Hiya R,

I haven't had a chance to read through your thread just yet, so I'm not familiar with your sitch...and I didn't want to interrupt what was going on there so...

Detatchment:

Simply put, is a way of protecting our own well being from the impact of someone else's behavior.

When you sense that a situation is dangerous to your physical, mental, or spiritual well-being, you can put extra distance between yourself and the situation.

Sometimes this means that you don't get too emotionally involved in a problem, sometimes you may physically leave the room or end a conversation. And sometimes you may try to put spiritual space between yourself and another person's behavior.

This doesn't mean you stop loving the person, only that you acknowledge the risks to your own well-being and make choices to take care of yourself.

For those of us that tend to be co-dependant, the urge to take on someone else's stuff and try to fix it can be a problem. By using detatchment we show ourselves and others respect.

We're respecting ourselves because we're not taking on something we have no business with or energy for.

We're respecting others by allowing them to manage their own affairs and LEARN from the experience.

Does that make more sense?

Banyak- Thank you for the info! I was reading about it this morning, in regards to handling control (manipulation).

You did a great job of getting the point across.
I think I did this last night w/ H, who's PA! I did a drive-by, just O&H statement about my feelings! He got defensive, sarcastic, and I saw a little anger in there. I quickly said that it wasn't open for discussion. He got really mad, asked if I was telling him to Shut up! Wouldn't let me finish my statement, and said Good Night!

I'm glad that it worked out that way! I don't see how

Glad it was helpful!

I don't know much about PA...only the basics really, but it sounds to me like you've got quite a challenge on your hands.

With the detatchment though...the idea is to keep it diplomatic.

It's meant to diffuse a nasty situation before it has a chance to start. In the example you posted above instead of saying the subject wasn't open to discussion (which may have made him feel defensive), it might have helped to let him know he was entitled to his feelings just as you were entitled to yours.

The idea is not to take responsibility for his feelings.

The same outcome is accomplished, but hopefully without all the negative stuff in the mix.

I know...a bit confusing, but with practice it starts to make more sense.

Take care,
B.

See that's the kind of stuff I need to hear...all to often I know it's a matter of choose in words that things go array.

Do you think we could come up with a course of study for such a thing? LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Diplomatic...okay!

I was wondering how to be detacted and do PLan A. Of course, my LB is extremely low right now so I'm finding it difficult to wanting to withdraw and keep in mind that I can't. It's a struggle for me right now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I would appreciate any thoughts you have on the subject, I especially need a "WORD" coach, hahahaha! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Here is what I have done.

Now there is a difference between detachment and withdrawl.

What I have done is become an observer not an active participant.

I almost pretend that I am watching my own life from the outside and I am not a participant only an observer.

Like the two people are not me and the FWW. They are two strangers that I have no emotional connection to.

I still participate but with that outside looking in mentality. This helps me protect myself.

By doing this my FWW doesn't have an adversary she has a observer. HMMMM.

For me the next step is making sure the observed behavior, if good is sustainable on the FWW's part.

Now before when I saw a step I would jump right back in. I have realized that in order to keep moving forward she has to be able to sustain that behavior. The reason being is there are many problems. You have to resolve those issues not in the short term but in the long term.

What I have done is accepted a whole bunch of slips and held on to when she didn't slip up as proof things had change.

Stupid man I am. LOL.

Right now I have started to witness a few baby steps. I will not beleive they are sustainable until she does sustain this pattern of behavior.

Banyak suggested before testing the water to make sure you don't completely withdraw.

So this morning I had a chance to dip my toe in the water. It wasn't bad but I am not just jumping in.

See the water temp might be great but if I dive right in there might be a rock right under the surface.

Okay, that makes sense! It seems like everytime I look at him now, I see PA, I don't see my DH! The man I thought I fell in love with! this is the second day of I guess shock! The clarity is unbelievable!

The only thing differnet from lunch Wed. is my emotions are not in the situation!

Detatchment 101...sounds like a study course to me!

From my perspective, detatchment and plan A can go hand in hand...after all, they're both about protecting ourselves and the love we feel for someone else right? (yes, I know...there's more to it than that, but we can only tackle one thing at a time right?)

So, you find yourself in a conversation with H, and he says 'xyz'. You can reply with: 'Hmmm, that IS interesting...and how are you feeling about that?"

'I feel xyz'
'I can understand how you might feel that way, so what are you going to do with xyz?'
'I'm going to do this...'
'Wow...that's really something. I hope xyz works out for you.'

It's a bit of a sketchy outline, but if you can use it as a guide you meet a few EN's by listening, showing empathy, being supportive, and offering encouragement.

What you don't do is make any judgements, engage in any emotional reactions, or try to fix a darn thing. Thus you don't take ownership of his 'stuff' but still allow him to express himself. Your feelings are protected, and he gets to take responsibility for his actions and even possibly learn from the results.

No LB's in that scenario...and maybe even a need or two of yours met simply by having a pleasant conversation where he feels comfortable expressing himself to you.

It may not be a milestone, but it's a good start to some open, honest communication. The rest will follow...just hang in there with that plan A.

Like HL says...practice being a good observer, and make note of the things you can improve on next time.

The idea is to progress one day at a time, not strive for perfection right out of the gates.

Take care!

B.

Quick lesson in detachment.

No SF for a few days. She hasn't felt well.

Yesterday FWW calls up and says for sure SF tonight. I didn't ask.

No SF last night she fell asleep.

I go to sleep because I didn't really expect SF. Wake up feel good.

Played some Sudoku and poker on line.

I know it sounds trivial. This has happened I don't know how many times. Can't even count.

So usually I perk up my needs are going to be filled. Then I feel good my FWW wants to fill them. She told me she did. Then no needs filled. Just an empty sentence. Dissapointment. Heck felt rejected in the past. Now I feel like I got what I expected so bad feelings at all.

Ok I am a little how do you say FRUSTRATED. But better then being frustrated and hurt.

Usually it would bother me but nope.

I don't really expect to have my EN's met right now so no hurt or dissapointment.

She appologized this morning for no SF. I said "no biggie".

Usually I would make a comment but not today. Not anyday until my comments will really be taken to heart. Not a DJ either just a simple statement about my dissapointment.

I believe loving detachment wouldn't be replying to her ownership and apology with "no biggie"...but "Thank you."

IMO.

LA

Nice catch LA...What a great point!

LA I think I am past the point of loving detachment right now. If anything I am in ambivalent detachment.

I have to say at this point I am at my breaking point with her and her situational morals, and standards.

I would say that I could probably do better sometimes but trying to be a saint at all times "hoping" somebody will see something gets a wee bit tiring.

I can honestly say that after our latest conversation I can see that being attached to her emotionally has damaged our relationship.

I now have gone to an extreme as far as my expectations. I am past not expecting anything, I expect the worst in most situations. That seems to be what I get.

Last night being no different. I still need to process exactly what happened but my FWW's situational moral's and standards are killing our M.

You see it is hard to discuss something with someone that can't even be honest with themselves when it comes to things that hurt others.

If my FWW does something wrong whatever it is big or small and I want to talk to her about the situations. Her first response is I am overreacting and it shouldn't bother me.

Now I have discussed with her at length and so has the MC that she has no right to tell me how I SHOULD feel.

However it is especially frustrating when the FWW has gotten upset about the same thing I am now upset about and she tells me I am overreacting. Take into account she does not have progressive enforcements that start at "please don't do that again." On a scale of 1 - 10 on enforcement she starts around a 5-7 in her enforcement on the first infraction. For me if I start at a 3 I am being mean.

She denies her feelings in order to minimize mine. I can't say I know exactly what she would do in every situation. However based on our past together I can make a pretty good guess. The way she tells me she would react is fairly unbelievable. See she would act the most perfect way in every situation.

Something big she did would not bother her but a little tiny thing does bother her.

So thanking my FWW for not filling my needs after promising to do so is really not anything I plan on doing.

No biggie just about sums it up. It has been happening for so long now it really isn't a biggie. It is expected.

HL-I'm really seeing my N's behavior in your wife. Good thing, I don't care anymore! LOL

I'm hearing you're to the point! I was thinking that my N's going to have to hit rock bottom too before she realizes what she does no people! It's such a shame!

HL,

I understand that you are emotionally exhausted, hurting, frustrated and angry. I am not telling you to be a saint.

"I would say that I could probably do better sometimes but trying to be a saint at all times "hoping" somebody will see something gets a wee bit tiring."

By choosing the martyr/saint perspective, you will injure yourself greatly...I was pointing out a respectful answer...one that comes from your standard to live respectfully, not an answer to summarize your feelings without stating them clearly. I am looking out for your stuff...no self-betrayal to your respect or your honesty.

Respect is acknowledging what is...

Takes out the situational standard and involves the one you choose for your life, at all times, for you.

Not her.

LA

Rinderella,

Well I really don't believe under the current circumstances my FWW will hit rock bottom as long as I stay around.

Actually even if I am not around I don't think she will hit rock bottom.

I have said many times peoples perception is thier reality. My FWW's reality seems to be a little skewed. She would not even say that she lied to me for this time. Somewhere there is a deliniation about being dishonest about something really big and that not being dishonest. I really haven't figured it out. So I say "you lied to me for three years to avoid the consequences of your actions" I didn't lie to you for three years about everything. But you lied to me for three years. No I didn't, not about everything. You cannot say I am dishonest because I wasn't. I was honest about everything else.

Well detachment helped though. I tried to remain calm and not let what she said effect me. She did a lot of DJing and did some LBing.

Oh well I did cave and dropped one at the end. Don't know what the next step is yet. Trying to figure this thing out.

HL-Keep your head up! You sound very tired, get your focus back!

Stand still! Breathe, I know you like that! LOL