Interesting you should ask that. I'm being treated for depression because of this whole mess. Adjustment Disorder is the diagnosis. It's waiverable, but I'm on medication for it right now. I might pursue it down the road once this is behind me.

Papa,

I understand what you are saying. I was an infantry first sergeant. On the fast track towards division sergeant major. There are only 18 combat divisions in the whole US Army, and each one of those have a sergeant major. I would have been one of 18! In charge of over 14,000 soldiers!

And guess what? I had to turn it down and retire. Right when my unit...my 126 men...were ramping up to go to Afghanistan for a year. I had to stand down because of my wife, because of her selfisness and self-centeredness.

I also miss being there...miss the guys. I miss the adrenaline rush as you get ready to exit the aircraft and hit the ground running...into who knows what? it might be nothing...or it might be a hot LZ. You dont know if you will ever come back. I so miss being around other men that know that feeling and are willing to step off that bird beside you into that unknown.

It is a rush that you cannot get back here in the U.S. Unless you have lived thru it, you can't really know what that is like. it isnt bravado or glory seeking. Anytime you ask a vet what they thought of their time in the zone, they will tell you "I am no hero...but I served in the company of heros." It is a bond that no wife, no children, no friend back here can ever, ever replace.

It is a void, as you know!

But I am here to tell you that you are doing the right thing. In the military, it is all about priortizing, right? Putting the most important thing first. If the enemy is 30 feet away and shooting at me, I am not going to worry about the fact my boot is untied. First things first!

I am not sure of the priorities in your life, but let me tell you of mine. They go like this:

God
Wife
Children
Extended family
Virginia
United States
Friends
Evrything else

As long as they all hold their place, there are no problems. But when one tries to move higher than it should be, there begins to be huge problems! It is the same reason General Lee went with the Confederacy. He was an American, but he was a Virginian first. And when those two collided, he had to side with his Virginia. And so do I.

So, my wife decided to put herself ahead of God...to create her own throne. Well, that cannot be allowed! Thus, I put God first, and since she is out of line...I put the rest of the list before her. My firends now occupy a higher priority than my wife.

But in the case of you and I, we needed to put our families and marriages before our duty to country. Faced with what we have been faced with, there was no other choice. Not an honorable one!

But there are costs, unfortunately. The military loses out on a great pilot. It hurts our war effort. And that loss by our nation can be directly attributable to your wife and to the OM. They are responsible for the weakening of a nation. So, is my wife.

You have a duty to keep. And the top priorities must be first. So, contineu to do your duty. God knows how you miss those things the military offered. He will find a way to fill the void.

Stay on mission.

Standing in His Presence

Papa... all of these feelings are absolutely normal. Yep, every one of them. Every BS goes through the same process of evaluation, self-devaluation, missing what once was, and wondering what might have been.

That's why the MB program is so COMPLETE that it focuses on your own SELF-GROWTH. The philosophy is to make YOU a better person, regardless of how the marriage turns out. Consider these agonizing days as growing pains. God will not give you more difficulty than you can endure.

Take back the power you are giving so freely to your WW. Focus on what I found to be the critical point in my performance in Plan A. Emotional Detachment. Do not let anything the WW says or does impact how you approach every day. Treat this like a military mission. Make your plan, execute your plan, evaluate your plan and make necessary adjustments to improve the plan. Take back the power you've given to your WW.

She is a lost soul right now. Nothing you can SAY to her matters to her. Words directed to a WS are much like throwing cottonballs at a crocodile. Worthless.

After some careful introspection, decide what changes you can make in becoming a better husband, and set forth to make those changes. ACTIONS are the only things that will make an impact on a WS. Not just one or two actions, but a host of consistant positive actions over a sustained period of time. It is the cumulative sum of the sustained improvements that make a difference.

Wringing your hands and wondering if things will get better will change nothing. You, taking back the power, by positive thoughts and actions, will make a difference.

You can do this...
SD

PS... Listen to Mortarman... his advice is always right on the mark, and he's lived what he recommends.

Thanks MM. I really appreciate it.

I have video of my crew and I flying into Iraq through a thunderstorm. I posted it on youtube. If you search for the keywords Iraq combat video thunderstorm it should come up.

It is about 9 minutes long and it shows what honestly was the most scared I've ever been in the plane.

Incidents such as this when I was overseas made me think about my wife and kids. It made me see that they were the most important thing in my life and I was returning dedicated to become a better husband and father. It is what made the incidents that happened that much more devastating.

The date on the video says a lot to me as well. She had her sexual encounter 4 days after I filmed it. A ONS with the one of the 4 guys she cheated on me with.

I remember calling her after that mission and telling her how I felt I might die that day. It didn't matter to her.

If you or anyone watch the video, understand that we were in much more danger than it seems.

Thunderstorms are extremely dangerous to fly into and around. Lightning strikes are mild compared to other things that could happen in a storm. An updraft of wind, or severe turbulence could flip us upside down, bend wings, rip them off, or hail could seriously dent and damage the plane. I was actually praying as we were flying through it. I look calm in the video, but belive me, I was anything but and prayed just in case something happened.

I remember telling myself that day and others that if we were going down I would key the mike and say, "Tell my wife and kids I love them." so that the voice recorder would have it and the message would be delivered.

MM, I'm with you. I have accepted my new reality. I just long for the old one.

Maybe you and I and other military guys on here should get together and write a book about what we came home to with our WWs. It would be an interesting, if heartbreaking, read.

I know just how dangerous they are.

I flew back from Apalachicola FL last month surrounded by thunder boomers in a Beech Sundowner 180.

They ain't got no ride like that at Disney Land.




PS, It should be treason for a spouse to betray our couragous soldiers. My hat is off to you sir.

Hi Papa,

Please stop visiting her myspace site. Pretty please? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It does not help you ~ at all ~ and will not provide any Magic info that you could use to help her.

I'm very sure her friends are of her quality of character, and would be no help to you in influencing her. Birds of a feather, you know.

You're still obsessing about her. You didnt send the other letter, but now you're considering sending another to her friends.... please see how you are focusing too much of your energy on your exW. She's shown her colors... She's messed up, and she messed up. She's not worthy of you. I know you hoped for better but she's really made her bed.

If she accidentally figures it all out and gets her act together you'll know - because apologizing to you would have to be at the top of her list. Otherwise, she's an alien... dont bother, OK? I know this is hard and I do wish you the best... Please take care - Dru

She was 50% at fault for all of the things she has listed as being your problem.

Why didn't she explain to you that she was hurt by your Mother's reaction?

Why didn't SHE plan more fun events?

Why didn't she explain to you that she wasn't going to be Betty Crocker?

Why didn't she try harder to make it work before escaping to an A and blaming you for her failure to resolve the issues?

Please stop protecting her by accepting the blame.

Focus on YOU and your kids.

Thank you all for your words. You have no idea how much it helps. Or maybe you do.

Yes, I told her communication was a problem, obviously, since I had no idea she felt this bad about some things.

It is hard to want to be romantic when the person you're married to is sick and in bed all the time or depressed.

She doesn't see that.

As far as the "Betty Crocker" thing goes, I never expected that. I did warn her before we were married that marrying me meant she would move a lot, that I would have crazy hours, and would likely be gone a lot. She was happy to join and jump on board.

Truth is, I wanted her to work or study or do whatever it was that she found fullfilling. I thought that might be motherhood, but I got the guilt trip laid on me every time I came home about how hard it was to watch the kids alone and that I should tell her how great a mom she is.

I'm sorry, but putting our daughter in day care so you can be free to shop isn't being a great mom to me. Neither is leaving baby twins with a nanny to do the same. She volunteered on the base later, but would still not come home after being done with work because she would "run errands".

I personally couldn't wait to get home and get the kids and wanted to minimize their time in day care. Honestly, if she had the earning power, I would have been and still would be happy to be a stay at home dad.

I know I need to stop going to her site. I'm going to gain nothing.

I don't know if I'm stuck in denial or I'm just waivering back and forth in between phases of recovery. I sometimes hate her, other times wish she would come back and restore our family. Sometimes I think there's no way I could ever take her back, sometimes I desperately want signs that she wants to or eventually will. Sometimes I want to hurt her, as in the myspace thing and legal action, other times I want to protect her by not pursuing legal action.

A lot of the time I spend in disbelief. I find cards, love letters, momentos from her and see that it was less than a year ago that she gave me some of these things and we were ok. Less than a year ago we would make love in the mornings and have lunch together every single day (we wouldn't make love every single day, more like twice a month). I think of these things and wondered where they went. How could someone switch off their feelings this way?

I attributed her lack of interest in sex to the anti-depressants she was on, but outside of that I was content with my marriage. Sure, there were some things I wanted her to change. I wanted her to be more open to meeting other couples. I wanted her to dress nicer when out in public. Huge, oversized T-shirts and torn jeans were the norm. But I accepted these things and was ok with them.

Now she dresses nice all the time.

I did notice that she looks like she's gaining weight again. There are times I wish she would gain 50 pounds and have men be disappointed when they meet her! Other times I want her to be happy and make wise choices so that our kids have stability in their lives.

They are why I want to fight for more custody. I want to be able to see them every day and see how they're coping with all of this as they get older. I REALLY want to make sure that no one abuses them in any way. I don't trust her judgement.

I'm guessing everything I feel is normal, but it would be nice to hear from others if they went back and forth emotionally like this.

My biggest worry is that she will suddenly want to come back and it will be for the wrong reasons. She will expect me to cutoff my family again when I have rebuilt my relationship with my mother and other family members. I also think she'll only want to because she has hit rock bottom.

What I'm torn about in that scenario is that I would be able to have my children back as a daily part of my life, but at what cost? It will be at the cost of my own personal happiness with my exww, unless she REALLY tried to make amends for the damage she's done. It will be at the cost of contact with my own family, who hates her now after what she's done.

But that's neither here nor there. We're divorced and she's not wanting to come back.

Time to prepare for the battle. That's what I've been doing. Keeping a daily diary, keeping bank records, etc.

It is important to remember that her behavior is about HER and not about the problems in your M.

It is NOT about the problems in your M (and her personal problems), but rather her inability to deal with those problems in a contructive manner.

Its NOT about the problems in your M, did I mention that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

A very intersting development....

An ex of mine, the one I dumped for my current exw, has filed for D from her husband who she has caught cheating. We're both going through the same thing at the same time. She's at a different place than myself, emotionally, because she was unhappy in her marriage and I was happy in mine. She feels relief to be ending it, I'm still grieving mine. We've been there for each other and have cried to each other when our ws's hurt us.

Now she wants to visit me. She lives in Cali, I'm in MD.

Honestly, this is the first woman that I have met or been in contact with since my divorce that has given me hope for the future. I really feel that in time, enough healing, and when the dust settles for both of us, she could be someone I could very much fall in love with.

It is too soon after my D for me, but I have to admit that I'm very excited about her possibly visiting.

She's very much who I should have chosen 7 years ago. She's mature, comes from a good family, is a great mom, and my family loves her. I was stupid 7 years ago because I turned her down when I had the opportunity to persue the relationship. I was being faithful to the now exW that I had been seeing for only a few months.

Before people jump on me about this, I want to make sure everyone understands that I never encouraged her to divorce. Quite the opposite, I directed her to MB and encouraged her to talk to him to see if she could work it out. I also told her that her contact with me made me uncomfortable because she was a married woman and I had to respect that. I did give her ideas, however, on how to spy on him to find out if he was cheating and warned her that his words were those of a WS.

When she discovered his infidelity, however, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. She has repeatedly told me that there is no chance in a million years that she would forgive him for what he's done. I have challenged her on this regularly, asking if she would forgive for her son or if he wanted to be forgiven. She says that she's been unhappy and arguing with him for over 3 years.

He doesn't want forgiveness. Has told her that she's only been a mom and not a wife. That he wanted out 3 years ago. Both she and him are happy to be ending it.

I've been up front with her about where I am emotinally as far as my exW goes. She's heard me cry when I've been hurt by her, as in the laundry list of my errors as a husband. I called her about it and cried as I explained what I had been told. I've also admitted that if exW wanted to try and reconcile, I would try for my kids. She asked me last night if I was happy in my marriage. I told her I was. I was very happy and felt even stronger about it while I was deployed.

I haven't told her how I feel as far as where things could go between her and I down the road. I don't think it would be right at this time. We both have joked about how this whole thing is my fault because I should have chosen her 7 years ago.

I'm not sure why I'm sharing this on MB. I know some people will think that I'm playing a role in the end of her marriage, but I've honestly not been a factor. I had no contact with her for 6 years since we both got married or were serious with somone else.

This whole thing was heading towards divorce before I heard from her again.

I'm just sharing this. It is one of the few things in the past months that has made me happy. We're not running off together or getting married tomorrow or anything like that. Neither one of us is willing to leave where we live because of our kids.

It has been a good source of mutual support for me, though.

Okay, I just wrote you a very long response about the propriety of any contact with this woman from your past and, then, had to delete it because I remembered you are already divorced. I would suggest, though, that you avoid even the appearance of impropriety so as not to adversely affect your custody battle.

Regards,

BB

Hi Papa,

Out of the frying pan, into the fryer?

Please do not allow this MARRIED woman to travel almost 3000 miles to 'visit' you. She's not divorced, you are barely divorced. A complicated, long distance relationship is only going to cause pain. If she's really 'the one' then she'll wait for her D and for you to get your head together. Can you imagine leaving your kids to move cross country for this woman? Would you expect her to?

You admit it - you're not OK right now. You're reeling from the D, you've got so many things to sort out. Custody isnt even permanently established, right? You are NOT in a healthy frame of mind - this would be totally the wrong time to start a long-term relationship. If she were your daughter, could you recommend her getting involved with you right now? You were pining over your exW yesterday, you're not emotionally available, just yet.

I know this would be a welcome distraction from your thoughts of your exW, but this isnt the answer. I hope you can see that. Just my $0.02 - Dru

I'm still not clear - why do you care what your ex-wife says your failings are?

That's not exactly what I would call an unbiased source.

And I wouldn't pin all my hopes on this prior ex of yours turning out to be the woman of your dreams, either. It does sound like you might need to get laid, but don't make more of it than it has to be. You sure as heck don't sound like you are over your ex-wife; don't get involved with some one else too soon. By all means, have some fun - it sure sounds like you deserve it, but see if you can get some kind of perspective before you start dreaming about someone who you already rejected.

Free advice, and worth every penny.

Regards,
rs0522

Adding my $.02 worth. Listen to Dru...she's exactly on the mark.

You cannot achieve a clean floor when you add mud to your mop bucket.

Adding the first ex to the mix will do nothing but keep you confused, and further complicate your ?efforts? to get your WexW to return to the family fold.

With that said, I know that any friendly conversation (read: deposits in a wayyy overdrawn love bank) will feel ever so good to you. You are in too unbalanced a position to recognize ANY signals you may recieve from EX#1 unblurred.

Pardon the play on words, but cool your JETS and get closure in your current situation before you put yourself in an awkward and painful position.

Why look for an emergency runway, when your plane is not spiralling towards the earth?

SD

Thanks again to all.

Seriously, I'm not starting anything with my old ex. I think down the road, when things settle for the two of us, then MAYBE. Big maybe because I am not willing to leave here without my kids and she says she doesn't want to leave Cali. So, no. We couldn't have a relationship if that is going to permantently be the case.

No, this isn't an attempt to get the EXWW to come back. There's no comparison between the two women.

Yes, I need closure. I want to get it. I'm going to fight for it.

If anything were to happen with this ex, it will be waaaay down the road. I like her enough to not rush into anything because that would only doom it to fail.

Caution...caution!!

Papa, these are the EXACT same things people tell themselves right before they become WSs. You go near that ex, with all of the hurt and pain the two of yo uare going thru...and you WILL hook up. And you WILL be guilty of adultery. And so will she.

Do you want to be like the OM(s) in your case? Do you want her to end up an adulterous wife?

Come on man. I understand your excitement. This might be the first positive thing you have felt in this whole mess. But, you need ot take one thing at a time, okay?

Priorities! She needs to get her marriage over with, if it indeed goes to that. You need to get your custody situation settled. You both do not need this right now.

look, she contacted you and you both have (maybe) some feelings after all of this time. If that is true, they will be there in a few months when it is proper to go after them.

For now, protect yourself. And be the man, and protect her.

Standing in His Presence

Patience is key. Yes.

MM, seriously, I hadn't talked to this woman in years. She filed for D on her own. It is happening. I had no part in it. He's happy to be divorcing and continue is WS lifestyle. She is happy to be getting rid of him.

We're not getting into a relationship. We've supported each other through this time. Yes, I'll admit, she's the first woman that has made me feel alive and excited since my D. She lives in CA and I live in MD. That forces us to take our time and wait to start anything until her D is final.

Because I like her so much, I do want to make sure I can give my heart to her when the time is right.

My lawyer confused me a bit, but I talked to her this morning. She told me NOT to invite ex on any excursions with the kids. She told me to NOT contact her in any way other than dealing with the kids, because it could be twisted in court that I'm just trying to get her back.

My confusion was in the fact that last week she told me it was ok to send her pics of the kids with me and to invite her to go feed the ducks, for example.

I guess the former request is the safer one. She is filing for a modification of custody next week. She told me it would likely be a few weeks before the court gave us a date to go to mediation, which will be mandated.

She said the contempt issue will be filed separately. She wants to separate the money from the kids. This would obviously work in my favor.

MB and my lawyer are my reality checks. My lawyer assures me that she is blowing smoke and trying to control me when she really is unable to and doesn't have grounds for it.

Yes, there is contempt, yes I have grounds for custody modification.

I just have to be patient, keep the faith, and be strong emotionally.

Thanks to everyone here for their advice and support.

My lawyer assures me that she is blowing smoke and trying to control me when she really is unable to...

Exactly... She is still in the WW frame of mind. Nothing that she says is rational, because the fog still exists. People in the WS frame of mind say crap all the time they don't mean, don't remember, most of which is all in the interest of justification of their self-entitled actions.

Put very little stock in what she says, and don't allow yourself to be entrapped into the drama. It sucks the energy you need to begin living your life in your best interest, not in any interest of the exWW.

Hang in there...
SD

Exposure or vindictiveness?

I've stated, and have been tempted to, go online on myspace and write all of my ex ww "friends" on her friends list and tell them what she did to me while I was deployed. I wanted to create a page that showed real, not posed, pics of her and to expose her adultery to her "friends". I'm sure the military guys on there would appreciate what I said.

This does come out of anger, but it infuriates me to see how she lies on her site and says things like, "I'm fiercely loyal to those I love". I read that and think about her infidelity and want to tell everyone on her list, "Don't believe her! This is what she did to me! Her husband, the father of her children! She left the kids with a nanny so she could go committ adultery!"

Granted, all this would do is infuriate her and in the end I ask myself what I'd gain other than exposing her, but putting an even greater wedge between her and I as we attempt to be civil towards one another.

So, what does everyone else think? I'm guessing most everyone will tell me to let it go and use that energy towards improving myself. I keep telling myself that, but temptation always creeps in to take this step.

None of those people could influence her in a positive way. IMHO, you'd be wasting your time, and ENERGY, still allowing her to control your thoughts. What response would you expect? Yes, she'll be angry, but nothing good will come of it.

What is the expression used often in reference to WS's who go their "own" way, and their lives come crashing down upon them.... "Revenge is best served cold" This mean that the best revenge will be realized by you moving on and living a happy and successful life with complete disregard for what your WexW is doing.

Focus on YOU, papa. Stop visiting her Myspace website. Let go. The longer you hang on, the more damage you do to yourself. Life is about YOU today, and your KIDS. That's where you interest and energy should be devoted.

The sooner you detach and move "on" in your personal healing and recovery, the sooner your WexW crashes, and comes sniveling back to you. She will have hit rock bottom, and you will be standing tall, well into recovery, and in a much better "place" to make a decision as to whether you want her, or not.

Move on, papa, healing and personal growth should be near the top of your list, right behind your God and your kids. Do this for all of you.

Best wishes,
SD