What you will see is that the BS and WS will begin to pick and choose who they will listen to. They will begin to focus on the message that is getting through. They need the angst, the no holds barred 2x4, and the gentle touch, and often they need all of them at different times. We don't necessarily know the time.

So what seems to work best is that they receive the message in many different forms. Your greatest value here is to communicate in YOUR form with those you choose to help. It will be sincere and hopefully effective. Mel has her style, Pep has hers, NB has hers, WAT has his, I have mine. Hopefully one of these styles will get through.

Now if what I am saying makes sense to you, then you can see why some responded as they did to you. They don't want to curb your approach, but they are most comfortable in their own approach.

late breaking news:

I've decided to "upgrade" to a 2X6 in deference to better construction during hurricane season.

Film at 11:00.

WAT

That means I will have to get a 2x8!

wantout
if you are still here I think you should at least see that what you 'want' to do is going to destroy your family, your kids childhood to an extent, and research shows where a parent leaves the M due to an affair kids have long term life issues with relationships, and last but not least the happiness that COULD be yours.

A person suffering PTSD from a war, & here I speak with personal knowledge as my H suffered/s from it now and it gets worse after every deployment. Most of the men who go over there who do what my H does do in fact.
He will never be the man I married ever again, but he will be I hope and pray ALWAYS my beloved H.
Its NOT romantic unless you think being thumped in the mioddle of the night is romantic because your H, or in your case potential OM, thinks its someone sneaking up on him, or you wake him suddenly and get thrown into a wall, or he wanders the neighbourhood because he needs to know its safe and I could go on and on.
It's heart breaking and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
YOU cant SAVE him, you never could, Yes he is a victim but not YOUR victim. That would be your H & kids if you chose to have an affair, I know about that too because its what I did.
No one here can stop you destroying your M and family and your life, but maybe you should find out what you are doing before you do it.

I do wish you would read the books mentioned, to read some of the sad and inspiring stories of both recovered and failed M that are here, they are real, not fantasy.

Remember this, you are not 16 anymore and the 'HERO' you worshipped back then 'died' in that war. Its that simple really.
The man who has come back to see you NOW is obviously in great turmoil & pain. BUT ITS NOT YOURS.
Whatever he needs I can promise you its simply not YOU.
You will find out you are fighting to maintain an emotional reltionship of any sort to your HERO, .... he wont be able to respond because he can't. That is not his fault of course BUT ITS NOT YOURS EITHER! it simply is.
If you think your M is a bit distant now just wait until you try to live with a PTSD man who has not be able to recover after 10 years.
He should be encouraged with your H by your side, to seek help and a new life, not to seek his relief in taking you away from your family because he NEEDS you or someone else, anyone else, to ease his pain, THAT never works with war related PTSD, so far all I have ever seen is that only peer treatment does, advise him to see a Vet hospital not see you.
This will NEVER work for you, you need to work on your issues with your H.
If you say its not great then work to make it so, you have only yourself to blame if you don't.
You have the chance to step back, please take it.

All the best.

....and shame is a crummy motivator

Because of the differences between shame and guilt (who I am versus what I did), people respond to each emotion differently. Guilt, because it emphasizes what someone did wrong, tends to elicit more constructive responses, particularly responses which seek to mend the damage done. Guilt is tied to beliefs about what is right and wrong, moral and immoral. When we violate one of these moral guidelines, it causes us to feel guilty over our actions and seek to fix what we have done (see cognitive dissonance). As a result, guilt is an important tool in maintaining standards of right and wrong in individuals and society as a whole. As such, guilt can often be used as a tool to overcome conflict.



Shame, on the other hand, emphasizes what is wrong with ourselves. It has a much more inward focus, and as such, leads shameful parties to feel poorly about themselves, rather than simply the actions they have taken. The result is often an inward-turning behavior -- avoiding others, hiding your face, removing yourself from social situations. Therefore, shame can be problematic, as it is often less constructive than guilt. In fact, shame can lead to withdrawal from social situations and a subsequent defensive, aggressive, and retaliatory behavior, which only exacerbates conflict, rather than alleviating it.[6]



Shame can also lead to other types of behavior, many of which serve little or no constructive role. People cope with shame in many ways. However, few get at the actual source of the emotion. The following is a list of common shame-driven behaviors:



* Attacking or striking out at other people. In an attempt to feel better about their shame, people will oftentimes strike out at others in the hopes that they will be lifted up by bringing others down. While this behavior may produce short-tehrm relief from shame, in the long term shame is only strengthened -- in both parties -- and nothing is done to get at the root of the problem.


* Seeking power and perfection. Others attempt to overcome their shame by preventing the possibility of future shame. One way in which they do this is by aiming for perfection -- a process that inevitably fails and causes more problems. Another manner in which people cope is by seeking power, which makes them feel more valuable.


* Diverting blame. By blaming our faults or problems on others, we can avoid guilt and shame. However, like the previous responses, doing this fails to get at the core problems and as a result, fails to achieve its purpose.


* Being overly nice or self-sacrificing. People sometimes compensate for feelings of shame or unworthiness by attempting to be exceptionally nice to others. By pleasing everyone else, we hope to prove our worth. However, this inevitably involves covering up our true feelings, which is, once again, self-defeating.


* Withdrawal. By withdrawing from the real world, we can essentially numb ourselves to the feelings of guilt and shame so that we are no longer upset by these sorts of things. Again, nothing has been done to address the core issues of the problem.[7]



While each of these actions may provide temporary relief, the long term effects are often negative, and the result is the passing on of guilt or shame to others.[8]

Shame is self hate WAT....you're talking about GUILT. Guilt is a very good motivator....shame isn't. Look at the definitions of shame and guilt and you can quickly see the difference. Exposure may create shame....but it isn't the shame that motivates people to change. Shame creates powerlessness and inadequacy. Guilt translates into a ethical understanding of right and wrong.




The feeling bad of guilt means a feeling about someone else's hurt I caused & I meant to do it.

The feeling BAD of shame means there is something wrong with me as a person, that I let myself be hurt and I hurt others because I was no good. I'm powerless to change the horrible person I am.

IMO....the best exposure is one whose main component is guilt and not shame.

The feeling BAD of shame means there is something wrong with me as a person, that I let myself be hurt and I hurt others because I was no good. I'm powerless to change the horrible person I am.

Guilt stems from a different source than shame. While the reference point of shame is the self, the reference points of guilt are the actions of the individual. Shame is about the self while guilt refers to the activity of the self. While an act of guilt can be eliminated by changing the activity which causes the feeling of guilt, shame remains as an active personality trait. If a person believes that he is bad the feeling is that he was born that way, whereas with guilt it involves a value or an action, that can be changed. The activity can be eliminated, but the self remains. Guilt is connected to a behavior that is in opposition to a moral or ethical value system. Guilt attends to an activity, past or present, something a person does that has caused the guilty feeling.

Look at the definitions of shame and guilt and you can quickly see the difference.