i posted this in GQII but wanted to see if anyone here has any advice or dealing with similiar sitch...

i dont start to many threads but i have a nagging problem, i think i know the answer but i am sincerley looking for some advice and similiar experiences...

i have been D'd going on 3 years...i am a BS and my X married the OP within 3 weeks of D...

i have 2 kids...a 16 yr old daughter and 12 yr old son...

ok...here goes.............

two weeks ago, myself, GF and both kids were at the river for a week with a bunch of people i work with...my dd went out of her way and really tried hard to have a MISERABLE time...affected everyone around her, some comments were made by some of the wives...that "she is so beatiful but very angry"...

i know she has gone through a tough time..but my GF has been dealing with the "teen" attitude for over a year and finally made a comment to to dd

"you are so beatiful, but one of the most negative teens i have ever been around, if you could take some of the outer beauty and put it on the inside, you would be a total package"

that....was the "shot heard 'round the world"!!!!

all H*ll has broken loose around me, and now GF is public enemy #1...

so...we get home from river...dd attitude and defiance and dis-respect continues....we discuss boundries, consequences and attituides..

she informs me that she "likes mom and OP better and wants to live with them full time and never see me again"...

i have had my fill...so i say OK...

take her home...drop off and also took away her cell phone, (which i pay for) and not paying for her auto insurance any longer...

i tried to explain that as a young adult, she has two choice...

she can be a young adult and act like a child...or...she can be a young adult and act like an adult...but...

both choices have consequences....she chose to "kick me out of her life"..

fast forward to last night...

XW calls and is REALLY nice...tries to talk me into changing my mind and giving back the items i took away...

XW refuses to set boundries, refuses to be consistant with discipline...

wants to be a "pal" not a parent...

its KILLIN me not to see my dd, but i know i cant give in or be blackmailed with short term fixes...

all i ask from my kids is two things...respect and obidience to rules and boundries....i explain im not friend...im a parent...

over all we have a GREAT relationship but the dis-respect and constant tension and stress caused by dd affects everyone around and her mom refuses to acknowledge theres a problem and paints me as "over reacting"

basically "blameing" me for any problems...

she is a WW and still lives in the fog, btw...

i feel im right by staying firm, and setting reasonable boundries such as respect and obiedience....

over all my dd is a pretty good kid, but has a lot of negativity and anger...she refuses to see our therapist...and i dont think forcing her is the answer...

i miss her, but i think im doin the right thing...i tell her i love her alomst everyday, but unless she accepts her part in the problem and agrees to therapy...

i dont want to see her, because the problems will just compound....

the main thing is....if i discipline or hold accountable, the comment was always....i dont care...mom will do this....or do that....

can i...as one parent be sucessful with discipline and setting boudries when the other parent does not???

i feel like im banging my head against the wall sometimes...because i am the one suffering for taking a stand and not accepting bad behavior....

is there a way to balance this if one parent refuses to be a parent????

our custody is equal 50/50 physical/legal...but i will not force dd to see me...this is what im struggling with....

any thoughts????

Sorry, only got a minute right now, but all I can say is "wow". I know your question is more about your daughter than your GF, but I have to say that your GF's comment was extremely cruel and disrespectful, and well-deserving of everything else that followed. Make sure you you do not underestimate the damage this comment might have done to your daughter.

AGG

Gotta say I disagree with ya AGG. None of us were there to hear tone of voice or body language, etc., but just based on words of email & context he told us, I think GF's position was very sound & correct. Well said too!

To your questions: I've often faced the same crapola from my exwife too. She tries to out do me, competes for everything from fun vacations, to toys, etc. She tries to be their buddy/pal too.

Here's my take. I too believe we're here to be parents, not best friends. True, I want to be kind & friendly to my kids, but that is not my primary role here on earth. I'm their parent.

I believe kids with sound & reasonable boundaries will thrive. It may take time for them to realize YOU & I are the true parents, but they will come around if they have any sense at all.

Key to this working is to always be consistent & ALWAYS make sure they know beyond doubt that we love them dearly. And teach them that true love is found in boundaries & clear expectations.

Sturg, I don't have a teen (yet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />), but I have to agree w/ AGG, somewhat...

I get what your GF was trying to say to your DD and her attempt to phrase it as constructive criticism, but I do think she was out of line for saying what she did. Was your daughter being openly rude or disrespectful to your GF to prompt her comment? I realize she's been "dealing" with your DD's bad attitude for a year, but understand that to your daughter, she's still an outsider, and interloper of sorts who SHE"S now having to deal w/ and share her Dad's attention w/ and now, this outsider, just criticized her.

OY.

AND

Now her DAD is taking GF's side by punishing her and taking away things. See the REAL issue (her bad attitude in general) is not what she's able to focus on. It's ALL about how GF said a hateful thing to her. So now she going to punhish YOU by rejecting YOU b/c she feels rejected by you and she feels rejected by GF.

Am I making sense? You thought women were diffcult? Hah! Teen girls are the worst! I know. I used to be one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Let things cool off a smidge Sturg, but you need to talk to your DD, explain to her that it's her geneneral negative attitude and disrespectful nature that has gotten certain priviledges revoked, and that you still LOVE her and want to see her but will not tolerate bad behavior, and your GF needs to apologize to her for her hurtful comment. It may be the truth, but she doesn't need to hear that kind of stuff from someone who is not her parent.

Gotta be honest here Sturg. If my ex-hubby's GF said something like that my DD (even if it was true) it would totally tick me off! Mama bear claws come flyin' out!!

Again, I may be singing a different tune when my 10 yo hits her teens <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Some of the best advice I ever heard was that only blood relations should discipline. Everyone else is going to create more ill will than anything else.

Sturgis, what was your daughter doing? Had she stepped over the line? I guess I'm also wondering why your GF chose that moment, at a party, to say something to your daughter. Could you two have been embarrassed that others thought she was angry?

In general, I'm with DevastatedWife. I'm also wondering why you took away the cell phone.

As far as the girl's mother goes, you'll just have to do your best. You can't dictate what rules she has in her house any more than she can dictate your rules. The good news is the children will have to distinct examples to chose from when bringing up your grandchildren.

I have a 15 y.o. son (plus one 12 & one 11)& I tell them this about the differences in our house VS his dad's: Dad & I are different people, I have no control over what happens at his house or over the choices he makes. I can only do what I think is right here in our house. I make choices based on what I think you need to do to have a secure future. I expect certain behaviors & there is no getting around that without consequences.

Two of my boys will try to talk me to death regarding what they perceive as unfairness. I try very hard to not get drawn in to these discussions, only muddies the waters. I will simply restate my expectations.

If this had happened with one of my sons I'd write a letter ( so as not to getin to a fight) spelling out my feelings about the behaviors I don't like & what the consequences are for those behaviors. Try to keep it simple & to the point. Make sure to tell her you love her.

Your GF's comments...this is more difficult to deal with. I don't think you want to appear to be taking sides with your GF but on the other hand it sounds like GF was expressing thoughts others have expressed or wanted to. You don't have control over what others say & that includes your GF. If you allow yourself to get dragged into the kind of situation where your daughter tries to pit you against your GF it's a no win. You might say you're sorry if your GF's words hurt her feelings but you have no control over others thoughts or words. Then leave it at that.

One last thing: Tell her her negativity is affecting those around her, including you. It makes you not want to spend time with her & that's the saddest thing for you. Tell her you miss her too.

I have a teenage daughter with a major negative attitude also. I thought your GF's comments were right on and if she said them in a caring way, were perfect. I think I'm going to use that with my daughter! It's alot better than my H, who tends to say things like "quit flapping your mouth if you can't be nice". Sigh.... It's a tough place to be in, between your difficult child and your significant other.

I agree that none of us were there to hear the tone and see the body language. But, IMO, this woman has no business telling Sturgis' daughter that essentially she is currently ugly inside, but with some adjustment, there is hope for her yet.

Even if she were a stepmom that woud be a very dubious statement to make, even with the best of intentions. But, she is not a stepmom, she's a girlfriend, and to say this to a teenage girl dealing with self esteem and family breakup issues, in front of a bunch a people, would be a nuclear lovebuster in my eyes.

AGG

I agree 100%.

Sturgis has another thread on GQ... I've written there... about discipline and what I see the role of a step-parent to be...

What we (as the adults in these situations) need to realize is that these kids (young or teens) have had a MAJOR disruption to their lives, essentially losing one full-time parent, which causes issues with mistrust in adults, to say the least.

When a step-parent comes into the pictures it can't be with guns-a-blazin'... it must be with the utmost respect and care for the situation.

Plus, as I've always said, step-parents have no business meeting out discipline. The ONLY situation where I might change my stance would be if one parent were widowed or abandoned... and the new parental figure will be with the children 100% of the time. Even then, care must be taken... extreme care.

I feel fairly strongly about this, as you can see.

I have no problem with the discipline that sturgis chose -- that's his business... it's his girlfriend who I disagree STRONGLY with ... it takes TIME to have a safe, comfortable relationship with step-kids... years, I think. In some cases, not even then. And definately not with someone who may or may not be around in six months.

some great insight...

i was alittle pressed for time yeaterday and REALLY frustated so ill clarify a couple of thoughts now....

dd has refused counselling a number of times...she seems to have a problem maintaining friendships because of negativity (thats my opinion) in watching her interactions with friends..

she has a loving personality, but it dosent come out too often...

as far as GF...there was no choice or support for the comment...the comment is only a TOPIC that is now the focus rather than a symptom of deeper problems...

whether or not GF made a comment, this action would have occurrred because we were on this path for some time...

she is spoiled...i realize this, some of it IS absolutly MY fault...i went through alittle period of trying to be "disneyland" dad...but have really taken a step backward...

the frustration that im having is the original question...

how have others balanced discipline or boundries when the HXW ( horrible x wife) (LA, i like it!!) does everything or goes out of her way to undermind you???

yesterday dd calls me after initially agreeing to therapy...she said that now that she agreed to go, why wont i give her phone or insurance back...

there was NO apology, NO remorse, NO acceptance of responsibility...as a matter of fact, the comment was made "now that im staying with mom, i dont have any problems" (ouch!!)

i again told her, i dont care if she has a phone, i dont care if she gets insurance....those are privilages i have paid for and now, will not...i will not reward bad behavior...these are privilages...NOT necessity...

if she wants a phone, she knows she can buy her own phone and minutes...

THIS is the underlining problem....NOT GETTING HER WAY and not taking responsibility...

btw....GF has apologized at least 3 occasions to dd and knows that although the comment was NOT wrong...it was wrong for her to address it...WE have come to that aggreement and she realizes the mistake...

what has happened is GF opened herself up for the focuof attack....she now knows this...

when dd was reminded about apology....she said "im all out of forgiveness"....i had to laugh...THAT is the only thing she focus's on!!

life is pretty predictable...we ALWAYS spend alot of time dealing with TOPICS but not the REAL problem or symptoms....she is NO different...

one last thing to convey my frustration....

after i told her, i would not return phone....she CANCELLED therapy with HXW blessings....

HXW also told her not to worry...if she lives with her full time, then I WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE CHILD SUPPORT....SO THEY WILL JUST BUY THINGS FROM THAT MONEY!!!!

that is what im dealing with.....

how do you balance discipline when your X encourages bad behavior.....

im at a loss......

Quote:
my GF has been dealing with the "teen" attitude for over a year and finally made a comment to to dd

"you are so beatiful, but one of the most negative teens i have ever been around, if you could take some of the outer beauty and put it on the inside, you would be a total package"


I think you GF meant well but may have come across a little harsh... But something tells me that it just wasn't this comment that set her off. If your DD truly respected your GF then she may have reacted differently.

How about you and your DD going to some counseling together to get her to open up more to you? I have found this to help immensely with my 15 year old DD. You may be suprised at what is really bothering her.

You sound like a great Dad. Hang in there and keep working with your daughter.

Hi sturgis,

Sounds like your ex is playing the disney parent or at least trying for best buds. A spoiled child will think she deserves all that she wants. Getting her away from that kind of thinking would be my aim.

Your DD is using therapy against you knowing how much you want it, she's manipulating you. Take that tool away. Don't bring it up.

I would pick a simple, steady approach with your DD. Start by knowing what it is you want for her & what she wants for herself, write it down. Know what you need to do to support those desires for her. Tell her what you're prepared to do to support her & explain what she needs to reach those goals.

You might say you don't agree with some choies your ex makes for her & you are only in a position to control you & your choices & behaviors.

DON'T allow your DD to drag anything else into the conversation. Tell her from the start this is what you want to discuss with her. You'd like the conversation to stay on topic & not get into arguments. Tell her you will end the discussion & wait for another day if this happens.

Keep your expectations & don't let her slide from those thinking you're giving her a break. IMO this is where some unreasonable expectations start creeping in.

just a quick update.....

well well......

i went to see therapist yesterday and went through my sitch...

and guess what.....

everyone is pretty much RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!!

its as if she was reading some of the responses i got to my post.....

ok....enough already!!

what she said is stuff we (i) already know about dealing with kids..especially teens....

firm but fair...and NEVER sacrafice ones principles...

she agreed that GF was out of line and in the future she should NEVER NEVER NEVER take sides or get involved in any negative exchange if she wants to maintain a relationship with my kids....me and GF talked about last night....she 100% agrees and understands she made a mistake....

dd is angry at the world right now, GF just merely gave her and my X and easy target....stuck out her chin...so to speak....

as far as rewarding or not rewarding based on behavior...she also said that i need to stick to my guns and NOT rewared bad behavior....if that means no phone or insurance...so be it...

if dd acknowledges behavior and makes steps to correct it and honestly tries...its ok to to re-intoroduce certain things...but right now....let her make the behavior change...

she said...call her daily..tell her i miss her and i love her...take her to lunch etc...but small talk...happy talk...etc...

i should not expect any great movement any time soon...

as far as EX's are concerned............WELL..............

thats a whole 'nother issue.....maybe another thread someday!!!

my therapist absolutley was disturbed by the actions of my X, although it WASNT surprising....considering her history...

thanks all for the comments and input.....

you guys are all on the money!!!

Ah, Sturg, I love it when *I'm* right <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> LOL

No seriously, I'm glad your therapist was able to give you an objective perspective.

I'm curious, you mentioned in another post that you cut GF "from the team"?? Did you break up w/ her? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I really like your therapist's advice to call your DD everyday, showing her love yet maintaining firm boundaries.

Hope things get better soon!

had lunch with daughter yesterday and we talked about things and our sitch...

it was a GREAT time and made alot of headway....

but....i need to create some space and distance between GF and my daughters relationship with me....

GF needs to understand that my kids needs come before MY needs...somehow, this had become alittle "blurry" as a of late...(my fault)

so NOT really "cut" yet, but the ball is in her court and she knows what she needs to do...

****side note***

GF grew up in a family raised by her mom, did not know her dad and never really had a "male role" model in her life...she has no kids of her own and did not have any siblings....

she recognizes this and as a result of all this BS (i dont mean betrayed spouse!) she is talking to a therapist trying to clear up some "un-resolved" issues from her childhood...

I never realized how much or important fathers are in girls lives....

so....the saga continues! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OMG, Sturgis, Fathers are sooo important. I’m lucky that B is still very much a part of my girls’ lives. He may not be SuperDad, but he doesn’t need to be. The girls love him to death and he’s an essential part of their lives. I’m glad everyone seems to be making headway.