I agree as well. Someone coming here in pain because the WS has turned BS may not be in a situation in which they are able to do this... but I think this has to be one of the consequences of her/his affair marriage. They have to see how their presence can hurt others and deal appropriately if they expect any help at all.

Shaden

Hi Pep,
dunno about the caffeine (are you killing the coodies with that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)
But I'm with you..
Also on the fact that anyone who realises the pain they have caused others..
Will do everything in their power to make that right..
and no longer hide in fog.
But it takes a big person to do that.
I have my own view on how someone may get there..
Has to do with spiritual growth.
But it's rather different than anything that has been posted here.
So I think I'll start a separate thread for that, if anyone is interested.
Probably another one of my whacky posts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Seeing some drama unfold (again) on the thread about JJ makes me wanna bump this up to show what can be done when people thoughtfully decide whom to help... and how to do it...

Hi NBII

cute shoes!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

oh... what does it mean... WHAT DOES IT MEAN? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

No sheet. "Cute shoes" WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???

"cute shoes" is just a silly complimentary phrase ... just between girls
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I usually say "nice boots"

Oh. LOL LOL LOL... girl talk, eh? I'll keep that in mind...

New hair style? (Would that qualify?)

not as good as "You look too thin"

Dang. Well, I tried.

That *is* a good one...

cute kitty NBII

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I like cats too !

She's spoiled rotten.

Yours?

horrible rotten

L:

well that is a ood question. The honest answer is that I would hope that I would do the same thing again, if given a choice. The reality of my situation is that I do not feel I had a choice in what happened. It was pure instinct. Someone is bleeding internally, and hypotensive and crashing......you better locate that source of bleeding quickly. In reality, I don't know if I even contemplated what was going on untill I had him in the OR, and had already sewn up the laceration, and was running his bowel to check for any other penetrating wounds. Word travels very quickly in a hospital. By the time I has broken scrub on that case, a senior colleague who was NOT on call or even supposed to be working was in to offer support. That was one horrible experience after the surge of adrenaline was over and the stark reality of what happened hit me.

The fact is, I work tirelessly for my patients....TO A PERSONAL FAULT. I am defintely a workaholic, and will almost never turn down a difficult case ( a fact that has my mortality statistics HIGHER than most surgeons in my hospital-- NOT A GOOD THING, but a reality). I don't necessarily think that makes me a better man than most, as there is certainly some sort of emotional "need" that I garner from this that is NOT 100% altruistic....I do wish it all was though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I have not allowed myself to get "that" from someone else.....and perhaps I never will....but I will probably die trying.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In the end, I would like to think I "would" do the same thing again.....one never knows though.

Lem

Pep wrote:

"It might be reasonable to extrapolate

that it is JJ's responsibility

to make others who have been victims of an affair marriage

feel comfortable around her ...


and NOT

visa-versa !!!



Thoughts?"

As was said, you did nail it here! Even for those of us whose FWSs did dump the OPs pretty quickly and want to recover our Ms, the FWS still seems to have a very difficult time facing the pain they caused and their own shame. There unsavory actions that caused the pain are just too painful for them. So it can take months to work through this A crappolla. However, when the FWS gets it right, when the FWS can sit with our pain and show us sincere sorrow and compassion, it is very healing.

Second thing is most of us wouldn't be friends with someone who betrayed us in half the way our Ss did. Yet here we are, trying to work through this mess. We do it for many reasons as bizarre as the whole thing is. It is a unique situation.

So back to what you said. I guess it would make me personally feel a bit more compassionate to someone like JJ if I knew, from her own words, that she really gets the damage done. I would say that most of us didn't have our OPs come to us crying and begging for our forgiveness. I wouldn't expect this from a former WS/OP/Med to the A partner posting here. Yet a sincere apology and acknowledgement of the difficulty caused to many here by their posting might at least help. REALLY do that before asking for any MB advice to save the M. Maybe JJ did this. I'm just talking in general for if/when this comes up again.

I liked your post CV, just to let you know.

I was listening to an Anthony Robbins tape last night, one of a series of personal power tape and he had some interesting things to say about human needs.

He theorized that there are six needs and the first four will be met one way or another, using positive or negative vehicles...

however unless the last two are met (by meeting the first four in positive ways) we will not be happy or have a sense of satisfaction in our lives.

The first four are:

certainty (we cannot function without a sense of certainty that we will be okay, that we will survive)

uncertainty (we are designed that we must have a certain level of uncertainty or we will become bored, IE challenge, excitement)

a feeling of significance (however that looks to us)

a feeling of connectedness to others

and the last two:

we must grow (if we are not growing, we are dying)

we must contribute (if something does not contribute it is eliminated)

A lot of people meet the last two needs on this board, by learning and by contributing. They may even meet some of the first four.

Not sure how this ties in but found this particular tape of his interesting while thinking about what keeps some here helping others long after their own world has turned back around.

Thanks Weaver for your post. Lots to be learned!