I really don't know if he's in some kind of fog and still trying to justify his actions to easy his guilt feelings.

H had several A's, started with a ONS 2-1/2 years ago followed by EA's, PA's and ONS's with at least 4 OW's I know of, until d-day last Jan.
Prior was a good H and proud father to our two girls.

We've been in and out of Recovey/ Limbo, etc.

Our last big talk was a few weeks ago:

First he said that reading MB is very depressive.
He can't stand the guilt of the pain he caused me and the harm to the family.
He never really felt it or had any idea of how much a BS suffers.
He realized, from the boards that in most cases recovery fails and it takes way too long.
He doesn't believe that I'll ever be able to forgive him because what he done was so bad.
And he can't see us happy in the future.
He fears I'll wont be able to forgive myself because I am all about values, beliefs and I never fail them.
Said he now can't barely face me or the girls without feeling all the guilt and he's having a hard time living with it.

Then he says...
We've never been that happy nor had a happy marriage, because our live together has always been about him, his stress and his problems.
That he love's me... but... we have grown apart, I am no longer the person he felt in love, who had time for her paintings and art projects.
He still doesn't know why he did it, but he questions himself as to if he really loved me how could he do such thing.
He did found a new world during that time, a new kind of life, he didn't knew existed.
He thinks he has never been a good father or husband and that I was just too nice to him.
I should have dedicated more time to myself. I have always placed him and the girls first and that I just never had the time or energy to myself. He feels like he has taken so much from me that he destroyed the real me and I am no longer the person he felt in love with.

He wont go for divorce because he's afraid it's a Huge mistake.
He wont go for divorce because he thinks I'll be the one who will suffer more. And he owns me to try recovery.

If we ever divorce he wont fight for the girls (he doesn't want them in parents fight).
The recovery might be the right thing to do... or try but has no hope in it. We should both become more independent, I should stop being his support, and hates now that it is still about him everyday - him being stressed, me being there for him.

I told him most of what he said sounds like him just justifying himself to run away from guilty... He said... maybe but didn't really agree with it.

All this he realized from reading the "depressive" MB boards.

I told him I loved him and that I do believe in recovery, if we both work for it, if that's what we both really want. But we need Radical Honesty restored.
I asked him if he really wants to spend the rest of his life with me and be faithful.
He said yes to be faithful, (he will divorce first if anything happens because he can't even imagine me going thru another betrayal) but he just can't see me trusting him again.

I asked him if it's the Divorce he wants then let's do it.
He said no, because it's not fair for me.



For me?
1. He's in fog and running from assuming his mistakes and face the consequences. I truly believe he can't face guilt at times.
2. He just realized what he did and the impact of it in our relationship and comparing the hard work of recovery to the "new kind of life" he found. (No responsabilities, no kids, do whatever he wants whenever he wants and have the single dating life back.)
Both are childish. Or fogged?

We haven't talked about it since...

I know I haven't been plan A ing, and we haven't really been in Recovery either.
So life is not really good at the moment. I am depressed (fighting it tho).
We're living the effects and damage of the after d-day. So, everything is pretty much messed up.



What is all this?
Is this what he really thinks or is it just fog talk?

Hello Lost Willow,
this would be a big red flag to me:
"He did found a new world during that time, a new kind of life, he didn't knew existed."

From what you posted I understand that he is really "dating around", not getting involved with just one person and that he enjoys (present tense) the kick of what.. the hunt? The catch?

My XWH was like that, I think. He was rather insecure and frustrated because he felt women would like talking to him, confiding in him, but wouldn't have sex with him (to put in bluntly). He "overcame" his insecurity by going to prostitutes, then by making a move at my BF. And it went on and on.. dating sites, interactive porn sites.. He took BF/OW to a sex club.. Tried to set up a threesome with OW and another GF of his.. Suggested a threesome with OW and ME (yuck)..

And yes, he also felt he had discovered a whole new life, where he no doubt felt good about himself as he was now finally getting what he had always phantasized about.

At the same time he says he loves me.. wants to spend his whole life with me...
Doesn't want to read at MB, doesn't want to go into counseling, thinks it takes waaay to long for me to "get over it" blahblah...

It seems there is such a thing as a Madonna/Who're complex.
I was the Madonna, the others were (disposable) who'res.
He felt guilty towards me, but couldn't stop doing what he did.. like an addiction.
He couldn't "transfer" what he did with the "who'res" unto the "Madonna" either..
Very conflicting !

My XWH didn't have any withdrawl from his A with my BF. In fact, he was sorta getting bored with her. But it took me too long to realise he was "in love" with his exciting new life style - and going behind my back doing "naughty" things in fact added to the kick.
Feeling guilty was part of the deal.
Hard circle to break without counseling.
Easier to say "I'm so sorry, I feel so bad, I'll never do it again."

Would your WH consider counseling?

LW,

He is babbling and doesn't even realize it. Let him know that what he is saying is confusing. Then ask him if it is confusing him as well.

If he says yes....tell him to go get some counseling. Let him now Steve H. @ MB can help him not be sooo confused, then maybe you can understand what he is saying.

If he says no..... excuse yourself and go figure out when you can implement plan B.

Maybe best to call Steve yourself 1st (if he says no). At the very least, Steve can give you a plan.

JMHO,
L.

Probably a bit of both I think.

It seems to me that he's just starting to realize and accept the damage thats been done...and the daunting task of entering 'true' recovery is intimidating for him.

Even though he finds the boards a 'depressing' place to be, I'd suggest encouraging him to keep reading/posting.

In all honesty, it hasn't been that long since d-day, and feeling a bit depressed at this point isn't unusual - for my H and I it was well over a year before that improved.

It will get better...and easier...over time.

Take care

Another thing..
and this might be hard, but it's important..
He might give you STD's.
My XWH didn't bother using a condom with OW.
So have yourself tested.
And be safe !