Been dating a WONDERFUL woman since March. We met on eharmony and hit it off immediately. She is a sweetheart, so darn pretty and just so incredibly down to earth!

She is a BS and her X has very little influence in her young daughters lives. She is a great mom, spends lots of time with her girls and takes wonderful care of them.

Her girls are very cute and very loving. However, they lack some discipline even though she tries to enforce it. (I know it is hard as a single parent). For example, both girls (5 and 7) talk back terribly to her. She will tell them not to, give them a time out, but they just don't listen. At meal time, they are under the table, running around the dining room, etc. (drives me NUTS!). They are also extremely loud and are always screaming!

OK, I am a dad, and I know how kids are. They will try getting away with anything you let them get away with. My question is, when they are at my place, can I "tactfully" enforce my rules at my home? When we sit down to eat, no horse-play. Also, NO screaming period! Should I help my girlfriend enforce her rules when they don't listen to her?

I wonder if I should discuss this with my girlfriend or just show her what I expect of my guests when they are at my home? Not that I am going to scream at her girls or anything... just want them to know the rules.

I welcome lots of input on this one!

If I were in your shoes I'd do this: Discuss with your GF how you like your children to behave in your house. Let her know when their friends come over you let them know you expect the same kind of behavior from them. Tell her you'd like to do this with her children for a number of reasons.

1. you don't want your children to see a double standard where they are expected to control themselves while other kids can have free reign.

2. you don't enjoy their company as much when the girls are under the table & generally running around.

3. if the kids are more trust worthy you'll have a better time with your GF.

I have all boys & when they have friends over things can get kind of...active. If there's a new friend in the house I tell them I expect them to be nice to the brothers as they all play together. If a kid does something I absolutely don't let my kids do, ie stand on the furniture, be unkind to the brothers, I don't hesitate to say we don't do that here & you'll have to stop. I don't mince words, I just tell them stop. When they were younger I did have to tell a kid I'd send him home if there was one more incident. He stopped but when his mom came to pick him up I made sure I told her in front of the boy what he did that I didn't like.

In her house? No. Don't try to discipline her kids in their space it will only cause hard feelings. What you can do is limit the time you spend there & tell your GF why. Gotta be brave & find the right words for that one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Congrats on finding someone you really like. Good luck!

Hmm. I was going to post, but Nams beat me to it. She said everything I was going to say.

The only issue is if GF's kids are truly "spirited" in the sense that they cannot sit still and are candidates for ADHD meds. In that case, you need to come up with alternative strategies that put the children in a position to obey your rules.

For example, when they come for dinner, it is served in two courses, and in between the courses, the girls get to jump up clear the table, do five laps around the house, and then, sit back down.

We occassionally have "princess" nights at our table. Everyone must behave like a modern-day princess. Backs straight, polite conversation, please and thank you, and no chewing with your mouth open. Along the way, we get to be as silly as we like.

We also have "city manners" which my sister invented. These are our restraunt and function manners. Since my children love eating in nice restaurants, city manners works for them. We started that about 4 years ago, when the little one was 3.

nams,

Great advice. I think I will just make it clear to her children when they act up, that I have clear rules for my children and my children's friends and that it applies to them also. I won't try enforcing rules at GF's house though - that would come across as very controlling on my part.

It is true that I don't enjoy GF's company near as much when her kids are acting up (actually, drives me bonkers). However, if we get them to wind down, then it is very pleasant to have them all around.

What is sweet though, GF tells me her children love me and talk about me ALL the time!

BHINWI~~~

You sound like your life has picked up quite a bit and you are doing rather well.
Very happy for you!

I must say, I couldn't handle what you're describing too well either.
I like nams #1. I think that's your best bet.

I also see where you're going to have to handle this very gingerly. As much as gf tries to enforce or says what she expects, it may come across quite differently when you are enforcing it.

5&7 under the table, talking back??? wow!
I hope you're able to reach a middle ground. You appear very happy!

Karona

One person's "talking back" is another's freedom of speech. These are little kids. If you can't stand their energy level now, you will hate it if you have to live with it. When they are 15 and 17, they will probably still be going a mile a minute - they won't be crawling under the table anymore, but they may talk a blue streak.

They sound perfectly normal to me. I used to babysit for a couple of little boys - the mother complained about the younger one's energy level and risk taking, but I thought he was adorable. He was adventurous and always ready to try new things. His brother, on the other hand, was scared of everything and was very inactive - he drove me nuts.

You are not going to change these kids' personalities. I suspect it has nothing to do with "discipline." My oldest daughter was full of energy when she started kindergarten, and the discipline there managed to break her spirit, so by third grade her teacher said she wished she'd misbehave once in awhile so she would know she was there. Luckily her spirit and energy remained evident at home, and have enabled her to create many opportunities for herself as an adult (though the pictures of her hanging out of a helicopter scared the bejeebers out of me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ).

If I were the mother, I would be very annoyed if you tried to discipline them, no matter whose home they were in. Unless they are inflicting property damage or endangering someone's safety, you should not even attempt to intervene.

Nellie, then you would be annoyed with me. When I make a meal, I don't expect my guests to crawling under the table spilling food everywhere. I don't expect them to scream at the top of their lungs and jump up and down on furniture.

My 9 year old son has more energy then any child I know. He is very polite and well behaved and it is because of rules.

Most importantly, I won't set a double standard that my children will notice. Tell me, what message does it send to my children if I have looser set of rules for GF's children then mine????

Sheesh... no offense but I totally disagree with your response. I mean, where is the structure for children if screaming at your parents is "freedom of speech"???? Especially at 5 and 7 years old?

hey bro....

read my sitch about "boundries and EX's" in GQII

it covers the GF making a comment to my daughter and all H*ll broke loose......

maybe it might be wise to vent to parent and you remain neutral when dealing with GF's kids...

just a thought...

*Everything* I have ever read about boyfriends, SOs, stepfathers, etc. says that you do not discipline them because you have no real authority to see that discipline through to its conclusion -- what are you going to do if they don't listen to you? Hit them? Ground them?

If my kids have a friend over who misbehaves, I tell them not to do XYZ. If they continue, I call the mother to pick them up. Obviously you can't do that -- "girlfriend, you and the kids need to go home now" -- so if I were you I would learn to detach and fast, or seriously think about the relationship if you have hugely different parenting styles. If I had a friend who allowed her children to destroy my house while she was sitting right there, I wouldn't attempt to discipline the kids, I would just end the friendship b/c trying to make her kids behave the way I want doesn't work and causes resentment.

Every family therapist on the block will say that parenting differences in blended families cause *huge* problems. (And it probably doesn't help that you think your child is soooo much more well-behaved because you're such a good parent -- I'll take a nickel for every time I've heard that...)

Having rules & expectaions for others visiting your home is reasonable, children or not.

Expectations & breaking a child's spirit are two very different things. How does a child learn boundaries, differences in others views, if not through interaction with those expectations.

Drives me crazy when I see a "high spirited" child running crazy & the parent stands by & says "oh , he's just being himself". May fly at home but in the rest of life it's unlikely he'll get such free reign. As it should be. We all try to find ways to get to the places we fit best in this world. It's a learning process of how things work & how we fit in.

Maybe so, but it's not the poster's job to give his girlfriend's children the tools they need for life or whatever.

There is really no way for someone to intimate that "gee, I think you're a lousy disciplinarian, your children act like ill-behaved brats at times, and it's really bugging me" and have it go over well. HE may think that he's doing them a wonderful favor by showing them rules and expectations, but the mother and her kids won't see it that way. Women get *very* prickly about perceived criticism of their kids and their parenting.

Maybe it would be okay if she specifically asks him to take over a disciplinarian role -- and even that is dicey -- but otherwise, detach and evaluate whether her parenting is something he can live with.

I agree with Nams. I also agree that the parenting part is tough - and actual punishment/discipline should be done by the parent. BUT, there are expectations and rules in my house that my kids, my kids' friends and my friend's kids abide by. I simply say, we do not allow that here, or what not, typically works. Honestly, I've never had a problem, most of the time, the kids behave better for me than for their parents. And I tell my kids when they visit - different houses have different rules. You must respect that. I would expect that the adult of that household to both inform and enforce the rules.

But I think of it as two different issues - defining and expecting certain behaviours at your house and actually parenting.

Keeping communication open about the issue is best. Does she know it bugs you?

My 6 year old has trouble sitting still at dinner, too. I try to keep him very active until dinner. As long as he eats, I'm fine with it. Some gentle reminders to sit and eat usually take care of it. BUT, he sits well at restaurants for hour+. Also, at others' houses, he sits, eats, is quiet, uses manners, asks to be excused, etc. A little more laid back at home.

But it's not that simple in real life. How do you "enforce" the rules with someone else's kids?

Scenario: Kids jumping and screaming on couch.

Bob: "Kids, we don't jump and scream on the couch in my house."
Girlfriend: "Kids, listen to Bob. No jumping and screaming on the couch."
Kids continue to jump and scream on couch.
Girlfriend puts kids in time-out. They don't listen and continue to jump and scream on couch

The couple has several options 1) girlfriend leaves with the kids because she cannot make them abide by the house rules; 2) Bob asks girlfriend to leave with the kids because she cannot make them abide by the house rules; 3) Bob puts kids in time-out, which violates the no-discipline rule and brings us back to square one if they don't listen to HIM either; 4) Bob decides that the pleasure of their company is worth the violation of the house rules (and secretly seethes with resentment).

Bob can make all the house rules he wants. He can decide that everyone who enters his home must cluck like a chicken, for all I care. But it's up to the *girlfriend* to make her children abide by those rules or leave if she can't or won't do it, or it's up to Bob to either kick them out or decide that clucking like a chicken isn't so important to him after all.

True enough. And I think implied in my "we do not do that here" is the stance that you will not be here if you continue. But like I said, I've found they tend to mind me, even if they are hellions at home. I've only had to threaten once or twice with "kids who do not follow the rules sit alone in the boring computer room." ?? I'm not a super strict meanie or anything. But also, I tend not to have unrealistic expectations. Expect perfection - No. Expect them to be little adults - No. Use inside voices, to sit during dinner, to put away things they play with - Yes.

And, there are lots of options to work with, too - so its not just a hard line DO THIS OR ELSE -

so to "we don't jump and scream on the couch" you can add "you have lots of energy, see how many times you can run around the house in 5 minutes, ready, set, go..."

Lots of options - send them outside for a bit to burn off energy, the promise of ice cream after dinner for well-behaved children, some kid activities that interest them rather than "hanging with the boring adults." Prior planning can work wonders

Oh, I agree with your approach too. But honestly, people say the reason second marriages fail so often is kids and personality conflicts over exactly this sort of thing -- different parenting styles, discipline clashes, her kids messing up "his" house, etc.

If Bob and his girlfriend ever get married, they're going to have to move into a new neutral house (which means he'll have to give up the beautifully restored showpiece) and have new house rules that will require them *both* to adjust their parenting styles. It's tough.

When we were dating, hubby and his daughter would come over quite a bit. I can think of one time where I had to say, "I do not allow my children to talk to me like that in this house and I will not allow you to talk to your dad like that in this house. You can stop now or you can leave." Fortunately that ended the episode.

Now that it's "our" house and she's a teen, there are still moments that I have the burning itch to intervene, but I let her dad be the disciplinarian of her and I take care of my own. He tends to get frustrated with mine and I try to remind him that they are younger and less mature, and to remember when she was that age; she didn't have the exact same issues, but different ones with equal frustration on my end.

Everyone, I have read the dialouge here with great interest. I think I need to talk to my GF and discuss what role she wants me to play with her children and her role with mine.

Your perspectives have enlightened me. Thank you.

Well.. GF brought up my role in discipline last night. She told me if I ever felt they get out of line to go ahead and get after them. Not that she doesn't, she really does try. But what I see is a single mom, taking care of 2 children, working full time, maintaining a home all with an X that spends little time with his children. I see that sometimes she is just worn out...

Anyway I suggested that when she gets after them, I would be more than happy to reiterate what Mom just said and that I agree with their Mom. She thought it was a wonderful idea.

Don't get me wrong... they are good kids. I think that GF could just use some support setting boundarys and in enforcing rules.

ill say this....and this is based on MY personal experience....

STAY NEUTRAL...when it comes to discipline and setting boundries with GF kids....."run for the hills"..

you will put GF in the middle...YOU will be BAD guy....this will destroy...if not destroy, create un told stress on your relationship....

GF needs to be the "bad guy"....everytime discipline is needed....

it will be accepted from mom....but NEVER from an outsider....and like it or not...thats what we are when we get involved with women with kids....

STAY NEUTRAL....if you get upset or need to address a problem....let the parent handle it....

thats what they get paid for!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ive seen this sitch cause problems in my own relationship as well as another friends that ultimatley ended in D after 3 years due to kids issues....

just be careful.

Question here:
In most of these cases, things occur when everyone is together.
Is it ever appropriate to spend time alone with GF's or BF's kids? Like going to a movie or lunch to get to know them better? It sounds easier to do with older kids, but may be easier with younger kids who have fewer expectations and just want to have fun.
I know my kids act better when I'm not around, as when they are out with friends or aunts. Does anyone else's?

It's just a thought.