Is it possible to flirt, hug, compliment the opposite sex, in an innocent way? Especially after experiencing infidelity in a marriage?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Why the eyeroll icon, Myrta?

I'm curious.

What would be your intent to flirt, hug or compliment a member of the opposite sex?

LA

No, it has not been me. It has been my dear husband Stanley. I found out he has been heavily flirting with a co-worker for some time now. I read an email he wrote someone else, telling all the heavy flirting he was doing with this woman. But he says he has not "cross the line" That it is all innocent and pure.

Can it be innocent to hurt the one to whom you have pledged your life?

I don't think so.

It is disrespectful to your spouse. It says, in effect, "my spouse is not enough".

Just my opinion.

-AD

Myrta,

(We posted simultaniously.)
I'm sorry. It's not innocent.

-AD

Well, my husband is saying that he is not "that way" and that he would NEVER cross the line. THat it is all so innocent and playfull. That I should not worry.

If it hurts YOU, and he is committed to YOU - he HAS crossed the line.

I would ask that Stanley post his intent...his purpose in his actions...only he knows.

And what matters is how you feel...and have you told Stanley?

LA

Yes, it does hurt me a lot!! Especially the way he refers to this woman. Saying that if she was not married, it would be too hard to resist. The way he brags about the flirting, that he touched her neck. He says he touched her neck, because she said that she thought she was running a fever, and since he is a doctor he had to "feel" her skin. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I told him how I feel, and he is dismissing it, and turning it against me. I am wrong in thinking there is anything wrong, because he is not like me . I have err one time and had been paying my debt for over two years now. I have repented and he knows this.

I recommend that you tell him that you are not worrying, but hurting, now. If he think's that whatever thrill he gets out of this is worth your pain, then he will continue.

-AD

If you were a new poster and we didn't 'know' Stanley, I think you would be warned he is in at least an EA.

Honestly, that is what it sounds like to me.

Is he doing this to see how far he can go before he crosses the line?

Is he trying to prove that he is a better person because he doesn't cross the line?

Very interesting.

And - yes - I believe flirting can be innocent. That does not matter. If it hurts your spouse - or would if they saw you do it - it is wrong. I have done it. It is wrong.

I wish I could tell you what to say, but you will need to get some advice from one of the old guides. You need to kick him in the balls, and get his attention.

I would have done almost anything if my WW had come back, repentant, and done what it takes to make it work. Yes - we all make mistakes and do things we should not - but he is flaunting.

What a bunghole.

far

When you skate on the edge, sometimes you fall off. What a tragedy that would be.

I'm holding back. I want to call him all kinds of non-constructive names. Most of them anatomical descriptions.

far

Myrta,

"I told him how I feel, and he is dismissing it, and turning it against me."

Take a deep breath...you told him what you are feeling...and tell us what makes you believe he dismisses how you feel? How do you see him turning your own feelings against you?

"I am wrong in thinking there is anything wrong, because he is not like me."

He is like you...he is human, he's married to you...and he only controls himself...

"I have err one time and had been paying my debt for over two years now."

This is a belief that is kicking your own tushie, Myrta. Beware this belief.

"I have repented and he knows this." Do you know you've repented? That you are not the same person you were?

LA

Hmm. You might want to hold off on that matey. There will be FAR more to come out before you can make that judgement. If we have heard the entire truth here I will .... oh NVM.

Lets just say I don't think you have anywhere enough info from BOTH sides to make any judgements.

When one is married, flirting with the opposite sex is not innocent. Regardless of the ultimate intent, his behavior has crossed a boundary. It's the boundaries that keep spouses in check. Once they go, anything can happen.

Myrta, how long has this been going on?

Hi Myrta

Flirting was Squid's middle name. Look where that led.

I have flirted with women in the past but I KNEW why I was doing it - I was basking in the light of knowing they found me attractive. People don't flirt with people they don't find attractive.

IMO flirting is the deliberate fertillization of a seedling sexual attraction.

I think Stanley knows this, and his actions as relayed by you REEK of entitlement to me. I can smell this because I have had the same thoughts - the desire to show Squid that I TOO am considered attractive enough to have an affair by a different person. I learned almost right away though that such is a serious lovebuster AND is playing with fire. Squid already eels vulnerable to my straying without me throwing it in her face. A BS is vulnerable and flirting is messing with a tap that can break open and gush any moment IMO.

Also even if flirting were not dangerous for a marriage, the fact that you have clearly stated how you are hurt by this behaviour and he constinues to purpetrate it shows at the very least entitlement, and at worst a desure to defy your emotional safety.

I can almost guarantee that deep down Stanley will have the words " I am ENTITLED to do this, after all MYRTA scewed a man". It s a dilute revenge affair IMO.

All I can suggest Myrta is that you continue to make it very clear that this is hurtful to you and that Stanley is deliberately hurting you by flirting with this woman.

I also believe that the unresolved isue with your OM staying in your lives because of a lack of exposure is keeping wounds open that could otherwise be healing by now. But I suspect you know that and you still won't do anything about that.

* Edited to say Myrta I hope you are not trying to assemble a 'posse' here to beat up on Stanley. I suspect you knew already that most would not support flirting as being 'innocent'. Please try to work this ussue out without fighting.

All blessings

Myrta, he has already crossed the line...BIG TIME. The above sounds like fog-speak to me… I thought EXACTLY the same thing during my involvement with OM. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I thought there was nothing wrong with some “innocent” and subtle flirting, joking and teasing with him no and then. I also thought of it as “pure” and “playful”. I thought to myself: “I have my morals in check and I know I will do nothing more than just flirting, teasing and joking so there’s nothing wrong with that and I (and my H) have nothing to worry about”. Like Stanley, I also thought I was not "that way" and could therefore continue with the behavior. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Well, how much damage and pain this thinking pattern had caused me and my H! I was SO wrong! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> This flirting contributed TREMENDOUSLY to my intense attraction and emotional attachment to OM… The flirting, joking and teasing became addictive to me...VERY addictive…and tempted me to physically ACT on my feelings as well (which thank God I never did!)

From my experience I’ve learned innocent joking with people of the opposite sex can cause them to become sexually attracted to one another even if they have NO wrong intentions at all... Subtle flirting, joking and teasing give off certain vibes for the other person to pick up on, no matter how “innocent” it may feel or appear. It's also sexually "stimulating" in some ways which can result in sinful and inappropriate thoughts and fantasies about the person.

In my situation, the computer screen made me feel safe to react on OM’s playful & subtle flirting, joking & teasing since there was not direct contact with him in person (where I could see him or hear his voice). So, I have also learned that flirting, teasing and joking on e-mail and through Internet can just be as damaging and dangerous as flirting in person.

Therefore, flirting outside the M is NEVER okay…not in any shape or form…no matter ho “innocent”, “pure” or “just playful" it may feel or appear to the participants thereof… Flirting cross a VERY important boundary. Flirting & teasing is how A’s usually starts… That’s how my EA started...and that's what leaded to my "mental betrayal" too.

What concerns me Myrta is that Stanley knows better after what the two of you’ve been through and in spite of that he still wants to continue with this behavior while he KNOWS that it hurts you... Therefore I think Bob is spot on with the following:

hi myrta

I'm sorry to have not emailed you lately but I was spending as much time as I could with Aussie before he was deployed and have been a bit remiss in keeping up with everyone.

I think Stanley is reinforcing his own sense of attractiveness to the other sex. I suspect he feels a deep seated insecurity about himself and is seeking acceptance as a desirable male.

BUT ITS STILL WRONG & HE OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD BE AWARE OF THE DANGERS.

I wish he would talk to Bob or someone & come to see its not healthy for a M or relationship.

I'll email you soon.

love

AW

I think this is one of the key components for ANY person who flirts and/or have an A... Not just Stanley. But I can see how it can be MORE so for Stanley since he is a BS and probably more vulnerable to an A at this stage than he is willing to admit to himself... Or maybe he knows, but feels (as pointed out by Bob) entitled to continue with the behavior since his W had an A.