[color:"purple"]So BF and I are shopping for houses and rings. Neither search is going smoothly.

I am shocked by the cost of homes. Even more shocked by the way they are constructed. We viewed a home that had a strong moldy smell and another in that development had the same water problems. I am now suspicious of new housing where there are several houses on the market. I have become expert at judging quality by looking at trim, windows, doors, and roofs. Since BF wants a modern house with tall ceilings and open floor plan we are now stuck because most of the houses on the market that we've looked at are probably up for sale because the owners are trying to unload a flawed home.

He would also like an acre of land which limits the choices. Additionally we will have to put in a pool. With a cabana bar. A separate building for his hobby would be nice. So after the house is purchased I'm figuring $70,000 of improvements to put in a pool and a building (plumbed and wired).

Sigh.

Don't forget the three car garage so that we can accommodate his sports car. Which he purchased by a home equity loan. Which means the equity in his house to contribute to the new home is probably less than the equity in my house that I will contribute.

In my point of view the car, the bar, and a huge expensive house are all status symbol objects. What drives me crazy is BF and I went ring shopping at his request, and saw how expensive a nice diamond would be.

How come you can showcase a car, a bar, a hobby, and a house, but hesitate to showcase the wife?

Of course he says that the things that he wants are things for everyone to enjoy. And that he thought I was a practical kind of gal and not "status conscious".

I feel guilty like I'm supposed to say sure spend $70,000 dollars on the yard and $40,000 on a sports car that I'll help you pay for but don't bother about spending $6,000 on me.

Heck with his kind of spending habits I'm a bargain.

V.

venting like crazy [/color]

And so it starts...

How many DJs can you count in this post?

I know you are just venting, but to follow-up on LO's question - doesn't this engagement sound a little premature? I sense a desire to get engaged in spite of the obstacles - why? As LO stated, there is enough resentment in your post to make one wonder if this is truly a good match...

AGG

[color:"purple"]I never said I was right and he was wrong. I'm just wrestling with the disconnect between his desire to own flashy expensive things that he can show off to his friends and then not understanding that I might have a similar desire when it comes to an engagement diamond.

And I'm saying this truthfully - the minute someone comes to his house he takes them on a tour to show them all the things that he has that are neat or expensive...

And I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that. He has a great emotional need for admiration.

We are not kids with no money. We are looking at expensive - very expensive homes. He has very expensive hobbies and cars. He spends money on himself but (apparently) it is more difficult for him to part with money on something that is not for him.

Unless he gets to show off the diamond, that is... :P

V.
[/color]

[color:"purple"]I am venting and I don't understand when you say getting engaged in spite of obstacles.

Wouldn't you feel a tad resentful if your wife went out and spent $40,000 on landscaping for the house because she wanted it to look pretty, but said no when you wanted to spend $6000 on a motorcycle? You'd want your wife to be happy with the house, and if you can afford it, you would probably be happy to spend the money on landscaping. You'd probably be equally able to afford the bike as well. So who wouldn't feel a bit left out if you can afford something but (she decides for you) that what you want is unnecessary.

Actually it is not me that is DJing here. He decided for me that a nice ring was too expensive. I did not decide for him that it was too expensive to buy the kind of house he envisions.

He asked me what I wanted and I told him a nice stone. Not a fabulous stone - that would run $16,000.

V.[/color]

Sunny,

I do see a bit of a double-standard with your finace and spending $, but the thing that bothers me the most is that your fiance states a standard for spending extra $ (the standard being that you two spend it on things you both enjoy), and then he seems to violate that standard.

For example, do you enjoy the sports car, or is it more his baby? Do you get to take it out for a spin without him? If it's not a truly shared thing, then why should he be able to put less equity down than you and why should you two spend more $ on a 3-car garage? How about the extra building for his hobbies? Do you both enjoy the same hobby, or is that also mostly for him? What about the pool & cabana?

I would try to POJA the issue of spending $ on mutual things vs. personal/hobby things.

This issue probably arises elsewhere in your relationship and that's why you have built up resentment. Do you feel like he values his needs more than yours in other areas? Do you feel like he has double-standards or inequity in others aspects of your relationship?

I am asking about "getting engaged in spite of the obstacles" because it seems to me that you and your BF have very deep and very serious differences when it comes to a very serious topic - money management. Not talking about the difference between splurging for a nice dinner vs cooking at home, but decisions which involve tens of thousands of dollars - and decisions where you do not agree with your BF's choices, and where I see no signs of a POJA.

Now, today it's the ring vs a sports car, tomorrow it might be college education for your kids vs a nice boat - you see what I am getting at. If you don't see eye to eye on this now, why get engaged? And yet you are getting engaged, hence my question about why get engaged in the presence of such obstacles. Does that make sense?

AGG

I think you might need to reconsider this engagement, too.

There are ways to work around this. But, it doesn't appear to me that you are doing so.

AGG:

I would never deny him something we could afford. I want him to be happy, too.

There was no POJA about previous purchases - we were not married - renters, right. So I really had nothing to say about the car.

There is active POJA going on now with regard to the house purchase. I want a more modest house which would allow us the cash to save for retirement and college for the kids - no $700 heating bills etc.

He wanted a spectacular house. After much discussion, we've agreed on a more modest house. We have the same practical outlook on things, however he is more emotional than I am and tends to caught up in the excitement of "shopping" and the whole grandness of some of these houses that we've seen. He didn't think about it until afterwards when we talked some more, that those professionally decorated grand places require professional maintenance - like a painter and decorator to come in every couple of years to reach those vaulted 2 story corners and hang drapes on those "wall of window" expanses.

He is a practical guy. Except when he is not practical. Honestly - his history is 90% practical. Spending splurges are not the norm. Because he is a practical guy is probably why he choked at throwing money at a ring. A trinket, really. Most guys do think that engagement diamonds are a waste - ask your buds.

V.

Thanks. He had time to think yesterday and as always I vent all day while he is thinking and he comes back with a thoughtful and caring solution.

I'm hot tempered, but don't want to cut loose on him so I vent and steam and try to be patient. He doesn't let me down.

I'm also very practical. When I realized he thought the expenditure was a waste I said ok plan B. Get a nostalgia piece - an antique.

I'm willing to negotiate and POJA.

V.

Is this guy for real? "Look at all the stuff I can charge on my credit card! Admire me!" "Wow, Bob, you sure have a lot of neat and expensive things -- you're so admirable!"

The day I admire someone because of what they wear, drive, swim in, or have sparkling on their finger is the day I think I can flush all my values down the toilet (the shiny, high-end, designer toilet in the McMansion that Bob wants admiration for...)

Hoopsie - people have different emotional needs. As far as I can tell harley supports the emotional need for admiration.

Just as he supports the need for an attractive spouse - another controversial one.

I know a lot of women who have extensive gardens and make a hobby out of it. Not solely for the enjoyment but also they enjoy showing it to their friends and conversing about the different things they are doing there.

V.

I have no problem admiring an admirable guy. I would admire him because of his values, his kindness toward others, his involvement in the community, his commitment to his family, his friendliness -- not because he can buy lots of [email]cr@p[/email] and show it off to people.

I just find that unfathomable -- both that he would see the act of buying stuff as something worthy of admiration and that others would admire him for it. Any [censored] with a Visa can buy a plasma TV or whatever; honestly, why is that admirable? What in that is impressive to your friends? I just don't get it.

Most of the "stuff" that BF gets usually is techno gadget heavy. Cool or unusual. To guys.

One of his friends recently bought a big plasma TV for his basement sports bar area. All of the guys thought it was great and wanted to take a peek at it.

It's a guy thing in that case.

Several women I work with have gotten engaged recently. All the women that were told immediately said Oh congratulations - let me see your ring. And admired it.

It's a gal thing.

I tend to be more like you. I really have trouble envisioning myself living in some mcmansion. I can't imagine walking across acres of carpet and hardwood in my underwear to get my morning coffee. Or hanging out in raggedy sweats and answering the door to a "tennis whites" kind of neighbor. It's just not my style.

BF is a very visual artistic kind of guy. The whole beautiful house thing appealed to him on a visual level. Just as you might get excited visiting the grand canyon and the effect of that on your senses. If BF visits the grand canyon he is overwhelmed.

He would actually be embarrassed if someone said he was being materialistic and deny it.

V.

There is a difference between expressing polite interest in your friends' toys and admiring them for purchasing them. At his funeral, they are not going to be packing the church to say his eulogy "That Bob, I remember fondly how impressed I was with his sports car and Xbox. The world's retailers will mourn his absence."

And I don't if it's a "girl thing" to ooh and ahh over someone's ring. Speak for yourself. I would be happy with a simple band if it were given in love and commitment by a man that I love, and if other women sniff at it then that's their problem. Similarly, I don't really care what other women wear on their fingers. Maybe I did when I was younger but it seems highly silly now.

The older I get, the more I realize that electronics and $6,000 diamonds and big beautiful houses are ephemeral. What matters are the human relationships you form and the legacy you leave in the world, not the stuff you buy to impress your buddies. And believe it or not, there are guys who share my view. I think calling it a "guy thing" is insulting to a lot of men out there.

Those are really mean things to say hoopsie. BF would pack a funeral because everyone would remember what a sweet and generous guy he is to his friends. And he has many friends.

I wouldn't dream of asking for something he couldn't afford. I'm just a little worried that he thinks his toys are more worthy.

It's very judgemental to assume he buys things to impress his buddies. He buys things that give him pleasure. He is so pleased that he can't wait to show others what he has because he is excited not because he is dying to make others envious.

You sound very bitter.

V.

How on earth am I bitter? You're the one who said he shows his friends all his shiny new toys because he has a big EN for admiration. That to me says he wants his friends to admire his stuff.

I'm glad he has lots of friends who admire him for his character and personality, not because he has a sports car and giant house. I think in the long run he will find those relationships far more valuable than the toys he buys himself and the temporary "excitement fix" he gets when he brings home the latest big box.

You see, the problem with getting excited about acquisitions is that there is always something new and shiny to buy, someone else's new and shiny toy to envy. It is an unsatisfying and restless way to live, IMO. The pleasures that come from "showing others what he has" are not particularly lasting or deep pleasures, from what I have seen.

I can see hoopsie's point. But I think you're letting your differences of opinion on "shiny things" overshadow the big picture.

It's gone from, "What elephant in the living room?" ... to, "No, the elephant that is not in my living room does NOT have red toenails!"

People are saying, hey, I see red flags, and you are quickly telling them that they don't.

BTW my hubby made my engagement ring from horsehair and there is not a ring in the world I would rather have. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hoopsie,
While you might disdain a materialistic person, its still a valid EN.

Everyone has different needs. And if Sunny's fiance has a top need for admiration, you might not appreciate it or value it, but your opinion doesn't matter.

As long as Sunny can meet his EN's, and he meets hers -- they should be perfectly fine as a couple.

Just because you've come to realize other things are important does not invalidate someone else's needs.
Guess it just means that you wouldn't be a good match for Sunny or her fiance.

And frankly there are a LOT of people in this world who admire cars, houses, and other material items. Doesn't make them WRONG, just different than you.

xPBC, I see your point, and all. I think he has a cheap streak. Or call it practical streak. I do as well.

When he bought his fancy car he bought it used so that he saved substantially off the sticker and got ahead of the depreciation.

His fancy boy toys and hobbies are almost always purchased second hand and part of the story he tells as he shows them off is how much he saved buying them.

He reads the label and buys the chemical rather than a box that advertises a specific function and costs twice as much.

The more I think about the whole thing, the more I realize that this is general - a "practical" streak when it comes to money.

Kind of ties into the other issues in the past over who pays kinds of things. Vacations, dinners, whatever.

V.