Lordslady - Just wondering how you are and what has been going on - I hope all is well.... I just check in now and then - don't really post but I realized I haven't seen you around...

I wondered the same thing. I even emailed her, no reponse yet. I noticed the last thread she posted she got a lot of flack from some members...

I have also thought about her. It's been months. If Drita is still around maybe she has spoken with her, I know they live in the same town.

cm

I got an email from her in late April. At that time, things were not going well for her in just about every way (particularly with her daughter). I encouraged her to at least pop on and give an update once in a while but obvously she hasn't done that. I hope she realizes that there are many here who care and miss her, and would love to hear from her.

I am still around, and yes, I think of many of you, too. I've made it a point to not log into MB very often. I also don't check yahoo mail very often. I did get the email. I would like to post an update for people I do believe care, but am also hesitant for fear of being hammered again by people who are probably well-meaning but who don't understand my situation. I do enough hammering on myself. I don't need help. So I'm thinking.

LL

Lordslady - post away - who cares about the negative answers just expect them and don't look at them.. truly we hope that you are ok - and at least thanks for posting this - but post and update and write no comments or something to that effect... you know???

I'm glad you are alive... and problems... huh... life would be boring if everything would go too smoothly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I promise I will not hammer you and will be nice to you (as I have always been)
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
And you... don't pay attention if some of posters might do that... reply just to those replies you find helpful and comfortable with.
So...?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LL,
I am praying for you and your situation. It was nice to see your post. We miss you.
KK

It's probably a bad idea to post here, because if people post a bunch of 2x4's about my parenting again, I will get even more emotional than I already am. That's bad. I'm going to start by pasting something from another website. This website article on CD describes my daughter to a "t".

http://www.healthofchildren.com/C/Conduct-Disorder.html

There are websites that discuss CD as being one of the most difficult things a parent can ever encounter with a child, and that the parent ends up frequently being blamed by others as the cause of the child's delinquency, by somehow not parenting properly, which makes it even more difficult. I totally agree with all this. And most of the articles I see regarding treatment stress the importance of support for the parents. That would be the issue--because there isn't much support out there.

-----------------------------------------------------------
As for my update, here goes:

I wish I could say things are just peachy. They're not. I've been up/down/back/forth and fallen on my head so many times over the past few months in regards to my biblical convictions that I am pretty much sick at this point.

I had to stop going to the therapist because she doesn't take credit cards and my ex quit paying child support back in January. Between the lack of funds and my complete denial of bills for a while, my credit has been totally trashed. (My fault totally--when the $$ stopped, I had so many other things to deal with that I couldn't face the bills, too. So I didn't pay them timely.) I finally got paperwork through so that the ex's wages are now being garnished, but that didn't start until late July.

My daughter: Last I posted, she was probably either just back from her 3 months of flopping in dorm rooms in Iowa City, or she was still there. She's home now. One abortion and another probable miscarriage under her belt. Since coming home in the spring, she's been in California for 3 weeks with a friend who moved there, and then she took off on one of her Minneapolis weekend visits, wasn't where she was supposed to be when her ride came home, and ended up being stuck up there for 2 weeks, bouncing from place to place of people she barely knows.

She was arrested back in the late spring for illegal prescription drugs, and before that hit the juvenile system, she was arrested for stealing $300+ in clothing from one of the malls. She was subsequently arrested for yet another illegal ID and tobacco possession--I've refused to pay the fines, so the state of Iowa is now on her for collection. Her Juvenile Intake Officer says just sit on them until her court date for the theft, which is 9/8.

This is my last hope to help her. I can't control her--she is so far beyond anything I can do, that I live now by locking my bedroom door each day while I'm gone (I fortified the lock so she can't break the door again)), and all things that matter to me are locked in there. My purse is locked in there with me when I sleep at night, so that she doesn't lift $$ from my wallet.

She said once she was going to get a job, but I think she applied at Hot Topic and that was it. No job, no schooling...just parties 24/7 and I, by law, provide food, clothing and shelter. And she gets angry when there isn't food to her liking and reminds me what a failure of a mother I am.

Is it possible to love someone and hate them at the same time? I love her to the point my heart breaks, and I can't even look at her "little girl" pictures anymore because it makes me so sad for what is now gone. But I hate how she treats me, how she walks all over me and uses all sorts of language and threats when she doesn't get her way. I hate how she does nothing for herself and yet destroys my kitchen and bathrooms with garbage and refuses to pick any of it up, leaving me to clean constant messes. And tonight she's angry because I won't immediately run out and put more minutes on her prepaid cell phone! I want to help her--I just don't know how. I live with the fear that she'll get herself killed before she wakes up and gets her life together. At this point, I just pray to God to keep her safe.

She turned 17 on 8/4, so less than one year and she'll be an adult. I see little hope of her changing her behavior unless this court thing helps. It's my last hope. The juvenile officer is going to try and get her set up on some sort of probation with a tracker she has to report to, and is also trying to get her accepted into a juvenile drug program (because it's suspected that along with her tobacco use and her drinking, that there is at least occasional pot smoking). He said they may also be able to force her to do some sort of schooling. She'll probably run if they crack down too much. They don't see a way to get her admitted to a residential facility unless she violates her probation. So that's all I can do for now.

And I just found out that by law she is required to be represented by an attorney. So I have to hire one (with money I really don't have) between now and next Friday, and then some way try and figure out how to make it clear that I DON'T want him/her getting the charges reduced. I want her to face the consequences of her actions. It's the only way she may learn.

My ex: He got married a couple weeks ago to the floozie he left me for. Guess not all affairs end. My daughter refused to go. My son, who has had virtually no contact with his dad since the divorce, actually went because as he said, his dad did financially support him while he was growing up. The wedding was rather fancy, considering they'd both been married before. Fancy white dress with a long train, 4 attendents each, bunches of her family there...and only 9 people there from my ex's side. Anyway, what's done is done. It was weird in a way to hear that he married her. I don't want him back, but it just seems so odd to think about what I used to have and how much it all changed. He is a totally different person than he was even when we filed for DV. It's heartbreaking to see what he's become. My mom and I pray for him--I even pray for the floozie--that they might wake up and find the Lord before it's too late.

My son: Doing well in college. Moved into an apartment this fall with his girlfriend of 3 years instead of living in the dorm. That's hard for me, because of my beliefs, but yet I have to love him and support him. I asked him if he had ever considered marrying her. Nope--that'd be silly, since they're just enjoying each other's company, but aren't sure they want a future together. (What is the world coming to!??!)

Then there's me: I am still seeing R--it's been over a year now. In many ways he's the ideal guy. He dotes on me when we're together. He has completely integrated me into his family. I even went with the whole crew (his mom/dad, brother and sis-in-law, his 3 kids, and his oldest daughter's boyfriend) on a week long vacation to northern MN last month where we all shared 2 cabins. It was a very nice time, and it was completely platonic.

However, we have not remained platonic. I fell in late January/February. Maintained semi-control until April or May when everything in my life was just too much and I quit fighting and gave in. Things, from his perspective, were great until July when I finally made it back to church over his way and the sermon was about the cost of being Jesus' disciple. Talk about a knife to my heart!

I realized, once again, that all I'd been doing was running away from God and my convictions. So "the issue" came up again. And we've struggled and disagreed and I've given in, and then two weeks ago I tried SO hard to maintain, and once again failed, and I was just about beside myself. I didn't even make it through the night before the guilt hit me. And it's not left.

I told him we either have to NOT DO THAT or we have to not see each other. He didn't like the latter, so last weekend we maintained, but it required him to not lay a hand on me. We both are aware that's not a realistic way to think we're going to have a relationship, and he's got all these convoluted ideas that sex before marriage isn't wrong in God's eyes for us because in God's eyes we're married.

WRONG! We're not married until we have the official document and we've pledged ourselves to each other before God and witnesses! And while he's talked about marriage with me, he's not comfortable doing it until next summer (which coincidentally is when my daughter turns 18). I am 99% sure it's because he knows he will come to blows with her if he's my husband, and he doesn't want to deal with that until she's an adult and I'm no longer legally responsible for her.

So, last night we hit a big impass on the phone and he said some things that really scared me. I want so much to believe he is a Christian, and he gets really angry when I question his beliefs. But while he believes that a person is saved simply by believing that Jesus died for them, I believe that if they have true saving faith, there will be a change of heart that goes along with that (repentance and turning from sin), and so I don't understand how he can continue pushing for sex and not see that it's wrong. And he doesn't understand why I am, in his eyes, rather wacko and fanatical.

Doesn't help that the more I read the bible to find peace (which it used to bring me), the more I keep reading about the narrow gate that few will find, and the broad path that many will travel. Being in accounting, I work with numbers. I am well aware that more people are statistically in the "many" group than in the "few". I want to be saved, but I question how that is even possible if I continue to walk in disobedience. Where is my change of heart given to me by God when I was saved? If my heart is really changed, then I better be willing to give up anything for God. (Deny self, as the bible says).

I need supportive Christian friends, but they've been hard for me to find, given my tendency to be introverted and my tendency to spend long hours at work. I haven't found a new church yet here either. I've attended three different ones. The first was just a big production with a dark stage and stage lighting and a loud band and lots of poeple showing off their singing skills. The second was very family-oriented and conservative, with a piano and organ, and I saw virtually no one there who wasn't part of a couple. The third I attended was actually the most comfortable, though it is an Assembly of God which is very different than my upbringing. But I"m going to try it again. Point being, right now I have no pastor to call, no mature Christian friends to lean on, I have nuttin!

My sister is supportive to a point, but she doesn't share my beliefs. My mom is more supportive, and she DOES share my beliefs, but she's a worrier, too. So I can't dump on her all the time. I had an assistant at work that I shared some with, but she recently moved to Las Vegas (so to add to my stress, I'm also training a new person at work which makes that extra stressful). There is one other woman I've spoken with a few times at work who seems to share my beliefs, but we rarely get much time to visit. She's married with a family, so that doesn't leave after-work options.

I still play Bunco with my neighbor ladies once a month just to remain social, but I've all but been laughed out of the group when I shared that the reason R and I were having difficulty was because I didn't believe sex was right outside of marriage. You'd have thought I was from another planet! It hurt that they couldn't be supportive, but instead made comments like "Wow, if I said that to my husband when we were dating, he'd have left me in a minute!" Or they joked about how it might be possible, but it would mean meeting someone and marrying them within about 3 weeks.

I'm feeling pretty beaten. So I've made another appointment with the therapist who I've not seen since May. Given that I've now found that I have to hire this attorney for my daughter, I don't see myself doing more than one or two sessions or I'll again be out of money.

I've tried to pray that God would open R's eyes to his sin and that somehow he could work miracles and let us be able to work this out and stay together. But each time I've prayed in life, and seen little rays of hope, the sky has always ended up falling in the end. Maybe God says "no" to my prayers because I lack faith. It's just so hard to have faith when you feel like no matter what happens, there's no way out of it but more pain.

I can't deny God and have peace. I need to obey him. And right now I'm obeying out of fear of eternal damnation, and not for the real reason which should be out of joy and love. (Granted, I truly do feel that what I was doing was a sin...it's not that I'm just grudgingly agreeing with God to stay out of h*ll. I want to do what he says in my mind, but then I keep falling into temptation and messing it up.)

It's just all very hard. I sometimes wonder if I"m going to struggle like this all my life. I am pretty much beyond simple depression these last few days and right smack in the middle of dispair. I hate it. But just giving in and going back to my old, easier lifestyle with R won't solve the issue. What I really want is peace with the Lord and that assurance that I'm close to Him, which seems to elude me.

So there you have it--an update. Wish it were more encouraging.

LL

Well, it is, your love life part.
You are still with the guy you love to be with, accepted by his family, he talks about marriage, and you want that...

So, why wouldn't you set a firm wedding date with him? (Next summer? Not so much time, the time is passing by so quickly...) And then start some preparations for the wedding, new life...?


I hope your daughter will find the way out.
In some cases, only God can help our children...

Lordslady - thanks for the update - I wish that everything was running much more smoother... but as for your daughter - it is so easy to tell someone else how to raise their child - than to actually raise a child with all of these issues - I have friends that have children in much worse conditions and truly you don't know what you would do unless it was your child - so no beating up there.. continue to do what is best in your eyes... as for R. I say you love him he loves you go for it - but you don't hold those beliefs so that is a struggle for you but - the "damage in your eyes" is already done so live your life and be happy..

LL,
Many here are glad to see an update on you.

Just a question: why do you have to hire an attorney- can't she use a court appointed attorney?

cm

LL, Good to "see" you again. Things don't sound so bad. At this point, allowing your DD to reap the consequences of her own behavior is probably the most powerful and loving thing you can do. And things with R sound really good, except for your continued struggle with your beliefs.

I'd be interested, too, in whether your DD can get a court appointed attorney and whether you and R could get married, sooner than later, even if you aren't ready to relocate yet. I remember you entertained this possibility in the past. Now that things have come this far, maybe you could consider that option again?

LL - Hi!!!!

I believe you posted to me a long time ago, when I was shortly past D-Day. I appreciate you taking time to post to me.

Do not beat yourself up over the "can't wait" issue.

King David had the same issues (but he added murder, and involved a lot of people). God continued to use him.
Still - try to stick to your guns. Maybe move to courting instead of dating. Go out with friends in separate cars. Go home separately.

The "we are married in God's eyes" is a copout. (I am not sure about the paper decree - but I agree that a declaration before God is the start point. I am not wise enough to back that up with specific scripture, however...) But I can understand how he is thinking. Thing is - he is also NOT married in God's eyes, and desertion would not be D.

Yes - you will know them by their fruits. Does that mean that those that are not fruitful are not saved? Not necessarily. Heaven has janitors. I think it has lots. We are working now, for our retirement, in the eternal sense. (IMHO)

Any chance you are in SoCal? Look for a church associated with Calvary Chapel. They tend to be not be so uptight. The CC churches are led by a bunch of ex-hippies (and current hippies), and continue to welcome the ones who are in most need of God's love and acceptance. (read: broken, real people) I am not saying you are broken. I am saying - I attend a CC church, and it is unlike anything this baptist-since-birth, raised in the church singin in the choir boy has ever seen. Not just kinda. Yes- contemporary music. But a heart of caring for the people in the seats. Not about the production. Let me know if you need help finding one of them.

Thanks for the update. I will say a prayer for you and your daughter.

foundareason

Hi [color:"blue"] LL [/color]
It's great to see you post again!
Does your state/county have a "guardian ad litem" program? This is what our area does, it helps kids who don't have parents, or their parents can't pay for attorneys, to have help through the court system. It seems kind of strange to FORCE a parent to pay for an attorney; aren't there court-appointed ones?

I'm sorry about your WH getting married. I know,even after all that you've been through, a part of you must have hurt at that. I know I hurt at hearing my WH got married this summer also.


You know you'll get a dozen different responses on this board to the scriptural applications of "wait until marriage". At one time you were going to post to LH, did you ever do that? He and his wife share an email and I bet they'd be glad to correspond with you about their story and give encouragement from a similar perspective.

Also, I encourage you to re-visit the AOG church. (Hopefully by now you have!) Their beliefs are very much in line with what you've indicated in the past that yours were, and people should visit a church for several times before making a decision to "stick there". Since your relationship still seems to be a little up and down, I would encourage you to visit without R, to make your own decision about it.

A few responses:

Location: No, I'm not in SoCal. I'm in Iowa. A few miles apart, unfortunately.

Daughter and the attorney: I still have to contract with someone--getting down to the wire. As for the court-appointed suggestion, I already asked that. I do have a financial assistance form I could fill out and if I qualified, the state would pay for an attorney for her. But I am well aware that with my income level I don't qualify. I just spend a lot of money on a house payment, car payment, groceries, gasoline, a son in college, etc. I've been down the road before trying to get financial assistance. It doesn't work. So rather than have them find an attorney and then bill me (which is what the paper says will happen if I apply for assistance and then don't qualify), I'm picking my own attorney. Just need to get it done.

Rick/Marriage: Not yet. He is very open about how he feels very comfortable with me and since spring has frequently thought about marriage. However, he's got this thing in his head about "appearances", and something about the fact that to his kids it still seems soon (his daughters were upset with their mom because she married her current husband 15 months after they started dating), and how his kids and my kids have never met--he wants everything as he puts it "to look Kosher". I told him he's too hung up on appearances and things being "perfect" and that it's never going to be perfect. He agrees that he's obsessive about it, but then reminds me that when we first met he was pretty honest about wanting 2 years. So right now, marriage is out.

As for the "waiting until marriage", I take the bible literally and nothing is going to change my mind on that. Now the fact that I keep stumbling is evidence that I have not taken repenting or putting my love for Christ above my love for myself seriously (I saw my therapist today--it was pretty harsh to hear and I started to justify how I really wanted in my mind to obey but that I keep falling, and she told me flat out to not justify, that I'm being double-minded, and that if I really wanted to obey, I'd do whatever it took to make it happen, even if that meant not seeing R.)

I about died when my husband left. The thought of going through another breakup with someone I love and want to spend my life with, and that breakup being all of my doing this time...which means I would be breaking 2 peoples' hearts....I just get sick when I think about it. I am aware that the only way I can be certain that I will not sin again sexually with R is to stop seeing him. I'm scared that this is what repentence truly means in this situation. Maybe even never date again because I know I am weak in this area when my emotional needs are being met, and I know the views I hold are rare in today's world.

My therapist reminded me today that sin starts with thought, and that we shouldn't be in situations where we are lusting after each other. And that's tough when you've already gone to a level with someone and you know what it's like. I look at him and I want to be close. She said that she thinks I've never matured and learned to have true intimacy in a relationship, and that all I've learned is physical intimacy. She said that's the easiest kind to have, but that intimacy on all levels is necessary for a relationship, and that God is very clear that we are to flee sexual immorality and that he warns us about that one more than any other one in the bible.

So, I'm feeling rather defeated, yet I'm going to see her again in 2 weeks.

She did stress that it is very important for me to get grounded spiritually in some group or something somewhere. I have no trusted female friend, Christian or otherwise, and in thinking back, really haven't had a good female friend since highschool who I felt I could call on in an evening if I needed company or needed some support. I just sit around my house in silence because I'm introverted and it's the easiest thing to do after a long day at work, but it's bad because when you have from 8pm-midnight to just sit and think in silence, your mind can really mess with you.

As for posting to LH, I did a long time ago. He and his wife sent me some sermon notes which I still have saved in an email. But from there on, I haven't corresponded with anyone. As I expressed to my therapist, I feel right now that I am more of a burden to people, and that because no one really knows what to say and they feel rather overwhelmed, they just shy away. And then I pull back because I feel like I'm a bother.

Yes I did visit the AOG church again this weekend. It was a good service. The therapist was a little surprised I'd choose that denomination, given my fears already about assurance of salvation, because they believe you can lose your salvation. She said it probably wouldn't be her first choice for me, but I told her that I felt comfortable in the service so will probably go back again.

Finally, I thought I could report a bit of victory this weekend, seeing as R and I saw each other from Friday evening straight through to this morning and we did not have sex. Given the amount of alone time we spent, I felt (until today at therapy) that it was a fairly decent victory and that perhaps there was hope, since we've had two successful weekends in a row now. But there was one one evening (Saturday) where we were at my place watching TV and things got quite heated a couple times during the evening--I guess to use the terms of today, "heavy petting" would properly define the situation. That, I have now been painfully reminded, falls under "lusting" which is sexual immorality, which is still going too far, even though we stopped.

I guess I want it both ways. I want to obey God, but I don't want to give R up. I'm scared I can't have both together.

There are lots of times lately when I truly regret ever looking for another relationship. I don't like being without a partner, but at least back then wasn't faced with choosing God vs. someone else. I had no one else. My only choice was God. And in that respect, I had much more peace.

I do think you all for holding your parenting comments to a minimum, by the way. I feel bad enough as it is about my failures in that area...things I should have done years ago and didn't that might have caused a different outcome today.

LL

LL - Hopefully your daughter will get through this time. As they get mature, they usually do. I've known many kids that have done similar things - kids that I lost any hope for. One is now a minister.

Hang in there. I will pray for you and your loved ones.

Just a couple things:

Daughter: Had the pre-trial hearing. Am waiting to hear back from the Juvenile Court Officer assigned to her case. First impression of her seems okay. The tentative plan is to get my DD back in some kind of schooling or GED program, get her into an intensive outpatient substance abuse program, require her to spend nights at home, and to have no out-of-state jaunts without permission of the JCO. We go back to court in November. Nothing in writing yet--the JCO is making some calls to different schools and drop-in centers. The biggest issue is transportation. My DD can't get a drivers license until she's 18, unless she pays the state restitution, takes drivers ed (cost near $400), and has a permit for 6 months. So I'm looking at a LOT of driving myself to get her to these places, none of which are even remotely close to where I work, which is further into the 'burbs than where I live. The EX, who decided for some unknown reason to show up at the hearing (even though he does zero toward parenting), right now says he might be willing to help transport her home if I can transport her TO the places. We'll see. He also said he'd pay child support, then quit in January and it took until August of this year to get it restarted. But I want to help her, so I'm doing what I can.

Relationship with R: We've seen each other 3 straight weekends (but only for a day last weekend--no overnight) and have been successful in being abstinent. I'm happy with the current success, but go into each weekend with renewed fear that I'll fail, because all my past has been is failure in this area with him.

It's doubly difficult because we've found the best way to not go there is to not even start anything--including kissing--and that is just WAY hard! I want so much to be close! So for the most part we've avoided any sort of physical intimacy other than holding hands or giving shoulder rubs while watching TV. R doesn't know how to handle it because it's totally new to him (and me, too) and is struggling with frustration over the whole deal, including the new idea we've discussed with eliminating overnights, which means seeing each other for one partial day per week. We're not used to that at all, and I have fears that our relationship will just die a slow, agonizing death. We're used to being together all weekend. So not only are we removing the physical intimacy, but we're removing a good share of our together-time. I'm still trying to come up with options that would let us spend more time together but haven't met with much success yet.

I'm looking for a guarantee that he'll stick with me no matter what and have a great fear of going through the loss of someone I love again, and he's not able to give me that guarantee. And he's not comfortable marrying until his kids are comfortable with it, and right now he feels that it is too soon, based on discussions with his daughters. But on the few occasions I've suggested maybe he'd be more content if we parted ways and he looked for someone who lived closer or who didn't share my strict beliefs, he's been very honest about the fact that with the exception of this "major bugaboo" as he calls it, which is revamping the whole way we deal with each other right now, he feels we are the perfect match.

LL

Prayers are always welcome for my DD! I have also had many people tell me stories of people they've known who seemed beyond hope who have also pulled their lives together as they've gotten older. Of course for some, it's taken them into their 30's or so to get there. I just am so afraid something awaful will happen to her BEFORE she reaches that point. Maybe God is trying to teach me patience.

LL

LL, that's a very difficult request to honor, because the future is uncertain, and the request can easily be interpreted as requesting unconditional love, which attempts to remove personal responsibility from the relationship.