I have not mentioned this before. Don't think I have anyway. But after having dealt with xh once again this morning via phone, and having the racing heartbeat, sick nauseous stomach, and the foreboding feeling that comes now from ALL contact with him, I must admit something.

After the last 2 d days with my xh, I became a victim of spousal abuse. I will not go into it. But it happened on several occasions at the end of things. The end of the M that is.

And I was for the last year of legal marriage (where he and I lived together), during his repeated affairs as a WS, I was also a victim of emotional abuse.

Those were the main reasons I sought counseling.

I am recovered and doing well. But when I have contact with him and he goes into one of his "rages" for no apparent reason other than his "perceived will" was defied, I have the racing heart, the nausea, etc.

This is part of the reason why I don't have much contact wtih him other than parenting issues. Dark completely if not for that. Extended forever plan B.

And issues like today, when he rages for no reason, is why I have retained an attorney again.

There aren't many threads about this. I guess so many here are ashamed to admit it. I am not anymore.

My xws is a monster. He hurt me mentally and physically at the end of my M. He raged, yelled, swore, and on a few separate occasions, he hurt me physically at the end and I finally got enough courage to call the police as I was in denial after the first instances. Third time I called.

He almost broke his wife's jaw last summer during his yet another affair.

THis subject may be taboo. But I fear it's happening here and nobody is mentioning it. Another white elephant in the room.

D day violence is not unheard of. Or during the time when a WS is actively involved in an affair and the BS is trying to actively stop the affair. They rage, yell, scream, and behave like monsters imho, when they are in their affair phase.

Please get honest and get real about your life.

You can't change somebody else. If you have experienced this, get help for YOU first. THen help your kids...and at same time, get away from the person doing this. NO MARRIAGE IS WORTH THIS.

And please be safe.

Remember, you're all dealing with a WS here. And A wS cannot be trusted. They lie, spew venom and hatred, steal family monies, sneak around, and are mere shadows of the people we once knew and fell in love with. Under NO circumstances should they be trusted...imho, not even with the kids.

And to me, it's far worse than any addiction. It is a problem that manifests itself in the most cruel of ways. I honestly think many of the WS here are mentally ill and or have issues with behaviors...as their actions definitely show at the least mental abuse. cruel treatment.

For those wS who "wake up" and see the light, I am sure they are shocked beyond belief they could act this way. And I am sure many of the former WS will not grasp it.

But please be careful. I've carried this secret for a few years now, but a few MB'ers I am close to, know this to be true already.

And I'm one of the lucky ones. I got outta this with my mental health in tact (as per my counselor). I am a SURVIVOR of adultery and abuse. I got away from him...but alas, the phone is not far enough. Needs more distance from him. And will work now until I secure safer distance for my son with regards to his ws father too.

Don't think this can't happen to you. Or if it already did, don't explain it away. Don't sweep it under the rug.

So many of us think WE FAILED the WS. And caused the affair. WE DID NOT DO IT. They did it. And they are responsible for their own actions just as we are responsible for our own actions. THE WS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS. say that to yourself. over and over if you have to.

You can't save somebody else. Not another adult that is. Not a WS. A WS HAS TO WANT TO CHANGE ON THEIR OWN.

You can save yourself and your kids...because you're their parent.

Be kind to yourself, your kids, and don't take the blame. Do not buy the lies. Do not begin to believe revisionist history. Do not propegate their lie.

Be smart and be strong. Know where your boundaries are and know just how far over that boundary you're willing at all to go, until you say enough.

I would truly like to see the Harleys discuss this. As I am imho, in the belief that almost ALL WS EXHIBIT TO THE BS EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE BEHAVIORS...how do you deal with an emotional abuser? However mine was both...after the last few d days, he was both. emotional and physical.

It's time to call it like it is. Say it for the truth that is there.

No more sugar coating for the BS. WS are emotionally abusive to the BS in a huge way. And as I suspect, some may be even more abusive than that.

I worked like a dog using MB principles on my xh, for about a year and a half b/c he was not this way before. He was at one time a kind and loving man. But something in his psyche snapped. Or something that was there, laying dormant for so long, finally re-emerged. I'll never know which way it was. But it happened. And that man I knew never came back. And he has gotten progressively worse over the years.

Only contact I have with him is via phone or brief contact in person. There is boundary space and he knows without a doubt if he ever moved too close to me or did something I did not find acceptable in my boundaries, I'd call 911 on him. Same for his being with my son. His wife? She called 911 on him twice last year. So this is why I am working on legalities yet again. Money can however sadly buy justice, or the best attorney though. Case example: Natalee Holloway and her murder trial. The suspect was son of a prominent lawyer. Got special treatment for his position in the government and for their money. I have modest means, however this time my family is going to help fund my legal dealings too. So at least I am not as meager to begin with...moneywise this time.

But some just don't change. Some WS will. I pray your WS does change. That the WS wakes up one day, sees the rubble surrounding them, and cries out to God for help....but if not, you MUST BE PREPARED to do whatever is necessary to help your children and yourself through this if the WS does not "recover from their fog".

I still don't know if it is a mental illness, addiction, bad brain wiring, or a pathology that has existed from the WS's childhood that causes them to become like this. And maybe I'll never know what triggers a supposedly "normal" person to morph into this kind of vile creature.

I think you're probably right. I think many WSs "hint" at it here but, don't actually come out and say it.

I know in my case I've plastered the actions of my WH all over this board! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I should take lessons from many here by actively moving forward w/D and then, like you, forever plan B.

Today I too did the typical w/him. Talked by phone and the "are you going to church" scenario started. When saying "probably" I got the "have fun" routine. Then the nasty started. Then, after he thought I would be in church (about 11:15am - but, I didn't go) he left VM about how proud he was of me for accomplishing all that I had in my life and that I should always hold head high and if he has wrongly accused me of A w/OM at church, he's sorry.

So, lots of verbal and emotional abuse over the years as our M got worse and worse. Same during his last A which really made no sense. He gave me pure h*ll about going to church yet he was talking to and going to be w/the OW at the exact same time!!!

I'm glad you've taken a stand against his abuse. Do you have any idea if abuse was a part of his childhood? Not trying to use psych 101 but just wondering if he's doing what was patterned in front of him?

I'm not sure in my case. Know my WH grew up dirt poor in a grossly dysfunctional family. Dad cheated, not sure about mom. Of 7 siblings, one never married. Of the other 6 there's only one girl that hasn't cheated that I'm aware of. All the others have.

My WH has gotten minorly physical a few times. Throwing stuff, pushing and shoving, pulling hair, etc. but never hitting.

I agree w/you that this is something that should be addressed. Just like w/the A, I never wanted my family to know that he did those things and I was stupid enough to take it and stay. I've gotten pretty scared a couple of times and he did one thing in front of my D that I think did it for her. She wants nothing else to do w/him.

Life2short...You're exactly right.

I fear many posters here have endured this but are afraid to actually admit it.

I am sorry for what you've endured as well.

As for me, I've placed many boundaries in place as to never having to ever be alone (except once in last two years when he showed me his dream lakehouse) with him again. I know his "triggers" for anger and rage...it is doing anything that is outside of his perceived "desire or will". And if you disagree with him or dare to defy his perceived will, he rages! It's a simple equation really. Very kindergarten in nature. It's like a small child with a toy. IF you try to take it or negotiate with him about the toy, he rages at you.

Mine were rare and isolated incidences towards end of marriage and almost always when a d day was discovered. He'd rage at me for "snooping" or try to rage at me to get me to divulge my sources for the discovery...which I would not do. I was always calm and rational when dealing with him. zHowever, after his incidents, as I now call them, I would be reduced to a puddle of tears, with a racing heartbeat and high blood pressure... I do not miss those days at all.

I can't begin to emphasize enough that a healthy recovery begins with a WS who WANTS TO TRULY CHANGE...that means maybe seeking IC as well as MC and following MB steps for recovery. If the WS is an ABUSER, they need to do all this AWAY FROM THE FAMILY HOME...and maybe seek medical help too before allowed back in.

There is nothing wrong with admitting that you are enduring this or have endured it. It's a silent enemy. It exists in all socioeconomic groups. It even existed in a country club in an atlanta suburb. In fact, in my old subdivision, there were numerous cases of it happening and sadly, the one woman who referred me to MB who lived there (and subsequently pursued my WS and was a potential another OW in the end)was a victim of it herself too.

Luckily for my ds, my xh seems to view him as "an extension of himself" as he's named after him. I've had two psychs tell me this. And they call it "lucky". But they have their worries that when my son is older and exerts "will" upon my xh or disagrees with him or goes against his perceived will, he will rage at him. But for now, he doesn't do that. Doesn't take away any fear I have though. Again, yet another reason I am seeking legal help again.

Here, I have sadly seen so many BLAME THEMSELVES for their WS's affair...drastically trying to change themselves, doing a better plan A, and meeting all and every EN and whim...without their WS doing much of anything on their end. And I see many BS struggling with depression...WHICH I WENT THRU TOO! after suffering at the hand of a WS and the emotional abuse.

We must make them OWN THEIR ACTIONS. WE can POINT THEM IN RIGHT DIRECTION...set the stage for positive change to happen, and do all we can to help them WANT TO HELP THEMSELVES...but that is all within our power.

And happily, many times that is what it takes. Those are all the changes needed to jump start the brains and clear out the fog in the WS mind. Sometimes it is not though.

I am praying for all here and have done so for years. I pray for strength for these BS here...my friends. Pray for their kids. For the WS here even.

Luckily, most WS that end up here have had that lightbulb moment and see the damage they've caused. I pray they also seek the appropriate help to ENSURE THIS EMOTIONAL ABUSE TO THEIR BS AND FAMILY NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

There is also lasting demons from the emotional abuse. It recurrs only when I deal with one of his raging fits. It happens maybe 2to 3 times a year only now. But even once is too much...I get the rapid heartrate, the sick stomach, sometimes I almost throw up, usually just get nauseous, and then an overwhelming dread or fear grips me.

But I've learned how to snap outta it. (thanks to counselor). It's something I live with...until the lawyer takes him outta the equation even more. She (counselor) a few years back said it's similar to ptsd symptoms. It's from his repeated emotional abuse. That even if he is NOT PHYSICALLY present, he can cause this to trigger in me if my fight or flight signals go off. But I've learned how to calm myself and pull back. It's much easier now thankfully. She also said one day in the near future, when this wuold happen, more healing would be signaled by my quickly "snapping" out of the feeling and have that feeling followed by overwhelming urge to take actions and not to deal with it. She was right! When he did this stuff 2 weeks ago with the strep throat incident, I called a new laywer immediately and set up appointment!

So some healing has happened.

But I think here, there are tons walking in my old shoes. WS are emotional abusers. Plain and simple. When you deal wtih them, I now liken dealing with a mentally ill admitted patient. This week at work, I dealt with a patient who was as the guards put it, a "cluster killer". She was a woman who killed her parents and inlaws. In her fifties. She had a certain condition (thyroid) and we had to treat her. I remember wording all verbage slowly and carefully. You could look at her eyes and see she was "just not right and off a bit"...something just not right about her. I kept my boundaries clear. Far away from the patient. When I had to administer to her a pill to render her gland less active, the patient asked the guards to remove her handcuffs to take the pill...I declined her request saying one of the guards could put the pill in her mouth by dropping it from the bottle onto her tongue. As I am always concerned with safety...MINE! You just never know what a convicted crazy person will do...and a WS is just as unpredictable.

So I just deal wtih darth like I deal with them. I speak calmly, slowly and distinct. I clearly state my reason for being there, my objectives, and offer a kind resolution to the issue at hand. I do not openly get flustered.

Sad, but that's how you gotta be with the WS.

When they're in this mode, the WS full blown mode, we are barely a blip on their radar screen. They don't acknowledge us whatsoever except being a barrier in their way to the affair continuing. Barrier to their happiness. It's all about them.

Be safe. And it's ok. You can vent. You can get this off your chest. I did today. Three years later.

Oh my ((((peachy))))

I dont think I ever posted to you before but have followed your story. I admire your courage and strength..you are amazing.

I must say reading this post has scared me. Obviously just the sheer fact of the actions of a WS are emotionally abusive, but I do find myself walking on egg shells most of the time. WS has never hit me..has grabbed me a few times, but not in a while. A couple of years ago he throw his sneaker at me on one occassion and one other time he picked us a ax while screaming at me I cant stand you . I am getting sick typing this.

Right now I am pretty sure my WH has been away the whole weekend with OW2..Can just tell by his actions and his texts to me...they really think you are some kind of idiot.

My WS does show rage in other areas of his life..he has chased people on the road that have cut him off. He broke his toe 4 years ago by kicking a desk in rage. The first thing the doctor told him was to go to anger-management classes. I do whole-heartedly believe his inner problems stem from his childhood and basically being thrown out at the age of 15. Last June our Dr. told WS she fully believes he is bi-polar (his younger brother has it) and referred him for further diagnosis and treatment. WS still hasnt done it. Guess its denial or maybe he thinks if got help he might actually become the man I married again.

I believe it is time to end this marriage..I just am trying to find the courage. I think I will start with reading your post a few more times.

L