In another thread, Ears Open suggested I start a topic for advice on the biggest problem with my M. Finances have been the longest standing conflict, and probably at the root of the current crisis.
Quotes are from the original thread:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=2&vc=1
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I suspect an active or pending A and am sure of a prior indiscretion. This may not be classic plan A, but I am using the Plan A tools in a general sense.
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Then I urge you to get over to the GQII board ASAP to get advice, there are veterans there that can help you get to the bottom of it. From what I've read over there, the key of Plan A is to eliminate the affair, and eliminating LBs and meeting ENS alone doesn't do it, there is still the secrecy that makes the affiar more alluring, which is why exposure is key.
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The second job is a good example. For months he would complain about not enough money, and demand that I find a second job. I wasn't eager to take a second job, (actually a third, I have an in-home enterprise that provides a small cash stream) but could see the necessity. So I looked, and did not find one quickly...H is impatient 'I have a second job! Wheres YOURS?".
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Okay, so did you take the job because you were enthusiatic about it? Was it a SD on his part, or did you agree that you need to work a second job? Intent matters. Resentment is a Love Bank drainer.
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Then I find a job. Well, that's a problem too...H says "I hate it that you do that, why did you take such a scummy job? Why can't you get something better? So an So's wife makes XXXX a year"
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How did you feel and respond when he said that? Are you happy with your second job? With your salary? Did it sound like verbal abuse to you? If that was the case, how can you protect yourself?
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Then followed by "I need you to put $50 in my checking account or I'll bounce another check."
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How can you respond to demands like these?
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This was pretty much the scenario of our most recent BIG fight. He disses my efforts to meet his demand and then makes another demand! I was just ENRAGED!
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Anger is an important emotion. It tells you when you are putting someone else's values higher than you own. But what you do with your anger is important, too. How do you express yourself when you're angry?
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He knew his checking balance was O or close to it, still had gone right out and used his debit card to make a few purchases of things we could easily have waited for. And yes checks did bounce...to the tune of more than $200. Mighty fffing expensive t-shirts, huh? Of course to him the bounced checks were my fault because I failed to get the money for him.
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Do you see the DJ in there? IMO, it's a good thing that you allowed him to experience the consequences. State your truth, he doesn't have to agree.
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The conversation you outlined above would have been more appropriate...But until I can get him to drop his defenses, and want to listen, anything I say will fall on deaf ears.
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So how can you protect your finances? Have you been to a MC? You may want to start a new thread about finance disagreements in a marriage, we have some veterans in that!

Reply to Ears Open
1. Yes, I am posting in GQII. Lots of good support.

2.Okay, so did you take the job because you were enthusiatic about it?

Yes I was quite willing to take a job that met certain criteria, Close by, Evening or weekend hours only and flexibility.

3. I am not completely happy with my 2nd job. It meets all of the criteria I was looking for, but....My last paycheck from it just bounced. (Employer says bring it by he'll cash it out, if he's good for that, I'm fine with the job.
(It does make me one of the most despised employed people in America - this job status is somewhere between dogcatcher and panhandler)

4 Yes, that's verbal abuse. Thats when I began to get really upset. H says he does that because wants to "motivate" me to "improve"

5 (Then followed by "I need you to put $50 in my checking account.... How can you respond to demands like these?)

Good Question. He has ticked off my co-workers by repeated phone calls to me at work, demanding to talk to me..to demand that I deposit money...even when I've told him repeatedly that I Don't HAVE $40-$50 $100 in my checking account. I've asked him "Why is it any better that I have an overdraft fee than you?" He then says I should ask my mother, sister, boss, etc. for a helping hand. I've hung up on him, yelled at him, even simply put the receiver down on the desk and let him holler into the air. (He finds this particular method inexcusably rude) HE WILL NOT GIVE UP! He just doesn't hear NO.

6.(How do you express yourself when you're angry? ) In years past when H and I had disagreements like this, and he would not hear my calm explanations, I would clam up, or leave the room, or the house...sometimes he would follow me yelling. His view is that my removing myself was "sulking" "childish" and "running away from the problem"

During the past year I've started using the kind of verbal abuse he uses. And I've been sarcastic "but don't you LIKE it when I stand my ground and speak YOUR language?" This pisses him off to the max, came close to hitting me after a comment like that.

6.(Do you see the DJ in there? IMO, it's a good thing that you allowed him to experience the consequences.)

Yes, I do. But there were consequences for me too. We were short for the mortgage after those bounced checks fees. Past 30 Late again.

7.(So how can you protect your finances?)
I have my own checking account where my paycheck is deposited.
We had a joint account, where his check was deposited, that I could access. Only once did I ever make a 'raid' on this account without his knowledge and agreement. Once or twice I researched his account history to find out where the money was going. Not pleased by some things I found.

Last year (with his agreement) I changed the password on my checking so he could not access it.

One of the results of the recent overdraft debacle was that he opened a new separate checking account at another bank. He was mad at the first bank being so mean and took away his business. (Leaving $300 neg balance in the old account, which of course has my name on it too) I cannot access this account.

Soon the bank will raid my personal account for this overdraft on the joint account. So maybe I should have given him that $50 after all. (Except I didn't have it)

I refuse to have a credit card, because if I a have one H will insist that I charge on it, or spend the budget because if we come short on an important bill, I'll HAVE to charge it on the card. All his cards are charged to the max.

How the ****** CAN I protect my finances?

I think you have a real problem with your husband's compulsive spending.

I would separate my finances from his, and each of you put money towards the mortgage.

My WH was a compulsive spender, and nothing I did helped. I worked 2 jobs, worked OT, did without Christmas - it made no difference. Any chance he got to charge, he did. I paid off charge accounts with my OT, and he charged them back up to the max in 24 hours.

Things won't get better until he takes some responsibility, so in the meantime, I would protect myself.

I had to pop in and tell you that I read your thread title as EO bankrupting you...and wanted to discover how she did that through posting...darn. Bait and switch here.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Believer's advice is right on...that's what I did, separate finances, and I wanted to tell you that it was a big emotional decision for me...shared money meant shared love, dreams, effort, etc. Guess what? Not true...all me and my symbols askew.

Here's how I separated our finances...

Left the general bill paying account in tact...removed H's access...he was the primary, so this took his consent. He opened his own account...his name only...I opened my own, as well (checking and savings)...H's check was direct deposited to the general account...where I auto-paid monthly bills out of (such a blessing)...my paycheck was direct deposited to my own account...and I would transfer funds from it to the main one...and pay H a check each month.

I set up a spreadsheet listing all the regular pays...mortgage, utilities (you know the drill); I included a set amount for groceries (nice round number); dentist and orthodontist bills, school supplies, kids bdays, etc...reasonable stuff...

I totalled that month sum...then I recorded total amount H's paychecks paid in that month...and separately, my own...I divided (by formula) in half the total bills and then subtracted that amount from H's gross...and paid him that amount.

Yep.

Same for me...

I printed out the spreadsheet each month and auto-paid his check (which mails) to him the same day every month...

He paid for his counselor and any credit cards he opened, car purchases/repairs and gas...and any other bills he incurred, out of his account.

Same for me.

What a difference in my love bank! I could do my finances my way...and not worry about his...at first, he borrowed, for the first two months (he had to get the hang of it)...once I established this spreadsheet, that stopped...and as his paychecks had bonuses or an extra payday, he got more due to the formula...and I split the tax refund...that got him going...and I respected that what was his, was his.

He wanted to take me to dinner on his dime? Cool. If I wanted to take him, I paid...out of our separate accounts. Acts of love without the responsibility of what wasn't mine...freedom is glorious...and I stopped creating my own resentment...and when I gave him gifts, they were from ME...my own...and when he did, wow...they meant more...

By the third month, no more requests to get by...I told him ahead of time that I would not do it. Adjustment period, then boundary enforcement. I used, "I respect your judgment. I know you are as capable as I am."

How are your boundaries? Enforcing your boundaries is pre-determined and progressive. You lay out...if you request more money than you've earned, I will say no. If you ask again, I will hang up on you if you call, walk away in person. If you ask again, I will not take your calls or I will the leave the house. If you ask again, I will move out.

I believe your H hears "No"...he doesn't see it.

How he sees your pre-stated, pre-determined and progressive enforcements is his...not yours. You know you are doing it from love and respect...for him and yourself. No LBs in it. If you fluctuate, fail to enforce or react instead of act, you are the one betraying yourself...not him. Know this deeply...you may secretly like the dance you've been doing...we don't do anything without a payoff...even a false payoff...find yours...how it may meet ENs in an upside down fashion...money and love can be enmeshed and feel like the same thing...becaue it IS an Emotional Need...

Find the roots of your symbols, what money represents inside of you...do not bash or back away from your own truth...it's yours and it isn't wrong...may very well be surprising!

Remove your name from all joint accounts...his stand alone. Yours stand alone...the general one has your name only...and you verbally declare it the general...not in writing.

Remove your name from his credit cards...this does NOT protect you in shared marital debt states...however, it shows fiscal intent...and that general account delineates between partnership and personal responsibility (best I could do...but then, I wasn't gonna divorce...I wanted to save the darn marriage). And I did all this while WH was in an affair, too...and we've continued like this for a year and a half...there are benefits for your love bank.

Use the same boundary enforcements for verbal abuse...eliminate your own LBs from your beliefs and permissons...for you...not who you really are, anyway.

I found the respect I gave my H...acknowledging he was separate, equal and capable was really important. The protection I gave myself was invaluable, as well. What I do for myself, I do for others. That's what I discovered.

You can do this, GA...and you can live abundantly in many ways...not defensively.

In your corner,

LA

Loving Anyway...

THANK YOU! I'm going to print out your post and study your spreadsheet method when I can pay closer attention.

I do think that we should have separate finances, my biggest worry is his bullying when he's fallen short and I stand my ground. He can get really mean if he's not getting his way.

IMO One problem is that his grandparents were very comfortable financially, and were always willing to come running with open checkbooks. H's mother never had to keep a job...even after her divorce..her parents bought her a house, and bailed her out of financial difficulties time after time. Same with my H, until the G'parents were gone (8 yrs ago now) he could always get money from them.

The mother and G'parents also found the material display of prosperity very important...The car, the home, the clothing.... The lack of attractive goods was deemed a lack of personal worth.

So my H finds going without very difficult, and he lack of attractive goods is very threatening to his self esteem.

(Just my inner psychoanalyst rambling on)