Good morning. Looking for words of wisdom here...please read. I've posted my story before, others have said to get out of the M. I still believe in my M and want to save it.



H and I met 9 years ago, married 5/18/02. I have a 12 yo D from a previous relationship – H adores my girl, the two of them have always been very close. D has visitation with bio Dad, but their relationship is strained as he did not have contact with her for several years. H and my relationship – pretty volatile – both of us stubborn and independent, both with an angry streak…but we do have a deep love for one another.

Affair #1 – August 2002 – yes, that is 3 months after we got married. OW was 20, H was 32…OW pursued H relentlessly, making her intentions clear even in front of me…H denied anything for awhile but the s%it hit the fan in Sept and I knew he was having an A– I asked H to leave our home and he did for 3 months. Continued A because OW lived closer to his parents where he was staying (WISH I had discovered MB then!). H back in home by Dec – we go on belated honeymoon – come back to false NC, he continues A until Feb, then finally NC established. OW ends up marrying her cousin in order to stay in the country; now has a child.

I did IC for awhile, we did MC for awhile, then it just tapered off and we stopped. I never got over A#1 – never forgave H. Instead I wallowed in the pain and betrayal and became very bitter and angry. To make matters worse, I ramped up an already questionable drinking issue….i wanted to be numb, and drinking sure helped that. H gave up going out except with me and D, he gave me all access to passwords, emails, cell phones. I never let it go – three years after D day I was still bringing it up, still bitter, still drinking.

Fast forward to A#2. May 2006 H has to go out of the country to train employees for 2 weeks. We’ve been slogging along in our marriage, neither of us particularly happy, but neither of us changing anything either. Even so, H is quite emotional about leaving us, as am I. We talk every day during the 2 weeks, he emails many times during the day; always I love you and miss you. We have one tiff when I call the night before he is to return and he is at a bar with his co-workers and he is short with me, asks if we can just talk the next day. He calls the next morning and apologizes for that.

H returns from the trip 6/4/06 – D and I are not home when he gets there. When we return, H gives me a small hug and a peck on the lips…this after 2 weeks away. My stomach lurches but I say nothing…until the next day when I attempt to be affectionate again and H pulls away, then says ‘we need to talk later’. So….later comes and it all comes out….H has met someone on his trip. He has known OW for one week – I get ALL the typical WS blabber…I don’t need to re-hash that with you guys.

For the first week I LB all over the place - - crying, begging, angry, etc. H says he wants a D, he thinks we will both be better off, I should find someone else too, blah blah.

I exposed to mutual friends, not family yet – there are just too many things going on with family to expose this now.
Friends have told H he is ‘crazy’, 2 won’t return his calls, H still so in the fog that this isn’t registering at all.

A month after he returns from the trip H tells me he loves OW. H has not said I love you to me since D-day. However…H is still affectionate - hugs, still a kiss goodbye every morning, still calling me ‘honey’…that kind of stuff. H loves backrubs and asks for one every night…but that is the extent of our touching. No SF since DDay; I want to initiate but fear rejection.

H is still at home but also still in contact with OW daily via phone and txt messages. H has not spoken about divorce in weeks though….put his wedding ring back on after having it off for awhile…H has been talking about the future with us, not OW.

I have been plan A-ing pretty well lately – my main LB’s have been 2 times when I have been drinking and angry..but other than that I have not touched alcohol in more than 2 weeks – for me this is a big deal. I have lost 20+ pounds and look and feel better than I have in years- H notices and tells me this, said this morning I looked good.

The big issue for me right now is about enforcing NC with OW – I have asked, H says he will stop talking to OW when he sees I have ‘changed’ (meaning the drinking and the anger in particular). I think he is stringing both of us along, IMHO. I have changed a lot (Thank you Plan A!) and H knows this…I think he is getting off on fence-sitting; enjoying his ‘new’ wife but keeping the OW too.
H says ‘just a couple of weeks’ then he will tell OW he can’t talk to her anymore. That was a week ago. I don’t know what to do – give an ultimatum date?? We are taking a wonderful family vacation later in Aug and I do not want OW a part of that…do I use that as a factor – if you have not established NC then you cannot come with us on vacation? I don’t know….

To add to this post, last night he turned to me in bed and said ‘I don’t know what to do’. I fumbled a bit with my answer – what, he wants advice from me re: OW?
My response went something like this: “I can’t answer that for you. I wish I could tell you something that would make you say ‘great, now I know what to do’ but I can’t. What I can tell you is that I believe in you and I believe in our marriage…and I think you know how much I love you.’

I asked if he wanted a D and he said no…I left it at that, didn’t want to LB. Did I handle this the right way? When he initiates and wants to talk about things I get really nervous about saying the wrong things, not saying enough (or too much!) etc. How do you deal with this?

So there you have it – I tried to be short but wasn’t, sorry! Any advice, suggestions, etc, will be very much appreciated!

In my opinion it's time for him to get off the fence. It's time for you to insist on NC. Have him write the letter and show it to you before he sends it to her. You are letting him have his cake and eat it too, and it's time for that to stop.

Good luck!

Thanks atlast...I have told H that NC is necessary...H has said he 'just wants to be sure' he is doing the right thing.
So, do I insist again, and if NC is not established within, what time frame? A week? A few days? Then go to Plan B??

I have such a hard time with this, because my Plan A seems to be getting through to H except for the continued C with OW...this is only phone contact at this point as OW is 1600 miles away.

You handled the bedside conversation perfectly.

Here is a list of Plan A do's and don'ts I kept in my wallet last spring. Hope it helps. He's home and doesn't want a divorce. OW is 1600 miles away. Contact is limited to the phone and text messages. Keep attracting him back and if he tries to make plans to meet up with OW you simply say "no...that is unacceptable". Don't argue or give in to his manipulations. If he goes anyway, Plan B....if not, how long can it last. Especially, with a wonderful wife at home.

This time RECOVERY. Real RECOVERY, must occur....or you need to be prepared to get out of it yourself. Remember, Plan A is about YOU becoming a better wife, MOTHER AND INDIVIDUAL.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Here is the prior post to a man in your similiar position. Just change the pronouns around. Also, I think you must have a date upon which you intend to end Plan A if the present situation continues. Harley says, and I agree, Plan A should not be as long for woman as for men.

[color:"red"] Waywards usually do this. They take a step towards you and you respond appreciatively...you acquire Hope and push for more, more, more. You hunger for HOPE and they fear it. WS's don't feel worthy of it and are holding on to so much of the rationalizations and justifications that they can't see straight YET. They fear hurting you further, hurting their family further. They fear you are placing much more significance on each step forward than you should cause they legitimately and quite necessarily DON'T FEEL IT...YET. So they slap you down and retreat. Hence, the step backwards.

When you detach from the rollercoaster and allow her to proceed at her desired speed you can hopefully minimize the steps back. When you believe yourself to be the obvious choice, acquire patience and the confidence that she would be a fool not to recommit to you, then you become the confident, unpressing, man that swept her off her feet so many years ago. She can more easily recommit to the man she saw back then than she can to the devastated man she sees before her.

Let it go, OM's out of the picture...this is just you and her now (I think). Try to date her. Movie dates suck cause you can't talk but those are the kind of dates you want now. Consider loud restaurants, clubs and bars. Activity based dates where you are not seated facing each other force to have that “serious talk”. But if she won't date you go out yourself and either have fun or feign fun. She'll eventually reconsider and follow along.

Mr. Wondering

P.S.- I kept the following list in my wallet and reviewed it many a night last spring to keep me on track.

Do's
1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over...I will make it
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond her comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way)
6. Expand your social relationships
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tomorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....let her judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends involved in recovery
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be her idea)
10. Tell her continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP [/color]

Mr. W - - thank you!!!! Really, truly what I needed to hear, and I appreciate your advice.

I am feeling very good today, as OW committed her own LB this weekend...by calling OUR HOME # - at 12:30 a.m. no less.

H says 'it's not that big of a deal' but I know better.
H hadn't called OW all day or night on Sat, you see - and OW apparently didn't like that.
Phone rings at home (we were just walking in the door, had been at a friends together having a wonderful time, thank you) - H asks me what's on caller id...i read it off not knowing the # and H does not sound happy. I ask is that her? H says yes.
I did great, considering. I calmly said I was very upset that OW would call our home; that this was not acceptable at all. No yelling, no tears. H said he would make sure that it never happened again.
Don't know what conversation was had, but OW was still ticked off about something the next morning as H phone buzzed 3X within a 5 minute time frame - OW texting. H reaction? A large, frustrated sigh. Did H still talk to OW? Yes...but it seems like the fog may be lifting some more, thanks in part to OW!!!

I WILL MAKE IT!

Sounds like you are flipping roles nicely.

Before - You were the outsider, the intruder to THEIR fun.

Now - She is the outsider, the intruder into YOUR fun.


Perfect time to say jokingly, you've got a wife and daughter, do you really need MORE women in your life, I know you don't want to be mean, you made promises to her and you feel bad, but she's a big girl, playing big girl games....let's get rid of her now before this intrusion in our lives REALLY begins to get out of hand. I am here to support you ending this.


Play with the wording a bit to suit you. But doing it TOGETHER, making the decision TOGETHER, emphasizing how much you like doing this TOGETHER again...just reinforces the marital bond and the inevitable decision that must be made.

Good luck,

Mr. W

Yes! Exactly! The flipping of roles was so true - and H made it a point on our way home to say how much fun we had that night, before OW decided to add some of her drama to the evening...

I will talk to H as you suggested with a plan to rid ourselves of this drama together...perfect!