Now..let's make it clear that your stories may not have the outcome that mine did...

Notice that there were a couple of FALSE RECOVERIES before I did PLAN B and the Legal Separation and that by this time I really, really thought that it was OVER and had to protect myself...my H thought he was finished with me too...

He needed PLAN B..being with her 24/7...to see who she REALLY was and what life would be like with her...he now calls her "BAD" and says that she was "ACTING".."ALL BS" is what he calls it..somewhat of a goldigger..LONG STORY...

To answer your question about contacting me, two months after PLAN B...

He used a scheme to get me to answer my cellphone by calling me repeatedly and then hanging up after each call.. I finally answered out of exasperation..as I had stopped answering ALL PHONES..all my phones,even at work, were on VOICEMAIL..everyone knew that you had to call me back..

H had done a driveby and found out that the house had sold...

He called me on that day with the cellphone scheme and said very quickly something to the effect: "The house sold..what about us?" I said: "There is NO US"..Click..

Then I swiftly arranged an appointment with Steve Harley...

Steve specifically instructed me on how to proceed...

H had to PURSUE..

I was to respond very briefly: "Get rid of the OW..."

This is making a LONG, LONG STORY very short...

He did stuff like secretly find out from my realtor what houses that I was looking at..would go see the houses and then tell me what was wrong with them, etc...he would offer me more money to buy a better house..etc.. ME: "Get rid of the OW and then we can talk..CLICK"

I see. Yeah, I'm unsure as to why H had his recent sudden turn. He went cold. The only assumption I can gather is that he just isn't happy as things are. He has a hard time dealing with the day to day stuff, kid, dogs, house, me. He seems overwhelmed. I believe that he will be happier during my Plan B, and I have no real reason to believe that he will be returning. He seems fine with no contact, as far as we have it currently.
One thing I did notice last night was that WH came to the house to drop son off after their newly established 'weeknight dinner'; my girlfriend was in the house waiting for them. I hid away, not wanting to hear or see him. (I'm working on getting better 'go betweens', but our family is very small, many members have passed away). He just hung out, would not leave. He really had no reason to be there. He made DS a cup of chocolate milk (his favorite evening snack), and just hung around while he drank it. He knows I want absolutely no contact.

I don't really hold out lots of hope for our M. It seems that he wants to be single, sow some oats, live more freely from the chaos of family and responsiblity. He is still not on his own; lives with SD and half brother. Has never really been on his own. Believes that I will always be there, I think. Oh, I don't know, I'm just ready for change, for forward movement, for peace in my soul.

Temp you say:



These statements are inconsistent, Temp. He does not seem fine with No Contact.

I recommend that you do not allow him to come to the house during PLAN B. PLAN B is about him suffering the consequences of his actions. Plus, it is imperative for you not to meet ANY of his ENs. Coming to the house to hang out, meets the DOMESTIC SUPPORT NEED.



Same was true for my H..who had no plans to marry the OW..out having FUN...

You see the cake that he is eating by coming HOME for the MILK and COOKIES????

Plus, this is TOO MUCH CONTACT of YOU WITH HIM. You know exactly what he did last night..not good for you...

I lived my life..although briefly..as if my H did NOT EXIST...

Why can't he take your son to where he is living and then bring him home without coming into the house?

I agree with you completely. Domestic tranquility is not something that a WH gets. Now, a devoted H and father deserves it. I agree with your assessment of me too. I really do not want to see him, so I will be sure to reiterate that boundary. I will have him drop son off, and I will wait at the door for him; there's no reason for entry into the house. I was trying to avoid this by having H pick DS up from daycare and 'drop' him off, but I realize now that I need to be clear about what 'dropping' off means. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I was tooling with the idea of instilling in myself a belief that H does not exist. It's only been two weeks, so I'm still working on getting him out of my head, but I do believe that with a good Plan B, absolutely no contact, this will occur. I have already found a better peace within, but it gets disturbed by emails and drop offs. Many thanks for your precious time. I feel most humbled and appreciative. This too shall pass.

I'm having some problems getting H to agree to some provisions of No contact. He insists on being able to use the garage (full of many amenities, a lift, large air compressor, his tools, tire rack, etc.). He says that he did not 'forfeit' his right to be in the home, and that he also would like to his the dogs, too. I responded that he did forfeit many rights when he left the home and our marriage. That he was right, this did suck, but that I did not choose this. There are consequences to every choice we make. I have told him repeatedly that I do not want contact. I have received the final draft of our separation agreement (which he does not know is coming), and will be sending them his way within 24 hours. After all is settled (if he signs), I will be sending my Plan B letter.

Even though I have not yet sent my letter (still doing some minor drafting - will send along when I've completed it for review), I have stated that it is within my right to privacy that he agrees to not try to contact me, see me, or talk with me. He has breached this almost every chance. Any suggestions. It's beginning to annoy me, and I feel like he's trying to keep my holding on, so that he has some twisted control over things/me. If anything, I feel disrespected and it makes me angry. What to do, a girl asks?

Ooops....

I thought you were already in PLAN B....



This is not part of the MB System.."getting him to agree"...you set it up yourself so that there is NO CONTACT..it's YOUR PLAN..that YOU SET UP...



This is the response you get when you try to get him to agree to NO CONTACT. A WH, especially a cake-eating WH, will not be agreeable to this...he wants the both of you for as long as possible...you want to hand him over to her so that she has to meet ALL of his needs..so that she can FAIL....




It's not really "IN YOUR RIGHT" until you have that LS Agreement. Actually your WH is correct...



Why do you see your WH wanting to hold onto you as being "TWISTED CONTROL"? It's a GOOD thing that he wants to hold onto you....It's NOT a GOOD thing that he also wants to hold onto the OW...YOU are REMOVING YOURSELF FROM THE TRIANGLE..He wants to KEEP YOU THERE....



and yes to this..and thus, the need for PLAN B...

But you are not in PLAN B..YET...

Why not make this a WONDERFUL 24 HOURS for you two? GO OUT WITH A BANG!!! Can you do this? Maybe not...

Others may disagree but I believe in PLAN A then PLAN B...

So, IMO, you should still be doing PLAN A now...

You want to leave him with PLEASANT, POSITIVE memories of you....

Soooo let him use the house all he wants until you start PLAN B and give him the Separation Agreement...then he will MISS having the opportunity to do the Domestic stuff...

I'm sorry. I had this all wrong. I thought you had already given him the letter.

What is stipulated in your LS Agreement? I don't recall but it seems that mine said that we were not to bother each other..Doesn't he lose access to the house once you are legally separated? Doesn't he get to choose certain tools to take with him? Isn't there some legal agreement about who gets the dogs, etc.?

I'm sorry, I thought I mentioned that I wanted to finish the Legal agreement before Plan B. You are correct, I am not in Plan B yet.

I have mentioned to H coming and getting some things that he needs for the next few months, but he won't (says he is in limbo and has nowhere to store things), so I told him to let me know when he needs things, and we'll work it out (furniture, kitchen stuff, household items, etc.). He has every right to enter the house, I know this, I have asked him to let me know when he needs something. I can't be sure, of course, but I don't believe H really wants to spend time with me, just at home, yknow. I don't really know, but I 'feel' he would rather I not be present, so I'm trying to give him that space. He continues to contact me, and I'm very pleasant, but I've been in Plan A for so long, I'm beginning to lose love, due to the treatment a BS gets from a WS.

I would love nothing more than to spend some time with my H. I'm not even sure if he is in another affair, or reconnected with formerOW, he just said to me point blank that he did not like me, and couldn't love me. He does not speak to me about 'us'; he hasn't for months.

Sadly, our LSA states that our relationship, henceforth, will be as if we were never joined in matrimony. It states that the house is my abode, and that it will be my place of residence along with my son, until I choose to sell. It states that all of things are his, and all of 'my' things are mine. We agree to live separately. No mention of the dogs, but he knows that he can see them, and take them out; he has nowhere to live right now, so I couldn't place one of the dogs in his custody in my in-laws house; that's not fair to them. That may have to be added or argued at another time ( as my lawyer stated). I've asked him to relinquish claim to my retirement, as I will lay no claim to his ( he has none, as far as I know). The tools are his, mostly, and when he has a place to store them, he may take them, but the garage is a part of the estate, and I believe he will balk at that. To me, this is all so sad, when it gets signed, I will need Plan B; until then, I guess I'll have to smile, laugh, and try to enjoy each day; it's hard knowing that H is hurting, and alone, but he must know that separation is going to be hard, right?

Temp, these Plans are about MarriageBuilding. How is this helpful for your marriage to give your H "space" because HE WANTS SPACE. To me, that sounds like, "it's OK with me that you don't want to me with me...I'm agreeable to that"...

"feeling", as you say, that he does not want you to be there is making an assumption. It's what YOU want, Temp. If YOU want to BE THERE..BE THERE.. It's your house.



You might hear me always say this..ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS..since he continues to contact you..doesn't sound like he wants his space..you are giving him his space...

I'll be back later...

I see what you're saying, and I agree that his actions do speak to me. I don't want this at all. I want to go down the hard road, the rewarding road, to build a better life together. It doesn't seem like he wants his space, but he has actually said, " I need to be on my own". He used the word need. I have to try to take him on his word, also.

I'm not agreeable to cake-eating. I am agreeable, sometimes, to too many things, and that is part of MY problem. I need to set better boundaries, and I have begun to do that, but he has very few times respected these boundaries (no contact with OW, or any other women in a non-business/platonic manner, honesty about whereabouts and feelings/thoughts so I can work on things with him, what his EN are, and others). I had a big problem with DJ's, and have worked on that very hard, and edit myself always. He, generally, clams up and walks away when I've tried to very gently discuss his feelings.

I feel I'm in the dark with him, feeling around, and I have no idea what I'm working with. Is he a WS, or is he truly finished with 'us'? I have had no experience, prior to now, to being soooo in the dark about someone I used to know. Is he really this changed, or is his life full confusion? Who is he? I have to go by his actions, you are correct. He pushes and pulls, so I'm horribly confused. That is why I'm going to Plan B. To preserve us as best I can. I would like to be his light, and hope for the best. He seems so lost to me. It makes me very sad, when all I want to do is comfort him and receive the same in kind. This is tough.

I feel my love for him eroding, and I want to hold on to whatever I can. 'I' want to separate now, not for the reason he will assume, the Big D, but to heal, take care of me, build strength, find inner peace, and love him. I don't want to be apart, but I go away from this right now feeling that I have done my best with the knowledge I have gained. I'm a good wife and mother, and only want happiness for us all, come what may.

Temp:

You confuse me...

I understand, though, that you are perplexed by all this crap...

You say:



Your WH is communicating the typical WS script. Of course, they "want space" so they can carry on with their affair. This is a FIGHT for your marriage. You will LOSE if you just give in to the ENEMY...It's your choice whether you just give up or not. I chose not to do that. I STOPPED LISTENING TO THE BULLCRAP THAT MY WH HAD TO SAY TO ME!! I did not buy in to his FOG TALK.... I focused on his ACTIONS and TRIED not to allow myself to be swayed by his fogginess. In his FOGGY BRAIN, he NEEDS to be with the OW. Don't cha think? You want to HELP him with this? Why would you want to HELP your HUSBAND live without you? Doesn't make sense to me unless you don't want to be with him.



FIGHT, GIRLFRIEND! FIGHT! If you don't FIGHT, you will SURELY divorce, IMO. You need to find out this INFORMATION. You need to know if he is a WS. Before you GO DARK, you need to EXPOSE and find out what you are dealing with here. Who is the OW/OWs? It's one in the same. WSes often get to the point of feeling like they are finished with their marriages...mine did. I refused to give up on my marriage!!!


I think that it's good that you are going into PLAN B because you are losing the desire to fight. However, you've got to be READY and you've got to end PLAN A in a good way...for yourself and your marriage.

Thank you, Mimi,
It is so very perplexing to deal with this. I have to be honest, in some ways, it would be easier to give up. I have not been cruel during our break; I may express exasperation here, in this forum, but I do not project that on H. I have given affection, but kept my boundaries in check, I have seen him and have smiled at him, engaged in small conversation, and in any emails that have come across I have been nice (you could probably see my smile through the emails, sometimes). I have lost my cool with him, so I'm not perfect. I think that sometimes, I guide him too much, and this is what I believe he fears; that he is not guiding his own life. Maybe not, I don't really know, he's really tightly locked away right now. I am losing the desire to fight; i wish I could say I was stronger, but I feel in my heart that it is the best thing for me. I am ready to accept what may happen from this, whether it be another fight for eachother, or D. Wow, it's so hard to accept that last one. I see this as a time to heal and ready for the next thing; I'm preparing for the worst, but I truly hope for the best. I'm so humbled by the strength that so many have shown here; I do not feal like I'm meek or weak, I just feel like I've been ridden pretty hard. I'm ready.

Also, I want to end Plan A on a good note, but setting up this LSA seems to me to be a huge LB, don't you think? I don't think that he will take it well, having to give up his home to me and his son. We both worked so hard to make our house a home, and put our adult wonderland together. To me, without him in it, it's not the same. I think he is going to be devastated when he receives these papers.

Again, I have no proof that he is 'seeing' any OW, I have no access to his work email, and he no longer uses his home email. I have no access to his phone records. I don't have much money to hire a PI, and I do not think that his friends would be willing to talk to me about him. He separated our phone bills months ago (Mother's Day) and will not show me his info. His banking info doesn't help either. I only get info from FIL, and he doesn't have much to divulge. H has gone fairly dark on me, with his info, how do I get at the truth? I have asked him if anyone else is involved and have got the patent, No, I just don't like you, and can't be in love with you. I have even asked him, 'if you don't like me or love me, then why do you hang out with me and tell me 'I love you' when you hang up the phone. Why do you kiss me before you leave? ***shoulder shrug***

It took so long just to get him to look me in the eye, months, and as soon as I felt a little safer, and able to enjoy eachother, he goes cold, and leaves (I know, I asked him to, but he put up absolutely no fight). H has never mentioned D. That's all I know.

I wonder, is Plan B giving up? I thought that Plan B was a part of preservation of M. Isn't this so? I think that Plan B is part of the fight; preservation of self and a time to heal. I also feel that it will be a time to look into myself and know why I choose my M. I don't think that anyone can go through this and not question themselves and their decisions. I choose M. I cannot choose it for him, but I have tried to show him. It hasn't worked, he's still not here. I'm still fighting, I'm still in it, I'm still here.

But you need to have proof that he is having an affair..so the PLAN B is in response to that FACT..not seen or experienced by either of you..as a typical marital separation....

It's a PLAN to FIGHT INFIDELITY...IMO....

for the OP to be primarily responsible for meeting the WS' ENs...

Your H is trying to convince you, I think, that he is not having an A..just wants his "SPACE", etc...

Not a good idea to buy into this bullcrap...

Plus Temp, like I told yesterday, you've been doing this kind of PRELIMINARY PLAN B...

It's important, IMO, to go into PLAN B at a GOOD POINT in PLAN A..not when the WS is not feeling OK about the marriage.

You want the WS to MISS YOU....and not have you available for cake.

I'm not sure you are ready for B...YET...in terms of BATTLE STRATEGY....

I was laying in bed last night thinking about this oh, so confusing time and I do agree that Plan B may not be right in the current state of things.

I sent my H some pics that I recently took of our son in the house, with the dogs, real sweet. He really appreciated that. I think that I will be backing down on the No contact!!! (that damned drill seargent of mine). I'm unsure as to what is going on with him, and I think that it may be time to sit down and talk to eachother, just eat, and talk, no pressure, no R talk, no M talk. Maybe he'll let something out, and it will help to guide me. Maybe the ending to his A (he was let go, she left him, practiced NC on him--he was devastated, heartbroken), has left him with a sense that his try for love outside our M is not over. Maybe there is someone he is 'flirting' with, and hoping for more. He seemed to be coming around in early summer, but this sudden turn tore me up (the dead eyes again, the distance, the lack of touch or smiles). I allowed this separation to happen, and now I'm floundering. I feel helpless again, with him. I'm much more together than when the A originally occurred. I'm happier, ME.

I wish I had a microscope to see into his brain, his thoughts. Is he angry with me? Is he afraid of the future? What happened?

Plan B as described here is not for you if you know for sure that your H is no longer having an A and is not in contact with ANY other woman.

You told him that you want to WORK ON YOUR MARRIAGE, right?

Haven't been on the boards much over the last month; I've been trying to work through many ups and downs and have found a need to separate myself from MB for a little while. H and I have been separated since July 11th. Initially, I acted on instint, yknow the drill, go see the lawyer, protect the house and child, set up separation agreement, visitation, money, et.al.

Nowadays, I think about H and the life we once shared and am mourning the loss of our R. We don't speak very often, but when we do, I listen and respond. Most talk is about visitation with DS. When I hear his voice or even get an email, I FEEL something that I cannot describe; maybe just disappointment. The passing of time helps me to deal with the disappointment that I am feeling, but it does not diminish my want to have a great M. I miss the man I married, but have come to terms with the fact that his current incarnation is not for me. I really don't know where up or down is right now.

I don't really have a 'Plan' right now. I need more time to think and get my head on a little more straight. I feel the impending doom of a D. Honestly, this year is going to be tough, no matter what decisions are made, and I'm taking this time to be still.

I have been hanging out with friends and family, took a short, but fun, trip to Tennesee to see some family there. I enjoy time with my son, and have been working on some unfinished parts of my house; the physical labor is good for me. I still have a thread of hope that H will start to see and feel his loss, but I don't rely on it to happen.

I woke up on the wrong side of the world and just wanted to let it all out.

this was a helpful post to read, thank you

I have been separated from H now for 2 months. I have been able to really focus on self and repair the damage I have done, and set better boundaries and detach. My plan was to get a LSA in place and then go into Plan B. I have sent the LSA, but H is uncomfortable with the pace at which things are happening. It seems that reality is taking a front seat for him, finally.

H has recently emailed me regarding his 'feelings'. He stated that this time apart has been very tough, but he feels that it gave him the opportunity to see, clearly, what he has done over the last 18 months, and for the first time he is 'ashamed' of his choices and actions. He has apologized for even a 'microgram' of pain that he may have caused me.

I'm confused now as to how to proceed. H mentioned counseling, as well as the fact that he was not willing to 'entertain' D right now. I am so confused. I have been waiting so long to hear some of these words, that I'm a little off balance. I'm sure that many before me have said similar things, but I'm afraid of him; I'm unsure of his motivation. I know that I love him, but I don't want to go back and lose again. I'm excited at the prospect of building a stronger, more fulfilling R, but frightened of so much that I cannot express it properly. What's a girl to do (or guy, if that's your gender)? Do I begin talk with him about reconciliation? Do I wait for more positive affirmation that we should proceed to counseling? I'm still working on personal recovery, and really feel the need to recharge. I've been through so much in the last year, that I feel I cannot move forward with him right now. Any advice is welcomed.