After reading many posts on here about infidelity, I decided that even though I am EXTREMELY embarrassed and ashamed I need some help and guidance!!

My story is kind of a long one but I will try to make it as short as possible with still be able to explain. My husband and I have been married since we were 18 and 19 years old (it was 15 years on April 20th) Anyway, after 2 years of marriage my husband cheated on me. Even though extremely wrong, I know for a fact that it was a one time thing because at the time he was in the military and we were home on leave and it was with a "old high school friend", and we left shortly after to go back to California so I know it wasn't a long time affair...but one night. But what I do question is exactly what happened!! His story has changed MANY times in the years that I questioned him about it. And finally the thing he finally admitted to was she gave him oral sex.

Ok...on to the next time....I know sad but true...we had been married for about 9 or 10 years and he admitted to kissing a girl that he met while at a bar with his friends. After this time we separated for about 2 weeks...I know not nearly long enough!! Well, after that time he was pretty good (as far as I know) but about 2 years ago I finally had enough of being the one that was always forgiving and wondering!! And I got revenge!! Or so I thought....I know two wrongs don't make a right...And starting "talking" with a guy that I work with for about 2 months or so. Flirty, etc.then after about 2 months I got the nerve and ended up meeting him one night after work and we exchanged a kiss (I SWEAR nothing more!!) So after feeling HORRIBLE and telling my husband I thought we were ok...or at least better!!

Then last August my husband ended up going to our friend's surprise birthday party without me...I had a migraine...so I told him to go without. You see, my husband was injured at work about 3 years ago and has been off of work since and I knew he needed to get out of the house...so I told him it was ok to go without me and to have fun!! Well, maybe that much fun!! Anyway, after a lot of drinking...not saying that is an excuse...but unfortunately it is the excuse I have heard...I am assuming our "friends" were into so "funkier" stuff than we thought. You see they all starting skinny dipping...which is ok...maybe not ok...but at least 1/2 way normal...but then I guess things started getting REALLY strange and they starting having basically an orgy...girls kissing girls...and spouses kissing other peoples spouses, etc. Well guess what!! Yep...hubby decided to kiss one of my friends friend (who was actually the only single person there) supposedly ask her to do more but after he realized what he asked and what was REALLY going on around him stopped himself before "more" happened and came home. Which is another thing he NEVER drinks and drives. So was he to drunk to know what he was doing?? But sober enough to drive??

Anyway, I really know this sounds HORRIBLE and yes we have tried counseling BUT I think our counselor (and the hubby) thinks that I was more wrong because I did what I did sober and "talked" for 2 months. Where his were three "drunken" one nightstands. And I feel that I would of NEVER done anything except I was fed up with being the one that was deceived!! And that I only "talked" to him for 2 months because it took me that long to work up the nerve and that even though that is EXTREMELY wrong I at least did my once, promised to never do it again and haven't!! Where maybe his were "drunken" one nightstands BUT that he has done this to me not only once but three times (that I know of!!) Needless to say we have stopped counseling...

Ok, I am really feeling ashamed now and know that I probably have it coming but any advise or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated because to be honest I am just not sure if this marriage is worth saving anymore...but at the same time wonder if we can save it!! Does that make any sense?? I guess my question would be...Can this marriage be salvaged?? Or are we to long gone?? And if it can be save, what are the steps that we need to take to be able to trust again?? And stop playing the "blame game"?? And how do you find a good counselor without causing more damage??

Please help!!

Well, it could be worse. Assuming the events are actually as described.


Try counseling again. With a different counselor.

In the meantime, no social events without each other present.

JMHO

IMHO,

I have a something just does not sound right radar alert going off.

I don't know exactly what it is going off for though.

The first thing I would say is drop all of the excuses and justifications.

If everytime a married person got a little drunk they kissed someone or committed an A. Most people would not allow their S to drink.

You are both wrong. Why does this keep happening is the question.

Find a counselor not pointing the finger at either one of you. Find one that wants to know the real why.

BTW don't say you did it because he did it.

If I had to guess you were both young when you got married and kinda wanted to know what else was out there.

Again that is MHO.

Thanks WAT and Hurtingless for the replies!!

I do agree that the facts that I gave may seem false. Or not quite complete truths...And to be perfectly honest, I have always wondered that myself!! Has the complete truth been exposed?? Or is there still some skeletons?? I do know on my part, the complete truth has been told...but how can I be sure that my husband as been as truthful??

WAT I defintely agree with your comment about no social outings without each other. And in all honesty we have been trying to stick with that rule....or at least for the past year!! Not that we ever really went out without each other but when we did...well you know the rest!!

Hurtingless I have to admit your comments were a little bit tougher to take...but like the saying goes...truth hurts!! You were very correct in saying that I have been making excuses and trying to justify my behavior!! I thnk we both have...but unfortunately, it is a huge mixture of conflicting emotions when you have be the one betrayed and the one that did the betraying!! I know bad kharma!! But unfortunately, that is just another part of our vicious cycle...Is there anybody else here that has been on both sides of the spectrum?? If so how are you making it thru?? Is there hope??

You ask why do we do what we do?? I don't know...and I would love for some insight on that one. Because in my opinion until we figure that out it may never stop...

Drinking has also been a huge issue...But IMHO this is something else that he has worked on and has greatly improved!!

I know in my heart that what I did was EXTREMELY wrong!! And for that I am truly sorry!! But I also know that in 15 years of marriage there have obviously been some good times as well. And that by what I have written today we probably seem as dysfuctional as them come!! But believe it our not, I know we love each other...and I really hope this site and forum can help us thru our path of recovery and finally break those vicious cycles!!

Thanks Again, Fullofdoubt

Hi FOD,

I'm sorry to hear you're having a tough go of things right now.

In your travels around this site have you read any of the articles?

I'd recommend reading about emotional needs and any articles mentioning how/why affairs happen.

The bottom line is this...there are needs going unmet within your marriage that are leading to conditions that make each of you at risk for further, more involved affairs.

Dr. Harley's book His Needs, Her Needs sounds like a must have in your situation. It can be purchased here on the site or at Chapters/Indigo as far as I know.

I would suggest that you and your H read the book together and, if it's within your means consider counselling with Dr. Harley.

IMO...almost any marriage can be saved...IF both parties are willing to make a complete and honest effort at recovery.

I hope that helps...or at least offers you a starting point.

Take care,
B.

I am glad you didn't take offense to what I said.

You see what you said here is what I call situational morals, ethics or standards. Take your pick.

I do not believe in A's. A year after my FWW's A I had a business training course. There was a very attractive woman in my class and as luck would have it she was put in my group of 5 trainees. The group had to spend anywhere from 1-2 hours after class on presentations and homework. As luck would have it again the other 3 people were unresponsible and lazy. So if we agreed to meet at 6 pm it was us waiting for them to show up doing the work for 5 people. Well she started dropping some pretty big hints to me that she was up to some no strings SF. Now you don't know my story but at that point I could have justified having an A. I politely declined and then made sure to keep a good boundry. If I decided to have the A it wasn't because my FWW did it was because I did not live up to my own standards, ethics and beliefs.

You need to deal with that and figure out why you made that choice. Besides the one you think you have.



If he is an alcoholic then you will not be able to recover until he sobers up.

If he is an alcoholic that does not give him the right to use that as a justification either.

You see I had a friend when I was younger that used alcohol as an excuse for things with women. We had a rule as a group. Do not let me do anything with a woman unless you know I would do it when I was sober. So we kept trying to do that for him. It was always the same pattern. He used drinking or being drunk as the excuse. The real reason is he wanted to do it, got drunk then used it as an excuse.

Alcohol does lower your inhabitions but it does not make you do everything in your life wrong. Trust me I have gotten drunk some over the last 12 years and never woke up next to another woman.

I agree with what Banyak has said.

In order for your M to work you really need to know why this has happened. If you settle for the easiest answers then the chance of it not happening again are pretty slim.

Banyak--

Thanks so much for your words of encoragement!!

Before writing this post I had not read many of the articles. But since, have read a few that I thought pretained to my husband and my 'situation'. And I have also been sent Dr. Harley's books--'Surviving An Affair' and 'Fall In Love Stay In Love' and after reading your reply decided it would also be beneficial to order 'His Needs Her Needs'!! Thanks for the suggestion!!

And as far as your comment-- "The bottom line is this...there are needs going unmet within your marriage that are leading to conditions that make each of you at risk for further, more involved affairs." I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment and I am hoping that Dr. Harley's books and this site will help and guide us with this...and more!! That goes without saying our having to but in some hard work!!

Again thanks for the words of wisdom...they are greatly appreciated!!

Hurtingless--

Again I appreciate your reply!! And I have not taken any offense. The way I see it...I have it coming!! And to be perfectly honest sometimes the things that are the hardest to hear are the things that you need to hear the most!!

But in my defense, I too have past up previous opportunities like you have described in your last reply... there have been many years that I was the one that had been betrayed and SWORE that I would never 'stoop that low' But unfortunately, I wasn't strong enough to live up to those morals...and like you said I was the one that choose to break those morals. And the answer to 'why??' can only be found within myself!!

Granted a EA is just as hurtful as a PA I am sure...And even though what I did (a 2 month EA and a one-time kiss) is not crossing the sexual boundary. I am sure it hurt my husband just the same, and for that I am trully sorry!!

And you are correct when you say that alcohol shouldn't be a justification either!! And I also know that this is another issue that needs to be addressed!! I too have said many times that maybe he went out with the intention to betray me and just used the fact that he was drunk (or the opportunity to drink for that matter) as an excuse!! Is he an alcoholic?? This is also an question that I have ran thru my head many, many times...

Hurtingless, you sound like a 'good guy' and I commend you on the fact that you have never strayed and that you stand strong behind your beliefs!! However, I think that the reason I am here is so that we DON'T settle on the 'easiest answers' anymore and maybe finally break the cycle!!

Thanks Again both of you for the advice and encouragement,
Fullofdoubt

Good for you!!!!!!

I applaud you then. You are taking ownership of your actions and that is all you can do.

I would never compare A's with someone.

What I would do is get the books recommended and find the EN questionaire on the site.

Both of you should fill it out. That is your first step in making sure you are filling the right needs.

Then get a good MC and talk, talk and be honest.

To me it sounds like you are ready to do that.

Now he needs to be ready as well.

I don't think I am a "good guy" by the way for not having an A. I think I just lived by what I believed.


Maybe it wasn't his intention when he left. But my rule on alcohol and women is simple. If attractive woman is around showing me inappropriate attention do not drink to much that it effects my inhabitions. Or drink so much I could not possibly perform. LOL.

I have found that throwing up on someone kills the mood. Just kidding.

Hurtingless--

Thanks again for the reply!!

I do feel confident that I am ready for the hard work, and like you said I am really trying to take ownership of what I did and what I need to do to fix my marriage!!

I can only hope that my husband feels and will do the same!!

And as far as your comments on drinking...it made me laugh!! Thanks for the smile <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />:)

Thanks Again, Fullofdoubt

Full,

NP I am always good for a few laughs.

I am glad you are taking ownership. I can honestly say that is usually the hardest part of these messes.

Make sure to not be confrontational. What I mean is you both have feelings regarding this. If he tells you it hurt try to avoid saying, now you know how I feel etc.

You both have issues to deal with. Each should be able to express their feelings in a safe environment.

Try to make it safe for him to tell you his feelings. Maybe by doing this he will see he can talk to you.