the MB main site, suggests that the FIRST step of ending an affair, is to negotiate NC, then keep work on building love units, etc, etc.

I dont see how this is remotely possible in my case. she's still in fog, and doesnt think that making our marriage better is possible. Obviously, if she broke off contact with this guy, the fog would clear, and rebuilding would be so much easier. But it seems like I "cant get there from here". (She's moved out, btw).

Does anyone have any experience in getting a WS to do NC, when things are this bad? Or am I basically stuck until her withdrawal level is lower, and I've built enough love units to where she's down to fence sitting?

techie, Plan A also involves doing things to damage the affair, such as exposure and speaking honestly to her about your feelings of the affair. Exposure is simply ruinous to affairs and is the most potent weapon you have in your arsenal. Affairs thrive on secrecy and when you remove that, it causes great conflict, and second thoughts about the affair.

This coupled with an earnest attempt to attract her back is often very effective. However, it is usually necessary to go into Plan B at some point if the WS is cake-eating and sitting on the fence.

Here is a good overview of Plan A:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

ok, techie, I read your other posts and see that you didn't listen to their advice to expose the affair because it would "make her mad." That's cute and precious, but will not help you a whit in saving your marriage.

Let me explain why exposure is so effective. An affair is based on a fantasy or an addiction much like crack or alcohol. Exposing the affair is much like turning on the lights in a crack house and bringing in a crowd of people. What crackhead would want to smoke crack in full view of others? Not many.

Exposure forces her to see how silly she looks through the eyes of others when she is forced to explain her actions. They don't look so cute and wonderful in front of others, they look SLEAZY and IRRATIONAL. So, it is through exposure that a cold splash of reality is inflicted on the affair.

To NOT expose is to PROTECT HER AFFAIR. Helping her hide her dirty secret HELPS her affair THRIVE and CONTRIBUTES TO YOUR OWN DEMISE. The affairees thank you for your help!

But your children don't, because you are not helping them by helping the affairees destroy their family.


Hopefully, you won't continue with this nonsense. No one has the right to the privacy to destroy you behind your back. As her husband and the protector of your family, you have an OBLIGATION to snoop on her if you have reason to believe she is harming you.

You SHOULD be asking about the other guy and you SHOULD BE snooping as much as possible.

Are your children exposed to her sleazy boyfriends?

it's a long distance relationship. online and phone. so no exposure to kids currently. I told her mother about it. I indirectly referenced it to her father as well.

Unfortunately, her mother has always told her the attitude of, "if one of you is attracted to someone else, you owe it to the other person to let them know, before you pursue it".
Now, she broke even that, by not letting me know. But according to her mother's view on marriage, she isnt doing that much wrong. also, her mother thinks that just about anything that isnt actual sex, is fine and I have no right to complain about "flirting". sigh.

There is no support from her family for, "do everything you can to work it out between you.".
SO, even though I have exposed to some degree... it doesnt help much.
in my case, exposure does NOT seem to be "ruinous to the affair".

most of her family is divorced already. ALthough she's the first one that is the CAUSE of the divorce. But they're already quite comfortable with the whole "split family" notion. it seems like its just another one in the family history to them, rather than a huge bad thing.

So the ONLY thing I have to work with to get her back, is her feelings, seems like.
Hence, the "dont want to piss her off" part.

But all that being said.. you still didnt answer my most important question from my first post in this thread, about:

?

techie, I DID answer your question and you fluffed it off. In order to get the WS to end contact you must do things that cause conflict in the affair. But if you won't do anything, she won't have ANY REASON to end contact. Why would she end contact?

Secondly, have you sat down BOTH her parents and explained to them that she has left so she can have an affair? Let them know you are trying to save your marriage and ask for their support in persuading her to end her affair.

Then get on the phone and call other key family members like sisters, brothers, grandparents. Who is this OM? Do you know who he is, where he lives? Is he married? Can you istall spyware on her computer and find out?


"Not pissing her off" is not a strategy for anything. Especially when we are talking a person who is hellbent on destroying your marriage. That is nothing to strive for since it only means you are doing nothing to stop the destruction, but only APPEASING HER. Appeasement only HELPS her in her destructive path and will get you nothing.

Do you have his phone #? Have you done a reverse lookup on this guy and checked his background? You can do a reverse lookup at www.anywho.com and then look him up on www.peoplefinder.com or www.zabasearch.com to see if you can find a name of any family members. You could also call his phone # and ask for Mrs. XYZ and if a woman comes to the phone tell her about the affair.

If he is married, a phone call could very well ruin this affair immediately, or at the very least, cause so much conflict that it hastens its death.

Mel is so right here. There is no way for you to break up the affair without action.

That action starts with exposing. Expose to her friends, people where she works, her family.

Find out who he is and expose to his family as well.

Sin thrives in the dark. That is why it is so important for you to bring this to the light.

Exposure should be done in one fell swoop. Do not warn your WW that you are going to expose.

Have a list of phone number, emails, etc. Do it all at one time so that she can not spin her own story.

She may be mad at first, but isn't alittle mad better than her never coming home?

Exposure and truth is light shining light of day onto a vampire...IT KILLS IT. plain and simple.

Exposure does piss em off. Sure does. BUT IT KILLS THE AFFAIR TOO.

You don't know jack about this OM. This man who could potentially be around your kids. This man who is A MARRIAGE TERRORIST. You don't know what they're planning.

But a hit of exposure? Voila. Does the trick.

Memorize the STICK OF A.

There is a stick.

You're doing only the carrot. And when as a bS we're not even really regarded whatsoever to the addicted mentally fogged out psyched out WS, they don't notice your kind deeds or good efforts. Sometimes it just makes em' eat a bit more cake..

It's like this..(mental picture). You are BAKING HER A FLUFFY CHOCOLATE CAKE for your WW. She is sitting on a fence in the backyard. Beside your WW on that fence is the OM. He's sitting there and they're gushing over each other eating a fluffy vanilla cake together. You ask her to come down from the fence because it's the right thing to do and ONLY EAT YOUR CAKE. She declines. And then in the same breath she asks you to rush out and buy for her a cusion for her fence sitting as all the time on that fence with the OM has chaffed her buttocks.

What could get the WW off the fence? What if the family friends, neighbors, minister, and the whole world saw this wife of yours stupidly sitting on her fence eating cake night and day, ignoring her family responsibilities and duties, being unfaithful, and doing only what she wishes to do? What if they saw THIS WOMAN instead of the woman that is pretending to be your wife. That might knock her right off that stupid fence.

Your inability is only ENABLING THE AFFAIR.

If you want the A to end, DON'T ENABLE IT. DESTORY IT.

Keep doing the carrot stuff...BUT STICK AND STICK HARD.

Walk softly but EXPOSE WITH A BIG BIG BIG STICK!

Quit baking cakes. Quit cushioning her affair. Get her off the fence by shining truth and exposing.

Do it all at one time...DON'T DRAG EXPOSURE OUT. BEST WAY OF CATCHING THE INFIDELS OFF GUARD TOO. Don't give any warning. Like a tactical plan for a battle. Strike fast and hit as many important targets as possible!

Go for the following: employers, the OM's family, OM's wife, find out if OM is using a company computer to facilitate this affair. OM work. Their friends, families, ministers, and anybody of influence (emotional) in their lives. Expose away in one day.

They will not know what to do. It will infuriate them...but make sure you only stick to facts and expose in a decent manner...I am saying to not speak ill of your WW or her OM. Just say you're trying to save your M and the facts are she is having an active affair with OM.

So much will happen so fast they will divide up temporarily (and yes be angry) but they'll have so many personal fires to put out, that it will buy time to disengage their affair. Could cause it to end permanently if right targets are hit at right time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As far as the OM: He's single, and lives with his mother and younger (15years old) brother. his father is not present. dont rmember if he died or abandoned them, a long time ago.

Yes, I have the phone number. its a single one for the house, under the OM's name.

arg. this sucks. she's just started talking to me on a semi-normal human level. I so dont want to mess that up for a while <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I made a promise. I cant go back on that.
it was a "bad" promise to make. but breaking it now, would destroy any credibility I have in the future.

I already know most things that I need to know. I'm just blind on the "how much is she continuing her long distance relationship" part.

mywifeilove's story, didnt particularly hinge on exposure at all, that I can remember.

But MywifeIlove did keep tabs on the situation best he could. His situation also involved being able to get WW to break it of with OM. That's only one way to do it.

Getting OM to break it off with your wife is another. OM is long distance and single. So was my wife's OM. When things get to tough for them they flee to easier, more local opportunities. It doesn't matter how the affair ends, only that it ends. You must fight the battle on both fronts.

Your right that it was a bad promise to make but perhaps because you made it you'll have an easier time getting away with breaking it. I'm sure you've seen the adage here, the only worse than making a bad promise, is continuing after you realize it's bad.

Tech, your WW is manipulating you. She'll speak to you and "act" kind as long as you play along. Any interference with her addiction and you get punished. You must comprehend the manipulation while it's happening and either ignore it or reverse it.

For example, if you get caught snooping again and she yells at you for breaking your "promise", you point out that it pales in comparison to breaking one's vows. You do not buy into the argument. You state things calmly. If she yells, you whisper. There simply is NO privacy in marriage. There is simply no right to maintain secrets that affect you and your family. By arguing and making silly promises you are merely giving into her illogical manipulation that she has such rights. She can't yell nor argue when stated and repeatedly with direct and absolute intonation.

On to Exposure. I know it's tough. It's embarassing and just plain counter-intuitive. It seems that enraging your wife will not help the situation (she's likely even warned you). I guarantee it will. If she ends up leaving you it will BE because of the affair and NOT because you exposed. She'll get over it cause she KNOWS she'd do the same thing to you had you been the foggy wayward one. Her rage will be because you messed with her drug of choice (om) NOT because she thinks what you did was actually wrong.

Affairs THRIVE in secret. The whole illusion of the passionate lovers keeping it all a secret til one day they can expose their love to the world crap needs to be shattered. Once the light is on...then no one will fully support them. They start to fight and argue. Your ww starts talking about YOU way to much to OM. It's no longer about how to manipulate you...it's about you DOING this, what's HE gonna do next, How can we beat him, I'm not sure about this...let's cool it a bit, no let's not. All this then starts to play on both of the infidels insecurties.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

*gotta run...sorry about the typos and rambling

Well, making a BAD PROMISE and doggedly sticking to it won't give you any "credibility," it will only give you a DIVORCE because you sat there and did nothing while your W destroyed your family right under your nose. You can't afford to get your "credibility" at THAT COST, becuase the cost is too great. The only thing worse than making a stupid promise, is keeping a stupid promise.

You have an OBLIGATION to snoop on your wife if she is destroying your marriage behind your back so you can protect yourself and your children. Whyever in the world you made such a bad promise is beyond me, but it sure does not absolve your obligation to protect your family from her shenanigans! Your first obligation is TO YOUR FAMILY, not foolish promises.

In the meantime, the OM's mother would be a very good exposure target, along with your wife's family. But I would suggest doing it all in the same day. Can you get to her computer to install some spyware? You can easily install spyware that is emailed to you invisibly that would tell you what you need to know.

Just re-read some of "MyWifeILove"s main thread.

In it, he states that he tried the standard stuff up front about Plan A, and exposure, and it didnt help one bit.

From my own observations, what happened seemed to be that he basically seduced her from the OM, by playing "Hard to get" for a while <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Then switched plans a little once she was on the hook.
his success had NOTHING to do with "keeping tabs" on the OM., and everything to do with how he played on his wife's emotions.

Too bad that wont work on my W though. She seems to like, "bad boy, who is interested in her, but not TOO interested in her" (until she's fully in it).

GRRRrrrrwll....

this sucks.


PS: the OM wont break it off by himself for "easier game". He's a total nerd. he spends hours a day playing an online video game populated mostly by teenagers, for goodness' sake. and he lives in podunk, texas. so, not social, and no local opportunities either.

Ok. Well, if your goal is to appease her then you should do nothing. You will get exactly what you put into it, though: NOTHING. She will be nice to you as long as you shut up and allow her to continue her affair in peace. But, that won't do anything to help your marriage and stop her affair. Your marriage can survive her temporary anger, it can't survive an ongoing affair. So take your pick.

I would also point out that women do not respect men they can run over. Often they do not love men they can't respect. So keep this in mind while you continue to ENABLE her affair just so she will be civil to you. She won't respect that, but she will like keeping you in your place while she conducts her affair.

Not doing anything is the WORSE THING you can do if you want to save your marriage, just keep that in mind.

Unfortunately, MWIL's wife is not yet out of the fog completely to relate to you just how much his "standard" stuff and exposure affected her affair from the inside. I am certain it did. MWIL's perception at the time was that it had no effect because his source of information about it's effect was his fogged out WW. Of course, she's gonna make it appear it had no effect on her.

Maybe other FWW's can chime in here and tell Techie just what exposure did to them. How they responded. How they tried to manipulate their BS with anger, then fear (do it again and I'm really gonna leave you), then act like exposure had no effect and ridicule BS for trying it to no avail. It's the same script everytime.

Eventually MWIL had nothing to snoop. All the cards were on the table and his wife was living and sleeping with OM. But now, you can bet he's snooping to inspect what he expects...NO CONTACT.

MWIL's story is a good one but it is quite unique. His way is not the golden way and it might not have worked without exposure.

What would you do if you were not afraid??????? I understand your feelings. I've been there. I feared exposing too. In hindsight I wish I had. It would have ended it sooner. I don't want to see you here posting one day regretting you didn't listen to us. Trust the professional (Dr. Harley). Trust the plan. You've got everything to lose.

Mr. Wondering

Techie,

EXPOSE!!!! IF I WERE HAVING A BEER WITH YOU RIGHT NOW, I WOULD LOOK YOU IN THE EYE AND TELL YOU........IT IS THE BEST TOOL TO BREAK UP THE AFFAIR!!!!!

I reread some of my early posts.....of course at that time it didn't help, she was still in it....but exposure was the "injection" of a virus that slowly made the relationship sick. Period....end of story!!

At the time when I exposed, it seemed like nothing was happening....but deep down in WW's soul...was the begining of an unbeknownst battle with in her. After her anger, (vile, to say the least!!) she calmed down a bit....yes she moved out to be with OM....but the virus had been set loose and OM didn't have a cure....he flopped around like a needy little moron, while I became more and more confident in ME....and that washer over to WW.

So if I haven't mentioned it...EXPOSE...all at once...to everyone and anyone....get this Affair done and over with, inject the virus.
MWIL

I promised my WW that I would NOT expose the tape recording of her and OM consumating PA in our car as long as she would maintain NC with OM. Big mistake since you DO NOT negotiate with a WS. Would you negotiate with a crack addict? The same should apply when dealing with a WS.

I broke that promise and finally did expose to her family and she went absolutely nuts and told me I would have LS papers by that week. That was 8 months ago and we will be seperated in 2 weeks, but looking back it was the right choice. She is still resentful and blames me for ruining her relationship with her family, however that is when I remind her it was HER choice to continue to committ adultery after my first exposure and it was HER choices that affected the relationship she has with her family. Part of Plan A is NOT accepting any blame for her choice to commit adultery.

Exposure does work, however it doesn't always have immediate effects. MWIL is right when he compares exposure to a virus since it works to slowly make the host (Affair) ill.

wait... you broke the promise?
She maintained NC, but you still went ahead and let her family hear the tape recording??? why???

btw: if I made a deal, "i'll do this if you do that" with a crack addict, and they kept their part.. then yes, I would keep my part.

and as far as "right choice" for you... Umm.. your claim that it was the right choice, would have more behind it if you were reconciling instead of separating right now.

Yes, I broke the promise as I found out she had broken NC with OM. It was a bad promise to make at the time and I told her that. I was struggling with trying to "protect" her at the time when all I was doing was enabling her A with OM. She had no intention of keeping NC, but I was trying to keep her lies between us. I do NOT regret exposing, I only regret making a bad promise that I needed to break to help end the A.


Again, she didn't keep her part as I found emails from OM 1 week before I exposed to her family. I was trying to negotiate with her when I should have just exposed immediately. Using exposure as a threat or back up plan almost never works and that is why it is important to expose to all critical parties immediately.


Absolutely NOT! You see her R OM will ALWAYS have the stigma of adultery attached to it because of exposure. She will NEVER be able to introduce OM to her family or my kids as a NEW R now. For this reason alone I would consider exposure a success.

Listen, I understand your apprehensiveness towards exposing your WW affair...I was there. It takes a large "sack" to do it since it's akin stepping on an ant hill. What follows is chaos for a while…then the rebuilding begins. Breaking up the A is a pre-requisite to recovering your M. Sure it may end on its own and you may recover your M, but the longer it goes the harder it is to recover…trust me on that.

BTW, we are separating, but I have not given up on our M and I have seen some small changes to my WW that would indicate that the A is dying or dead. Someone once mentioned that the level of anger in a WS is proportional to the extent of the A. My WW was angry, spiteful and an absent mom when her PA was uncovered by me. She is rarely angry now and a much better mom. This stuff takes time my friend.

I wish you all the best.

HTW