Pep,

I just caught this on the TA thread....and I'm a little confused:


I'm not sure how my name came up in this....I can't really see a connection on that thread? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Yes, a while back for a few months I tried to challenge some of the thinking over on TOW....even posted under the same name I use here so there was no confusion. You told me at one time you tried something similar and gave up. I haven't been to that site in probably close to two years....so I'm not really sure what you mean by this? I went for the same reason most folks go....curiousity created by some of the trolls who came here, also a desire to get a glimpse into the foggy thinking, and finally to see if it was possible at all to post with an opposing view in that hostile environment. It was interesting, but not a good place for me....so like you, I moved on.

I used to post on a similar board ... before I found MB ....

the nice & sympathetic OW are the ones who can draw you in toward their way of thinking

I became really close to one ... I'll never forget .... her name wan Enfant ... and we became close ... but her views about marriage made our closeness unsustainable

KWIM?

TOW is not good for you in particular ~~~> in light of your very moving share about your >ahem< "step mother" (gag) and your mother's employee helper-lady

I found that to be very touching

and I wondered.... "What is she doing at TOW? Trying to un-do the past?"

It seems a place to stay away from ... especially when one believes in marriage not infidelity

the "understanding" can turn to "sympathy" for sick behavior ... which can then lower boundaries built of values .... one must be careful

I must be careful

KWIM?

I thought you were still there under a different name.... wrong again!

LOL

Pep

PS

I forgot this

I apologize for my error

Star*fish,

Please forgive me for butting in. I'd like to say something to PEP on this subject.

There was a time (not too long ago <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) when this type of statement from you would have rolled off my back like water off of a duck...

you told me that I didn't have good fences, that every thing was too grey in my value system and boundaries

even though I am a very compassionate person and care a great deal about "doing no harm" in this world.

You, and Mel (who said I did not know what was appropriate (like her) at one time)

who saw my weakness and helped me to see what I must do to change my life around.

I have never been to TOW or any similar boards, and I never will.

I knew instinctively to "study that which I would become", so I came here.

I have wanted to tell you that for a long time Pep, and think I have told Mel.

You gave me the words, the tools to know how to put up fences and more importanctly why I needed them.

Thank you for that!

I understand perfectly what you are saying here, but at one time did not...and I hope there are other women and men reading here that can read the same wisdom that I have and possibly begin the changes they need to make to have a good life which they can be proud of.

Arkie and Orchid too, because these four women I have named are the first four I started to study and try to learn from. Star wasn't posting on this board when I came very often or I imagine I would have learned a lot from her as well.

And not study like in to study bugs, or raspberry bushes or something either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Weaver made me cry. I love you! What a beautiful statement.

Hey Weaver ...

live and learn

especially ME

I learned I need to ASK FIRST ... "Are you still posting on TOW?"

2 strikes babe

one more & I will be sent to banned camp

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Never assume Pep, never, ever assume. LOL

Faith,

That is because we are so much alike. I always thought while growing up that to be a woman meant being soft and kind...what I have learned is that it's soft on the outside but inside it's tough as steel.

It's all about protecting ones heart first, and then protecting ones family.

We aren't any good to any one if we are all beat up.

I am still learning, but very protective of who and what I let into my life.

Becoming very, very conscious of all things in my life as well as my own actions.

Phew, hard work.

Nah... 3 strikes is a turkey !
I love you too Pep.
And ((((Weaver)))), hi, good to "see" you girl.

Same to you Brownhair!

Pep,

no chere....I always felt it would be unauthentic and hypocritical to post under another name....I am who I am....here, on TOW, on other sites...in real life. When they asked if I was the "same star*fish as on MB?" (and they did of course) I said "yes I am".

Yes, I'm compassionate....but I'm not easily led or confused about what my ethical beliefs are....I have very strong convictions about affairs....and no one even came close to changing/altering/softening that.

One thing that drove my interest was that I felt that in the fight to help people understand the tragedy of infidelity....if we exclude the OP....then we're missing a huge place to make an impact. They are the third leg of the triangle. If their thinking goes unchallenged.....isn't that a form of enabling? It's not hard to convince people who are married that fidelity is important....it's alot harder to make a good argument on a place like TOW.

My effort was not totally wasted. I did have people who wrote to me there who wanted to leave their affairs and really felt that they had no place to go for advice....not there, not here....and I was able to support them in that effort...to end their affair. Tow has a very strong core of what is called HOW (happy other women) and they are not nice to those OW who are conflicted or have twinges of conscience about their affairs. Not everyone who wrote to me was successful and breaking free...but a few were....and I sure didn't enable the ones who weren't.....I was honest about the predictable consequences.

It is my <belief> in fidelity (to both self and marriage) that also prompted me to go there....not some desire to undo anything in my life. The one message I thought I was able to get through....was that affairs harm <self> as well as marriages. Even if they (OPs) don't respect marriage, or they think that the MPs marriage is crummy anyway....it's hard to justify how an affair is productive even for the OP. Also that there is a difference between joy and pleasure....affairs are pleasurable, but they don't make people happy because they're contradictory to joy (create guilt and consequence). Not everybody was interested in those messages....but I wasn't run off either and I got some interesting PMs from people who did listen.

Yes....I have the icky dynamics in my family....but my marriage hasn't suffered from <my> infidelity and I never felt foggy or tempted because I was in the TOW environment for a short time....it would take alot more than that. I just thought that it was too time consuming and that this board was better suited for the limited time allowances that I have considering what I believe.


I'm not an alcoholic going to bars yanno? It would be a terribly dangerous place for me if I was a WS....but I can promise you that the little bit of time I spent there made my boundaries and values stronger not weaker. The consequences of infidelity were written all over the lives of these OP and I thought it was such a shame that they were willing to settle for so little and willing to hurt others for short term pleasure. Many had little or no self esteem....especially the ones with the most bravado. To be honest, I can't think of environment LESS likely to encourage me to give up on marriage than one strewn with broken lives.

OK-dokey

thanks Star*

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Enfant huh? That means small child (baby) in French....interesting choice of names. Many of the people on TOW were very young. I'm not saying youth is an excuse....just stating an observation.

she broke my heart Star, being honest

I had the 'rescurer's syndrome' BIG TIME

hers was an in-church EA/PA with a MM with 2 small kids.... and she was incensed that he & wife & kids still came to church where she might have to see them !

but

I finally realized I was putting more into her recovery than she

she was 'young' by my standard (early 30s) but hardly wet behind the ears ... and was very smart, biology researcher!

I learned more about myself ... after falling face down emotionally when my EXPECTATIONS were crushed

*doh*

She most certainly did NOT have an affair with me and two small kids!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Standing in His Presence

Really Weaver?

I find that being a woman means to switch the steel/soft. I'm more steely on the outside now....if someone makes it to the inside, they get the nice noughut/caramel/marshmallow fluffy center...cos they've earned that softness....

Hmmm. Have to think some more about that...

And yes...it's all about the food with me.

I know what you mean....I felt heartbroken/disappointment for a couple of folks who didn't break free too. One gal had been abused her whole life....the MM was the first man who didn't beat her (well at least physically anyway)....sigh. Not everyone is willing or able to find their way out.....and I realized that she was one of them....and yes, I felt powerless because it was beyond any scope of help I might offer.

I think I used to suffer from "rescuer's syndrome" for a long time....but I hope I've learned my own limitations by now....otherwise....it would be a bad idea to continue to pursue counseling as a career. I applied to university to go for my MSW next year.....haven't been accepted yet. I might choose helping children rather than adults!

I love banned camp!!!

Oooops, wrong board. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Star*

the other thing I came to realize

(shaking my head at myself)

she was using me to normalize her behavior .... paraphrasing >>> "See, I am likeable. I am not against wives. But MM's wife is not nice like Pep. She deserved something like this because she was not being good to MM."

I was disgusted with myself.

Pep

I echo this same sentiment about Pep.

And LOL at "Banned Camp".

Star,

You said:

"It would be a terribly dangerous place for me if I was a WS....but I can promise you that the little bit of time I spent there made my boundaries and values stronger not weaker."

I think it probably depends on the WS's situation as well as personality.

I went to the TOW board when I was trying to end my A. Someone linked a thread from here and I was curious. To be perfectly honest, I was disgusted when I was there. I didn't feel like I could relate to that line of thinking, even in all of my fogged-out glory.

I re-visited at one point recently (as a FWW) because someone had said something in a thread again, and I was even more repulsed than the first time.

There are a lot of sick women on those boards. It's very sad, and I will never visit there again.

I guess I just wanted to comment as a FWW that being on those boards was not a danger to me (even as a WW) and in fact made me stronger.

It's interesting to me, because I would think most women in affairs would be repulsed by being known as "TOW." In an A, you are "soulmates," for pete's sake. "OW" is just downright trashy (because it's the truth, of course.) It surprises me that women would happily post on a board called TOW.

Anyway, just my 2 cents!