Hi everyone,

This is my first post but I have been reading these forums since my 2nd DDay in June. I have so much to pour out and I don't even know where to begin. I first want to say that I thank my lucky stars for finding this site and reading all of the posts. I'm currently reading SAA and I have the HNHN on order. I also have 'Tough Love' and another book that I haven't started yet. I've been in IC since 10/05 when I had a nervous breakdown after my 1st Dday. WH told me he had a ONS and that he needed to move out because 'He loved me but wasn't in Love with me".... confused, not sure what he wants in life, the usual babble. I've heard him say EVERYTHING that all or the other WHs have babbled! It truely is amazing how someone you think is so unique, is so much the same as all of the others. I refer to him as being taken by the 'Aliens' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My 2nd Dday was this past June. DH had moved back in after only being away for 1 week in October but things just didn't seem right. (I know that other BS's know what I mean here.) DH moved out a 2nd time on Memorial Day weekend to 'clear his head' and has been living with a long time male friend. I suspected an OW and finally got my proof near the end of June through cell phone records. I've exposed the A to everyone that we know. Unfortunately, she is single so there is no BS on her end to help me with my plan of attack. I've told her father and they are basically estranged so that hasn't helped me much. Her mother and sister know and basically don't care. I know nothing about her circle of friends other than my WH is now a part of THEM and they welcome him, understand him, blah, blah, blah.

He moved back home about 4 weeks ago, but he's not really home. He spends some nights at the friends house, and other nights he works.... or so he says. My gut tells me those are the nights he is with her and I'm sure that I am right.

Cell records are 1 month behind and I wish Verizon would update their system so that you could get current info, but that's how it is. They communicate thru text messages and I see them on the cell record. He hasn't figured out yet how I know and I will never tell!

His IC, at least according to what my WH says, tells him that he could be in MLC and needs to clear his head, choose one of us, or neither and be alone, but he needs to get a grip on himself and make a choice. I agree but he's still cake eating/fence sitting and I'm losing my patience. WH wanted to start have biweekly IC appointments but IC said no way he still needs weekly. I think he may have a good IC as WH has mentioned some discussions they have had regarding the importance of not throwing away a marriage too quickly, taking things slow, and basically sorting out himself before he crushes and ruins his life permanently.

I'm currently looking for a new IC. He has been great as far as helping me with my issues, but I think I need more sessions and he only thinks I need 1 or 2 a month! And he's starting to send subtle messages about ending my marriage as opposed to trying to save it.

As far as MC goes, WH & I have discussed it many times and he is willing to do it, however I don't think it can work while the OW is still around. WH has not agreed to NC forever yet and that's what has me riding the roller coaster right now!!!! I'm currently looking for a MC that may take just me to start and bring WH in later.

I try my best to not LB but it's so DAMN HARD sometimes!!!!
I agree with all the other BS's that it's so unfair that WE are the ones that have been hurt and wrong and WE have to be the good guys! It's not fair and I just want to beat the ever-living crap outta him sometimes!!!!!! Plus the fact that I'm perimenopausal certainly doesn't help matters much! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

My one consolation in all of this is that I know the OW has nothing on me. Yes, she is about 8 yrs younger, has no grey hairs, minimal wrinkles and big you-know-whats, but she's HUGE! She is a ball & chain to him, which I have never been, she hates hunting which is a passion of my WH's, and I support him doing that. However she likes to party and my WH is/was an alcoholic but had stopped drinking for 9 years until he hooked up with her! She has rekindled something in him from his past and he's loving that part.

I guess I've gone on enough for my 1st post. Thanks everyone for being here and I'll post back some more info as I can. I don't get on the PC as much as I'd like unfortunately.

Thanks for listening!

*edited* I forgot to ask if anyone knows how to get/sway/convince/manipulate <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> a WH to do the ENs & LBs questionaires? I've done mine and he has his copy. He said he has looked at them a couple of times but hasn't done them yet. He wants to talk about mine, but I have been insistant that we share them together so that he can't answer his questions based upon mine!

Scampi, Welcome. My 2d d-day was at the end of April, and NC a few days later.
I don't have any advice for you, except that you will have to figure out what you want and what price you are willing to pay to keep him around. For me, the 9 months of lies between d-day 1 and 2 were a deal-breaker and I was ready to end the marriage. Still am, if there is another A. And when I communicated that clearly, NC happened.
Maybe some of those who have been around longer will chime in here.

You forgot "trick." About the only way to "get" a WS to do what you "want" is to trick them.

In order to get/sway/convince/maniupulate another person, you must have a reasonable understanding of the other persons thought processes. And you don't. Not anymore.

What you have done so far is EXACTLY RIGHT.

"WH, I have filled out my EN stuff, and I am waiting for you to do yours before we share them."

There is nothing untoward implied by your stance. But at this point, it is all you have. (The SAME thing happened to me. My WS never filled them out.

Having said that, it is not hopeless. For you have made a statement FAR STRONGER than you may know. You have put down a boundary. You share them TOGETHER, or not at all. If you begin wavering, guess what - your WS will take advantage of shifting your boundaries to stay comfortable every chance he gets.

Begin making your list of what will fly and what won't. Your boundaries. But be very careful. It has far more damaging to MOVE one than to have too many. Work on yourself and send a message of consistency. Affair relationships are fickle, and changing. As the partners learn that "maybe this isn't what we wanted."

Many say your plan A is to make you look as or more attractive than the OP. That is a huge bill to fill, because the OP is the fantasy. It is hard to compete with that. The WS looks at the OP in an unrealistic light. And that is a lie. And like any lie, it takes effort to sustain it. Your job in plan A (and yes, work on you too, so your inner value shines) is to be consistent. Because an inconsistent relationship is exhausting.

Whether you know it or not, you started down that path by setting the boundary of the questionairres being shared together. Pick those boundaries carefully, becuase one may trigger your "Plan B" execution. They are not whims of the day, they are things that truly matter.

NCWalker

Thanks for replying In Limbo Land. I too wonder how long I can keep this up. Part of me wants to just file for D and show him I mean business, but the other side really and truely wants this to work out. Tough decision. Throughout our entire marriage we both said the one single thing that neither of us could ever forgive would be an A, and here I am working on forgiveness. Funny isn't it?

I'm working on getting info to expose her at her work. During the summer she is a nanny and works in a school as a teacher aid during school months. Bet both bosses would love to know her moral values huh??? Especially the nanny family! Who knows, they might just think I'm some crazy person and ignore the info.

D is really a tough choice. Mostly financial. I'm the breadwinner, I carry the benefits, etc... I'll most likely end up supporting HIM if this happens!!!

He's asked for a D a couple of times when we had LB moments/fights, and I told him go ahead and file and I'll sign, but he won't do it. I refuse to be labelled as the bad guy for the rest of my life for being the one to file for D.

I'm working up the courage (perhaps writing a script?) to talk to our friend that is letting him stay with him. He's a very close friend and he basically was trying to help him by giving him a place to 'sort out his head'. Friend swears that the OW has never been to his apt. WH meets her somewhere but no one knows where. I need to let him know that he has to tell my WH that he can't stay there anymore and needs to either get his own place or move home. I believe it's come to a point now where this 'place to escape to' is enabling my WH to fence-sit.

WH can't afford an apt of his own and I do know that OW shares an apt with someone, but she could be living with the family she nannys for now - don't know for sure. I do know that she sucks all of her 'guys' for $ and moves constantly.

And she's been sucking away my family's $ too and I'm rippin' mad and fighting like ****** to reclaim everything.

Just opened my own savings account and changed my work direct deposit to stash some away there for myself in case this all falls apart.

Sometimes I feel like I'm working too many fulltime jobs! My real job, mom, nursemaid, soccermom/taxi service, now add PI and military offensive into the mix! It's taxing!

Sorry for babbling and thanks for listening!

THANK YOU ncwalker!!! Your post has given me more lift than I have had in quite awhile! Sometimes I wonder if I am doing the right things. I know that I don't have a full Plan A yet. Even I'm not sure what my own boundaries are yet. I have a list of conditions that he has to meet but I haven't shared them with him yet because I feel those are things that can't be implemented until NC happens.

He knows how I feel about NC. Says she owes him over $1000.00 and wants his $ back and has to be nice to her until he gets it. Fog speak - babble - alien speak... no one needs to tell me he's lying here! I'm no fool!

I told him that how I see this situation is: me, the M and the family are worth less than $1000. I can consider it like gambling. You bet a grand and lost it. Learn from your mistake and don't gamble again. He sees it differently. He also has always been this way about $. If he ever loans $ he ALWAYS makes sure he gets it back! My big LB was telling him that she used him for the $ and will never pay it back. How DARE I speak that way about the OW!!!

UGH!! gotta make dinner now. Hope to get back on later tonight.

Scampi,

You said: I refuse to be labelled as the bad guy for the rest of my life for being the one to file for D.

I am not sure who would label you as the bad guy for refusing to condone an A. Again, you have to decide what it is you really want. Sounds as if you want to give him more time to sort it out (which I did, too, during the 9 months when his story smelled rotten.)

I like your approach to the EN questionnaire.

Trick - yes, that is a word I forgot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I think I may have done that tonight. After dinner tonight I brought up the questionaires again and WH said we can do
them this weekend. I also reminded him about his "cake eating" that his IC brought up last week. He has an appointment tomorrow.

No LBing, smiling and happy talk, very comfortable conversation. Gee I'm getting good at this!

Thanks for making me think, In Limbo Land.... I guess it's a self-applied label. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Or perhaps I'm worried that my friends, my family, my kids and his family will think that I didn't work hard enough on the marriage. Gotta think more on that one. I already know that my best friend thinks I'm insane for not kicking him to the curb back in October! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I know that it's not good to worry what others think of you (IC helped me to see that) but family is very close, both mine and his.

OK, I'll admit that it's a self-applied label. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I don't hear you being sure yet, one way or the other. And your decisions have to be right for you, deep down, no matter what friends or family tell you you should do.

Scampi,
Welcome and I'm glad you came out of lurkdom. You are on the right path, are you familiar with the carrot and stick of plan A? You are in a battle and you must have your wits about you. You have to make marriage, wife and family look like the most appealing choice for WH. Not easy when he is cake eating, but it must be done. And you must make the OW and affair look as trashy and sordid as it is.

1. Be appealing, but have boundaries in place.
2. Expose the affair to everyone you can.
3. Protect yourself financially
4. Counseling, meds, whatever you need to keep your sanity
5. Your DD's and helping them through this

Did I understand that he has fallen off the wagon? He was sober and now is drinking with OW? That will be another big hurdle. I'm not sure what you do about that but protect you and the kids from his self destructive path.

Thanks everyone for your support and advice. Yes I know carrot & stick approach. Been working on that for awhile! The infidelity diet is not a bad thing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I've had low self esteem for several yrs, and have overcome that. I realize now that I'm an AWESOME person and whoever ends up with me is gonna be damn lucky!! I've dropped close to 40 pounds, which is great! I feel physically better now in my 40's than I did all thru my 30s! Still got another 20 or so lbs to go to be where I will be at my goal, but firming up and looking fabulous! Got a new hairstyle and highlighting and keep up with those darn roots and greys that I used to just live with.

Everyone I see says how they can't remember the last time I looked so great and a lot of it is inner changes. Doc says I have prob been suffering from depression for many years and no one saw the signs. I'm on antiD's and anti anxiety meds, as is WH. My outlook on life is very good. Yes, there are sad and bleak moments, but more good ones than bad. I know that no matter what the outcome of this firestorm is, I will come out of it a better person.

I no longer spend most of my time wearing WH's clothes and I've invested in some very nice feminine clothes for myself that I DO flaunt in front of WH. Even sexy lingerie that I haven't worn in over 14 yrs pre kids!

I've also overcome a lot of my SF issues. Was inhibited, unsecure, not quite sure how to express that, but it came after kids. I was not a prude earlier in the marriage. I think my self image change and my insecurity caused a lot of that. Barrier and inhibition walls have come crashing down and I think I've hit my womanly 40's prime! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Small baby steps towards R improvement. We have our 1st MC appointment next Tues. MC wants WH to phone him for an interview by tomorrow. MC says to tell my WH it's for him to interview the councellor, but in fact it's really for the councellor to see what he says regarding the current M sitch. Kind of feels like trickery but he said I was the 1st to make the call and I'm willing to fight for my M he stands behind me 100%. He is also familiar with the MB principles! Horray!!!

WH has been home for 7 nights in a row now. Makes it easier for me to show him what he is missing. I've been fantastic at no LB's, no DJ's and no AO's. He too has been much better. Some LB's but since we haven't shared the Q's yet, he doesn't know them, so I have to niceley explain how I feel when he does this.

He is complementing me and noticing my changes daily. Is more attentive to me and the kids. I enjoy this very cautiously, but it feeds my desire to continue doing more/better. I've openly expressed my SF needs and have stated that we are still married and I will NOT stray outside of the M to fill my needs and he needs to be there for me, but I will not initiate due to me not knowing 100% about OW now.

Our encounters have been more often and more passionate than I can remember!

If I had to fill out the survey of needs for my WH I would pick SF and his #1 priority. He has always been as if he were a teen boy! I can almost guarantee that this need is what he was searching for in the OW and I know from speaking to some people that this is probably last on HER list, so I have the upper hand here.

Staying optimistic and cautious as I ride the rollercoaster!!

Had a nice weekend I guess. WH & I went for a motorcycle ride with 5 other couples yesterday and it was a beautiful day and an overall nice time.

WH wrapped his arm around my leg a few times when we were riding. Doesn't sound like much but's it's Physical contact that I have been craving. One couple has only been dating for 2 months and they were all over each other. I sooooo envied them! I wanted to be held and snuggled and kissed like that! It made me very sad to watch.

At one of our coffee stops WH said this simple statement... : 'OW is such a b!tch and a c--t! She wants me to buy all new clotes and dress up, and.... then he faded to silence as others came walking over to us.

Later that evening after dinner, I asked him if he wanted to elaborate on his discussion from earlier. I had to remind him what he said, and he said no, that's all, just that she's a b!tch. So I said.... "Why are you still doing this? You know that you need to end this and your IC has told you to stop worring about everyone elses feeling and worry about your own!" You already know that I've been hurt, and I'm trying hard to move on. Why can't you just end this with the NC we have spoken about and let her move on from her hurt as well?"

His response was "Why is it we have to talk about this EVERY SINGLE DAY?" My calm response was "Because we LIVE in it every single day hon. You, me, the kids, our family, our marriage. E-v-e-r-y s-i-n-g-l-e d-a-y! If you could just end this A and be over it, we can move on and NOT talk about it. But because it is continuing, it's like talking about the weather.... something that happens that affects us every day. I'm sorry you don't like this, but this is how I heal myself.

The rest of the evening was just quiet time watching tv then to bed. 2 nights in a row without a hug or kiss or 'I love you."

Fog still very thick around this house!

We are supposed to discuss questionaires tonight. I'm doubtful, but maybe he'll surprise me.