This is just a little something about my situation; my wife started an affair in July of 04. In April of 05, (I guess the guilt got too much for her to stand) she informed me of the affair, told me that the spark was gone. even though she still loved me, she was no longer in love with me, I told her that we could work this out ,but she said that she needed to get on with her life, So, I agreed to give her a divorce and we would both go our separate ways. About two weeks later, she decided that she wanted to save our marriage, at that time I did not want a divorce and wanted to save our marriage. We had been married for 15 years and dated two years before that. I thought the best thing to do was work it out; there was my two-step daughters and stepson to conceder and four grandchildren, even though they were grown and had lives of there own I did not want to upset the balance of the family.

In Dec of 05, I discovered that she had not ended her affair with OM. She left his Christmas present on the kitchen counter. I decided to get the divorce and she begged me to wait until after the holidays, I agreed and decided to wait, just so happens my youngest daughter was pregnant and due the first week of April. So I was asked once again to hold up on the divorce until our granddaughter was born.

My wife was continuing to see the OM, and told me that I should put my profile on one of those dating sites; I posted my profile and did not get many responses. She kept telling me to post my picture, I posted my picture and a couple of days later I started to get a few e-mails, so I started talking to this woman in another city, after a month of e-mails and phone calls we decided to meet. I went on my first date in 17 years.

Upon returning from my date, my wife went in to a fit of sorts. She started begging me to stay, telling me how much she still loved me and wanted to be with me for the rest of her life. She called OM and broke it off with him. I let OW know that I was going to try and save my marriage and that, I needed her to stop calling me.

So for about two weeks I did not know if OM was still calling but, I decided to give it another go. Well that is when the things went south again, the woman that I had been talking to called to see how everything was going, I told her that I believed that we were going to be able to make it and that this would be the last time that I talked to her. I told WW that she had called and what I told her, the next day she started calling OM again because that woman called me. She told me that she was in love with him and wanted to explore a life with him, I was once again heartbroken. I had been giving her chance after chance to stop seeing OM and work on the M, and here she was again asking for a D. We went online and filled out the paperwork for our divorce, she talked me into waiting to file until she had the chance to get her insurance started and in effect. She was seeing OM about 4 nights a week and talking to him 4 or 5 times a day. Therefore, I called the woman that I had met and asked her if she was still interested in getting to know each other. We talked for a few weeks and decided to meet again.

Upon returning from the second date, my wife seemed to be OK with everything, well the next day she went off the deep end again. She started crying a d sobbing and telling me how much she loved me and that I was the only man for her, this is the third time that she has done this. It makes me crazy, so I called her on it and asked why every time I come home from a date you have to pull this crap. She got mad and said that she could not believe what I was doing to her. I could not believe my ears, she has been involved in an affair for two years and I go on three dates and all of the sudden, it’s my fault.

I guess I am looking for some thoughts on this, is it possible that she really means what she says, or is she just playing me for a fool. I get so confused, I still have feelings for her and that is what makes it so difficult. However, I have started having feelings for this other woman that I have met. I would have never even gone to meet her if I thought my wife wanted to save the marriage. I have held on for 18 months and do not feel there is anything left to hang on to. She has done this repeatedly the last two years, but I am afraid that if I leave, I will hurt her.

Please give me some of you thoughts on this I need some help.

Keystone

Hi Key,

Welcome to MB. As you can see no matter what you do, the WS stays confused. You are certainly one patient man who is getting frustrated. You feel you are getting mixed messages from the WS? You will. As long as she continues to be a WS, you will get mixed messages. The danger now is your sitch with the OW. Yea, you had your WS' permission but you realize that doesn't make sense. So don't hurt the OW with another date. Even if it is platonic, the feelings can start and that's where the hurt begins.

As for what t/d, realize the Ws will continue to yank your change so consider the following:

1. Read: The concepts section above. His needs/Her needs & Surviving an afffair (both by Dr Harley). Learn about plans A & B. Implement as needed.

2. Secure your finances

3. Create your own personal support group (family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, pets, hobbies, MC/IC, doctor, MB etc.) You don't have to tell all to each, but ask for their support, that they respect your decsion, hear them out (even if you don't like what they have to say) and give info as needed.

4. Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience.

5. Identfy your personal and marriage boundaries and implement them. You have already given her enough chances.

6. Learn to reverse babble. This is a technique that may seem odd but you are dealing with an odd character. The WS is NOT your real W so the actions of the WS will be to put guilt and blame on you. It will also be to get you to do her drity work and enable her A. The A is a selfish virus designed to destroy the BS, family and all who love your W.

Reverse babble make take practice and sounds a bit sarcastic at times but it bascially reiterates the babble back to the WS often using their own words, or simply giving short responses and NOT engaging in logical discussions with them. What you want is to keep the WS off balanced (since they already are) but not focused on attacking you and your family.

Examples:

WS: You don't love me.

BS: You are right, I don't love the WS in this house.

*******************

WS: I need to move out and find myself.

BS: U R lost? Let's call the police. Better yet, let's call Jennifer C @ MB.

WS: Who's Jennifer? Your girlfriend?

BS: U could say that, let's go talk to her. She's a friend of the family.

******************

WS: I love you too much you go get a divorce.

BS: After you.

*******************

Ws: Don't you love me?

BS: Not as a WS.

The point here is not to show fear or allow yourself to be manipulated. This will infuriate the WS and as you can see from your own sitch, no matther what you do, she wants the opposite.

Learn how to deal with the WS and not let her yank your chain anymore.

take care,
L.

KS-I'm sorry that you find the need to be here. Welcome to MBers! It sounds to me that your WW is a fence sitter. She wants her cake and to eat it to. What you ar doing is not going to save your M either.

Do you want to save your M? Have you read all of the articles here? Are you willing to give up all that time that you and your WW have been Med?

How is your M going to work if you both are doing the same thing?

I'm hoping that a vet MBer will help you soon! You have a lot of thinking to do! Are you willing to do the work needed to end the As, and save your M?

First off, if you want to save your marriage why in the world are YOU going on dates?

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Think about it- you want to save your marriage so you get a girlfriend.

If you do not want to save your marriage, then you should move out, file for divorce and THEN start dating.

If you want to save your marraige, you'll need to send a no contact letter to your OW and stand by it.

Have you read Plan A and Plan B?

Read surviving an affair.

Plan A is doing your best to attract her back to you and the marraige. Do you really think making her jealous by dating someone else, is going to do that?

Read everything on the site. Keep posting and asking questions.

Do you realize you are now in an affair yourself?

moveforward,



I disagree with your statement. I know conventional wisdom here at MB is for no dating while you are trying to save a marriage. However, if you look at a LOT of posts from BS's that followed in the same path, especially after their WS asked, no begged them to get on with their life, IT WORKS.

If you want to turn your WS around, I have found here on MB that nothing appears to work better than the even mentioning of the BS replacing the WS. Dating doesn't imply doggie sex but can show the WS that the BS will survive the A. Dating can be frought with danger but if it is done well it often brings responses from an awol WS.

Cymanca,
did you NOT read where he has feeling for this OW?

This is not a 180 that folks do. He has feelings for her.

He is still living with his wife.

I think this is a HUGE difference from a 180. He was not trying to save his marriage by going out- he was going out on dates.

Move,

Sorry but I was replying to what you wrote , not his situation.

I agree with Cymanca.......his WW is being given too much credit, like she is the victim. This guy has constantly tried to repair the marriage.....his WW only sees his value when she sees that someone else does. Not all situations are the same. In this one, I feel ol dude is justified in trying to move on.......on another note, he does need to file though.

What I wrote was in response to what he said- that he had feelings for the OW.

Keystone - it's not clear to me what you want. Do you want to save your marriage? Do you want your wife?

You seem to be waiting for her to make a decision one way or the other...and you'll go along with it. What do you want?

Dating while still married may be temporarily effective in awakening jealousy in the WS, but it is unfair to the dating partner, and can only complicate a situation that is already a mess. What exactly are you and your wife teaching your children about how to manage problems in a marriage?


TA

Whatever feelings he had were at this point shallow enough to tell the OW no more. At least the 1st time. All the more critical to end it again and go work on himself 1st.

What I see is him doing whatever the WS tells him t/d as a way to placate her.....which has backfired on both of them. But it has also confused the WS....which is a good thing.

Back to basics here...no more side trips. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

I realize this is a slippery slope, but I have been trying for two years to get her back, I have used some of the principles here on MB. I have been coming to this site for the last two years, made a couple post, but mostly read other post and tried to keep my sanity. I am at a point that I do not know if I still want to try to save the marriage any longer. She would return to me and after a few weeks of feeling like we were in recovery, she would turn around and go to OM again. I called the OM wife told her about the affair, brought the affair into the light of day, his wife divorced him and than it made it easier for them to be together. The advice is to expose and it will stop the affair. It did not work that way for me. This guy has been married 5 times and he just keeps coming he will not give up, I thought if I stayed in the picture long enough he would get tired of chasing her and I would have a chance to get her back, but she keeps falling back to him. I really want to know if anybody thinks that is she being truthful this time. I have been thru this so many times that I feel like a fool for staying.

She has moved out stayed at her daughters and I would not contact her, used the NC rule, she came crawling back and in a few weeks she was back at it. I would use plan A than I would use plan B, she would come back start all over and than I would start using the plans again. I should have divorced her a long time ago, I could never get myself to finish Plan B.

To answer the question as to why I am going on dates, I am tired of setting at home waiting for her to get home from her dates. I am lonely and tired; I have given all that I can give. I know what I am doing is not the right thing to do, but how long can a person be used as a doormat before they get fed up with it.

Keystone

Key,

U have used some of the principles here but not all. Try giving Jennifer a call before you call it quits. Let her help you get a plan you won't regret.

Take care,
L.

I feel for you......it really seems like you have given her time thats for sure. Everyone has twisted it to make it seem like you dont know what you want. I know what you are going thru....its clear as day. I would say she has been given enough rope.....you should just go ahead and make something of your life. I can see this thing going on like this for a long, long time. I say file, and dont waste another 2yrs on this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I guess Orchid......*shrugs*

Keynote - Plan A/B is not, in my estimation, meant to be used again and again. If your Plan B works, your WS returns to a BS who has firm boundaries in place, and who has consequences prepared if those boundaries are violated again. There's no need for another Plan B - because the consequence of breaking the first one is...Plan D.

In allowing your wife to get anxious, return, get bored, go back to OM, get anxious....etc.....you've trained her to know that there are no consequences to her behaviour. She can cake-eat as much as she likes.

The answer to your question 'how long can a person be used as a doormat before they get fed up with it' is this.....no-one can be used as a doormat at all unless they allow themselves to be so used.

What are your boundaries? What would she need to do to convince you that she has ended the A for good? What would it take for you to feel secure? What would she have to do convince you that she understands why she broke her vows, and that she wouldn't do it again? It's up to her to convince you that she's worth risking your future on. It's up to you to be prepared to take the necessary action if she doesn't convince you.

You want your wife to be with you and for her to be faithful. Your wife wants to have both you and the OM. Which of you is getting what they want? What possible reason does your wife have to change what she's doing?

You can't have what you want just by waiting for her to see the light.

You've given it two years. She has not made up her mind. What is your plan?

What is your fear?

TA

Why? I think it is important to get all POVs. Please share.

Thanks everyone for your comments, some one asked what I felt I was teaching my children about solving problems in marriage. I have no biological children with my wife, she had 3 children from a previous marriage, that ended with her husband having and affair and leaving her.

For the last 17 years I have raised those three kids like they were my own, I worked my butt off to put them thru collage and make sure they had the necessary skills to succeed in life. They have supported me 100% this entire time, the only question that they have asked is why I have stayed so long and allowed myself to be hurt over and over. They have all told me that I should have bailed a long time ago. I have stayed because I loved my wife with everything that I am, but I am starting to realize that you can not sustain a marriage with only one doing all of the work.

I would like to thank Startinover for coming to my defense. I know that I was not perfect and took my wife for granted, but how can you ever justify cheating on your spouse. There is no excuse that I can think of to justify that kind of behavior. If you are not getting your needs met why not tell your spouse and seek help before stepping outside the marriage.

To this day she is still unable or not willing to tell my why she cheated, she went to counseling and all that did was waste my money. My consular always asked me why I did not feel good enough about myself to leave, I still do not have an answer for her.

I am beginning to think that anybody that stays with a cheating spouse is giving up a big part of who they are to except the failure of the cheating spouse.


Keystone

U c/b correct or not. Until a WS sheds her WS skin and comes back to the land of the sane, you will never know. The issue is where will you be when she comes back? Waiting or moved on? What is best for you? That depends on your personal improvements, time and her POV when u r ready to move on.

While in transit, many a BS comes to all kinds of conclusions. During the plan A process, the BS learns about themself, identifies personal and M boundaries, then upon completion of that info and self-improvements....keeps moving forward. If the WS is still a WS, it could end in D. If not, and the BS is willing then recovery could start. Either way, it is not something you can predict now.

Pray for a clear mind, a calm heart and lots of patience. Cleansing breahtes (but not hyperventilating) helps too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


L.

Cymanca,

How can you recommend using another huiman being as a bargaining chip to make a WS jealous??? What about the poor participant in the sham date?