude OW from being on contact with DD), and to get agreement to leave the country with DD permanently.

I have been in a kind of plan B mode for sometime now, I don’t ring him, I don’t really interact with him when he is visiting DD, in fact I have lately been going to my bedroom to read my book upstairs, only to be interrupted by XWBF playing games with DD which then end up in my bedroom.

The cynic in me thinks he is only being nice to try to make things easier on him. His parents are about to arrive in the UK from Australia on holiday and I think he doesn’t way any home truths revealed and wants to put up the front that we are on good terms. I also have a request in with CSA to access his income to make sure he is paying the right amount of child support based on his income.

Since going to court he has been pretending that it is only Him and DD that go out every second Sunday, even though DD tells me OW is there also (they pick her up down the road). I don’t know why he is doing this – seems silly really.

This is all very confusing – I am now finding myself battling with him to keep the distance, whereas before he was the one wasn't available. I am doing a kind of plan B in order to move forward with my life and to not have to deal with him. I find it is easier this way. I am thinking I need to get better at enforcing my boundaries, so I don't get caught up in all the mess again. Any thoughts on the above?

NZGirl,

Sounds like he is putting on a show which is always a temporary thing. The silly part is that others can see it as temporary also but the WS are stupid enough to think they can even pull it off.

IMHO, stick to your plan B. When his parents come, treat them well and always be civil. Not mushy or over friendly with the WS but imagine showing open displays of affection with is parents and not him in front of them. Yep, that c/b done.

Blow his cover. Then see how he reacts. He has to see the consquences of his actions.

So what is he going t/d about the OW and his parents? Tell them she is the babysitter? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> BAD!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> EXPOSE!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Thanks Orchid

Yes I agree, it is a show, a show that is there to try to make things easier for him.

I not sure about the OW and his parents, I sent them an email over a year ago telling them what he and OW were up to, I never heard back from them, so am not sure if they received the email or not. If they didn't receive the email, then XWBF would have told his parents that he and OW got together after we had separated. When you say expose are you referring to exposing the affair to them?

I am not sure if I will be seeing his parents, XWBF will probably want to keep some distance there for worry that I might drop something into conversation that he doesn't want them to know. He has phoned today and left a voice message asking me to call him, I can only imagine that his parents want to see DD and he wants to change our contact arrangements again. I really feel like the bad person if I say no, but I am tired of having to change things around to suit XWBF life because he is too shortsighted to plan ahead and organise things in advance. Their trip to the UK has been planned for over a year, so he has had plenty of time to put things in place to ensure they get to spend time with DD. If he wants to change things around again, I am going to say no and refer him to our court order that was finalised a month ago about contact. He can use the agreed contact arrangements in the court order for his parents to spend time with DD.

Is this being too inflexible?

Hm... big delimea here. His parents are in town. May or may not want to see dd. Ws not giving you much notice or info.

I would let the WS know that you want to make arrangements for the dd to see her grandparents. Then tell him to either give you his parents # or have them call you. Pull him out of the pix. It will lessen his ability to paint the picture in his favor. If he refuses, you have the option to keep your daughter with you. Then send a letter to the grandparents home explaining why their granddaughter was not able to visit with them. I would state that since he left his family, WS has not been a stable person so it has been difficult for you to let your daughter be alone with him for any given amount of time. Let them know there are OW(s) in the picture and the safety of your daughter is important. Let them know he refused to allow your dd to visit with is parents. Something like that.

WS' hate when doubt is thrown their way.

JMHO,
L.

You have a good point, it is a 180 degree approach to the bull that XWBF has been most likely feeding his parents. I will certainly consider it. I know where they will be staying (with relatives) so I will be able to ring there myself and make the arrangements.

The phone call yesterday was to try and arrange sometime with DD this weekend instead of last Sunday. I said no, based on the fact that last Sunday was his time with DD and he couldn't make it and we have other plans for this weekend. I am assuming that his parents want to see DD but he just isn't going to tell me that.

As suggested by Orchid. I have decided to make contact with XWBF parents whilst they are in the UK to see if they want to spend some time with DD. Any thoughts on the channel to approach them? Telephone or letter, I know where they will be staying so neither is an issue. Below is what I plan to communicate, has anyone got any suggestions to improve this?

'Hi
I heard you were in town and assume that you would like to spend some time with DD. XWBF hasn't communicated any arrangements so I thought I would check with you to see if we can make some plans so you get to spend time with DD.'

NZGirl,

"I heard that you were in town and I was wondering if you would like to spend some time with DD?"


I just took out the assumption and gave XWBF parents the choice if they want to see DD. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I can't think of any valid reason why they would not; but we don't know what XWBF has been telling them.

The answer that you get will be an indication of what your future relationship with XWBF parents will be like.

Hopeing for the best for you & DD. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />