my h is in, what i believe to be, the throws of an EA, tho he adamantly denies it (no matter HOW you phrase it)--and i fear he will NEVER confess (which worries me, since Harley says this is crucial to recovery).

my plan now is to plan A like mad for a month or so (as i was advised to do here), and i have hired a PI in the meantime to try to get me some evidence. so, by evidence, the MOST i can hope for is proof of calls made (those we all--H and OW too-agreed were off limits) and i dunno..maybe some evidence of PA will come up that i am not expecting..lunches, time at her house..whatever.

in the event that this is truly what i think it is..an EA with flirting and calls...what exactly IS or WOULD BE the exposure? if i can actually document calls..is this ENUF to say yes, its an EA..tho we all know he will continue to deny? (see what i am getting at?)..i will never have that confession that seems to be key to recovery. and who would i expose to, with such a "soft" situation, not a "classic" affair??

if my PI is unable to document evidence, i know i will still be worried..that an EA can still be occurring, but i cant actually EXPOSE..what would you advise then? confront with my (again) suspicions only, be called crazy..and be stuck..i know, and agree..that if *I* am uncomfortable with the sitch, that that should be "enough" for him to NC completely..i just know this guy, and know..that is not likely to fly..

i hope this isnt too confusing..

thanks..

Dear Soso,

Can you give a little more information? How long have you been married. Do you have children? How long do you think the EA has been going on? How did it come about that H and OW agreed to no phone contact? How do they know each other? Why do you suspect an EA? What do you mean, "I just know this guy"? Maybe not all these questions are pertinent but they are the ones that came to my mind when I read your letter. My H had an EA and as soon as I identified it to him as an EA he felt terrible and wrote a NC letter and sent it. He had told her he had a great marriage and was very happy in it. What made it an EA to me was that he was deceiving me about the amount of correspondence and he lied to me to go meet her for coffee. He was lying to me and to himself and treating the relationship pretty flipantly. You can read my thread for more detail if you want. It describes the roller coaster of emotions==not much help to you with exposure as my H quickly saw the wrongness of what he had been doing once he looked at this website.
Lake

sorry..if i knew how to link i would link to my post yest and last week..sorry..

married 7 yrs, 3 kids, met her in jan-feb, but think it took off may-june..

he had a midlife/whatever end of june, said the whole "ILYBINILWY" dont know what i want, dont NEED anybody, dont know if i want to be married..i had some suspicions about her, being they are together at her and my childs sports function about 3 times a week (actually--june to half of july..4 times a week with another sport too)..i snooped in his cell and bb (bb busted me since it shows how long/times people are on there) and found 4 calls..one i knew about, one the day AFTER his big announcement about not wanting to be married DURING WHICH we discussed her, my issues, he denied pa/ea...subsequently, he said he would not call her and tell her not to as well..i later even sent her an email thanking her for respecting my need for them to not contact each other, and she replied: ok, understood.

unfortunately, i almost wish my H would handle it like yours..he totally TOTALLY denies anythign..*I* am the crazy one..but i can FEEL it when they are together, and they semi-flirt even in front of me..ugh.

so i am thinking he will NEVER come clean, always deny (working on the hard evidence now..which, knowing him,he will leave when i expose..over pride if nothing else0

hope this explains it better--if not, i can surely cut and paste..sorry so sketchy!

sososad, your first step is to gather as much evidence as you can. When you are assured it is an affair, you then show him that you know it is an affair. You don't ASK him if he is having an affair, you tell him you know. That way you just bypass entirely the argument of "are you.....?" which only gives him an opportunity to DENY.

Once you have this evidence and present it to him with the news that YOU KNOW, you ask that he end all contact with the OW with a nc letter. IF he will not do that, then you begin exposing the affair.

HOWEVER, if this OW is married, I would suggest informing her H on that day and showing him your evidence REGARDLESS of your H's agreement/disgreement to end contact.

But I think if you stop asking him he will have nothing to deny. He can't DENY what you both know to be TRUE. It is also very damaging to continue asking without evidence. HE will just deny it if its true and if not, he will be insulted and annoyed.

p.s. I am very proud of you for taking a pro-active step and hiring this PI. You did GOOD. I would ask the P.I. to provide the name and phone # of OW's PARENTS in case you have to expose this affair. You will want to have that at the ready in case you need it.

sss - ditto Mel

In addition, I think you may misunderstand the point of exposure.

I sense you want to prove to him that it's an affair - to use exposure to extract an admission.

Forget that - especially if it hasn't progressed to PA. It's very easy for a WS to rationalize that an EA is NOT an affair. Like Mel said, you know it's an affair and HE knows what he's doing - whether he thinks its an affair or not.

Expose to others who may be influential in his life. Remove the secrecy. Affairs thrive on secrecy and when it gets removed, shame takes its place for many, many WSs.

thank you both for your responses..i am listening, i promise, and i appreciate every word.

unfortunately, the OW is single, but yes, her parents are integral to her life, so they are exceedingly important, imo.

i think i may have thought that i NEEDED an admission from him for best results, as i think dr harley wrote that, but that may not always be the case, esp with an EA.

the EA is just such a hard principal for me..not as cut and dry as a PA, so i worry that different folks may think its "ok" (regardless of my feelings) to flirt when you are married..call, hug..whatever --like i wonder if i called her parents and said, despite my asking her, your daughter continues to interact/flirt/whatever with my husband..would they be like.."so what??" not like she's SLEEPING with him..kwim? same with other people i would expose to.

i just struggle with the fact that altho some people i am close to and have spoken with agree with me completely, that others won't find this such a big deal, and i will look like a fool for full disclosure (which, btw, i plan to do "nothing short of the evening news"--like harley said). also, if i never have pics etc, and i am only able to see (not HAVE, per authorities) the cell phone call logs..well, then it is evidence in my head. yes, i know now what great advice that is about HOW to confront him when the time comes (and mind you, it aint getting brought up ONE BIT before then...)--ie, i KNOW what i KNOW...

sorry, i just think too much i think!

sss, I think you are worrying too much about others might think. What matters is what YOU think. An EA is every bit as much as affair an a PA regardless of what anyone thinks.

When you call her parents, you aren't going to say "your D is flirting with my H..." If you call them up it should ONLY BE because they are having an affair and you will say "your D is having an affair with my H." If she is just flirting/interacting with your H, there is no need to call because that AIN'T an affair.

You don't need your H to admit what you both know to be true, this would be true regardless of whether it is a PA or an EA. And that is what you are doing right now, finding out if it is TRUE. Instead, you need him to agree to end his affair. Hopefully, he will end that when he is convinced that you know it is true. Most likely, you will end up exposing the affair to achieve that goal.

As I understand it, you need it for recovery. This is intuitive.

You don't need it right off the bat and repetitively seeking an admission does more harm than good.

In fact, let him believe he's pulling the wool over your eyes by dropping the subject - until you have deer in the headlights evidence. In other words, lull him into a false sense of security.

Take advantage of being the BS.

BSs are rational (once the initial shock is managed).

WSs are irrational.

A BS can outwit, out strategize, out think a WS any day.

JMHO

WAT

Agree, you need an honest confession for recovery, but you aren't even close to that place yet. You first need to BUST UP the affair so you can even get to that place.