Stanley,

I was a BS (one year anniversary close). I don't post here much; but, I was so moved to upon reading the dilemma you and Myrtra now face that I thought I had to contribute my .02.


It not only looks bad, it is bad. You wouldn't want Myrta doing to you what you're doing, would you? I mean, c'mon, you know your behavior is not right. Whatever happened to "protection"? Protecting yourself from eventually having your "flirting" progress to a full blown EA/PA?




Great! And this perspective helps your marriage how, then, if it made you relapse?


This line makes me trigger like crazy. This is what my FWH gave as his excuse for his PA. If you needed to talk more, Stanley, you know Myrta's the one you should be talking to. You've learned nothing if you haven't learned by now that communication is key in your relationship with Myrta.



There is no specific "kind" of person that enters into the fog. Any of us are capable of an affair if we don't PROTECT ourselves.

I'm sorry if I've been judgmental here, Stanley, but as a FBS, I would think you would know that what you are engaging in (if not a full blown EA, as you say) is well on its way to just that.

Please stop now and think what you're doing before things get progress.

Todd-- Sometimes no matter what a FWS does is not enough for the BS. It was never enough sex, enough communication, enough etc,etc. My husband is a perfectionist, he is seeking a perfect wife. I was never a perfect wife but when he looks back, thats what he sees. I always had many flaws and he accepted them and liked them then.

I have tried and continue trying to meet Stanley's needs. If I dont do something exactly the way he expects, he gives me the "look".

mkeverydaycnt---I think I do understand that what I did is much more severe than what my husband is doing. But nonetheless his actions are hurting me at this stage of our marriage. Like once JL said to us, he is supposed to make me feel secure so I can trust him more and more. He is not doing that by engaging in innapropriate flirting and e-mailing with a friend profusely that he says he does not care about. When I found those e=mails yesterday and I facedhim with them, he got so red in his face. Why was he so embarrass? If he is doing nothing wrong why should he get embarrass and nervous?

Hmm,

1) Decide your boundaries
2) Expose
3) Plan A

Seems straight forwards to me. Didn't you say the email partner is also married? Take that batch of emails she has sent your husband, and forward them to her husband. Better yet, print them out and mail them. You can get his address from her phone number, if you are a bit crafty.

Stanley, you crack me up. It's like a bear caught in a trap, and he's chewing off his own foot saying to himself, I'm not trapped, but I sure wish I knew what this stinging sensation was.

Myrta, as for you two not admitting to your parents, boo. I know it will be traumatic, and shameful, but gosh, their your parents. Since when have they been perfect?

Because he is wrong and he knows it.

Are you seriously nuking futz Jen?

Suzet was hung drawn and quatered because:-

1. She refused to tell OM'sW

and

2. Because she refuses to establish NC

This is a train wreck in slow motion.

And it reminds me of my first H and me... both posting on here... me, because I was a FWS, him because he was a BH (though a FWS, too)... and he felt soooooooooooooo entitled to flirt... which eventually turned into full-fledged affairs in retaliation of mine.

It sends shivers down my spine to read this thread.

I was told, as you are being told, Myrta, to Plan A my then-H **as if** I were the betrayed spouse trying to win back my WS.

He was told to do the same.

But he couldn't.

He was full of excuses, much like what we're reading here, Stan-ley. Most of all, he simply hadn't *begun* to let of go the anger toward me.

It was a dance... and in the end the music stopped. The end.

Is this what you two want?

If not, BOTH OF YOU need to step back, get some help, and quit making excuses for your bad behavior.

Myrta: Don't enlist the board to do what you should be doing with people in your REAL LIFE. What I mean is: EXPOSE to your parents and those who can help you. Also EXPOSE to the email gf's HUSBAND.

Stan-ley: ADMIT TO and STOP this EMOTIONAL AFFAIR.

The only thing that will come from this discussion is more heartache and possibly the end of your marriage.

Some imply I am resisting the end of my so-called EA.

I have ended because it hurts my wife even though I have no emotional investment. If it hurts then there will be no more communication.

I also encourage my wife to write her is she wishes to do so. I cannot hide an EA if there was no EA to start. However, it is done.

IMO, the flirting was worse. However, she is not a coworker anymore. I never got her email, number, or know her address. If I flirted it was an unplanned action. I have zero emotional investment in this one as well. In any event this one is also finito.

BTW, for a man a PA is a million times worse than an EA.

Stanley,

Just because you are willing to do it in your wife's face, doesn't change that it is/was an improper relationship. I'm not necessarily prone to jumping to the EA side of things, but the relationship that was developing was improper, to say the least.

Here's something for self evaluation...are you going through withdrawl?

Ok, Stan, you're not invested emotionally or in withdrawl. That's good. If it wasn't an EA, that's good too.

Now, forgive your W for her indiscretion and both of you invest all the energy you're putting on this board defending yourself on your marriage. If the bad behavior has stopped, then let it go. The past is the past and it can't be undone.

Stanley...You confided in another woman about your marriage...You wouldn't want Myrta to read what you confided in another woman about your marriage...So you have SECRETS with a woman other than your wife...Are no alarms going off in your head about this? Is this okay to you Stanley? If so, why?

And NO it is NOT like communications with JL...JL is a MAN!!!


Oh yes you do...You've been leading one while exchanging secrets through email with another woman...



Um, yeah Stanley that is EXACTLY how you enter the fog...Just like that...The deal is this, it seems to be no big deal because you make tiny choices (movement of boundaries) that make the big choice seem like no big deal when you get there...Seems like "it just happened"...No one walks into the fog thinking, "Here I go into the fog"...C'mon, surely you get this?



And this is part of your problem...You don't understand why Myrta came back to you...It seems that you don't feel special, loved and cherished by her...Myrta, yes, you need to Plan A Stanley-No doubt about it!!!

How about both of you doing the EN questionaire again?

Stanley your pride is poison to your marriage...It's what is getting in the way of exposing OM(even though he contacted her by phone, showed up and saw her when she was visiting her parents back in June of THIS YEAR!!!)...AND now it's what is in the way of sending a NC letter to the TOW woman and her husband...When is your marriage going to mean more to you than your image?

You say that the email relationship with the TOW woman has stopped, can you please explain how it stopped?

Mrs. W

What do you mean by this statement?

IMO, an affair's an affair's an affair.............it's a disconnect.........period.

Stanley,

Call it what you will, it is dangerous to your marriage. I know you are still hurt about what Myrta did. I know she has NOT truly "gotten it" and probably will never. I know you still wonder how she could come back and say she loves you. I know OM showing up at her home AGAIN, and yet you keeping the secret of her affair to protect HER, is eating at you.

I know many things Stanley, but one of the things I KNOW better than you, is that you are on a slippery slope with this interaction no matter what you think or justify. I was a batchelor for a very long time, and I know how such interactions can go.

I have never had such an interaction as a married man for one simple reason and it was not about will power. I have specific actions I will do and will NOT do with regard to females and one of the NOT DO ones is exactly what you have done. Why? Because it can easily escalate into an EA or more.

You want to punish Myrta...divorce her. You want to start over with someone new...divorce Myrta. You cannot have your cake and eat too. Get rid of Myrta and then get in the game, or stop this stuff and decide you WANT to be married to Myrta and commit to it...FULLY.

She still has work to do, I know it, you know it, she knows it. She may continue to avoid intimacy with regards to sharing with you her thoughts, and such. She may decide to really not be so defensive and let you into her heart as you want to be.

But, one thing she was RIGHT about is blowing the whistle on this behavior or yours. I'll take your word it was NOT an EA, but frankly it doesn't matter. The behavior was NOT consistent with a good marriage, or an honest husband. If this woman is YOUR friend, she needs to be Myrta's friend as well. But, Stanley! Myrta is right on this, listen to her.

Admit your error and show her HOW she should have handled what she did to you. I am not equating the two actions, because frankly this is not about "yes but..." Your actions are wrong and they are wrong without regard to what Myrta has or has not done.

Time for some humble pie my friend. Take a healthy dose and be the man I know you are. You won't regret it, that much I can promise you.

God Bless,

JL

Mrs W:

Going NC will be easy because there is no withdrawal. I confided in her about Myrta's affair. She knew the details because she read my whole story in MB. This lady and I have no emotional connection. This was very much like me talking to JL---that is correct. I have also said things about Myrta to JL in the past. This did not feel any different.

However, what I did is wrong.

I think that sending letters alerting husbands about affairs where there was none is not correct. However, my wife is welcomed to write her and ask questions.

Maybe, I don't get it, but I still think flirting is worse.

The other issue is that I find myself vulnerable to an affair even though I feel I can control what I do. Luckily I have learned the anatomy of affairs. That is another curse (or a blessing) for us BH-------we know too much to keep the train going.

Ok Stanley...I will take you at your word that you don't have feelings for the email pal...I do think it is important that she know that you don't wish to continue contact with her because doing so would be at a detriment to Myrta and your marriage...Myrta should see this email and get to hit the send button, JMHO...

I admire your admitting that this was wrong...I believe that could go a long way with Myrta...See your humaness Stanley and see hers...

Yes, flirting is bad, but this could have potentially been worse...Why? Because you see the flirting as bad, you DON'T see the email relationship and the intimacy being created as bad, in fact, you appear not to see it at all...THAT is EXACTLY how an A starts-you honestly don't see it coming...What you don't see is the most harmful...REALLY...

Good Luck to You Both...

Mrs. W

JL=== The affair in question is finished...so there is nothing to expose to my family. The affair finished over two years ago. The people involve in the affair and my husband know what happened. I told my mother and my dad that the OM was not a good person . I told my mother that the OM want it more from me than a friendship. I told her that I want it to stay away from him and they should too. We dont live in their country, so is not like he comes to visit me every day. Yes, he has called my mom and talked to her. My mother likes him, and thinks he is a good person. He appears to her as a saint that is only looking for her well being. He works with medical related things, so she thinks is good to have him as a friend. I will not tell my parents two years plus after the fact that I had an affair with him. If OM happens to open his mouth, then I will state my guilt to her. There is no affair going on, so exposure is kind of unneccessary.

I tell EVERYTHING to Stanley...I cannot say the same thing about him. He was having secrets about his pen pal and woman in the office. Yes, he does want to punish mem it does not matter how I am with him. He has not forgiven me after more than two years. We do everything as a normal couple, we go on vacations, we have regular sex, we go to the movies, dinner, talk,etc,etc. Obviously is not enough for him. What do I have to do for him to be satisfy??? Undo the past??? I cannot do that...it happened ,cannot be erase.

I am not defensive AT ALL with him. I tell him whats on mymind, what bothers me, what hurts me.. Most of the time he thins is silly and not important..But if he says something I should take it as something sacred and of the upmost importance. Do I deserve to be treat it like this, because I had an affair over two years ago? Maybe I do, but is getting old and I am getting tired of working my butt for him to be happy and not seeing fruits.

Maybe he does want a divorce, and is looking for ways to make me do the first step. Maybe he does want another woman, another life anew...maybe, I dont know..Only he knows this. Maybe his e-mail friend knows what he wants.

I share with him everything that comes to my mind. I am detail oriented, have him on my mind when I go to places and see things that he will enjoy or appreciate. I tell him everything that my mom says about OM so there are no secrets about that anymore. Can I say the same about him JL? I sdont think so..

I appreciate your post , as usual...you are a good man, with very sound advise to two lost souls!!!

Myrta

Stanley/Myrta... this man came to see you two months ago?????????????????????????????????????
And yiou guys still can't see fit to put an end to this disaster!?
As far as the current communications that Stanley is having... I am not going to call it an A. I have to take him at his word that there were conversations that should not have taken place and that would have infuriated me to no end. I think it is important for Myrna to have a conversation with this woman and to let it proceed from there.

And to all of you out there that continue to harp on their being no differnce between what Stanley did on his computer... via email... no confessions of love,desire, longing... to having him use his mouth and penis on another woman, I think is way off base.

What he did was wrong... but let's give the man a bit of benefit of the doubt until Myrta talks to the woman. If she says he was coming on to her... or is evasive in any way that makes Myrta uncomfortable... then that is another story all together. His actions were clearly hurtful, childish and insensitive... but it could be that it was not an EA... it could be exactly what he says. Do we have any reason at this point to doubt Stanley's word??? Bad judgement could be all that his guilty of.

Ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 If you cannot bring yourself to do what you should for NC... then at least have the decency to TELL (not ask) your mother to NEVER mention that man to you again. Is that too tough for you Myrta?

I wnt to my country on July 3erd, because my mom was having pacemaker surgery. The day that I was coming back to my home in Maryland, the OM showed up in my house. He stayed for 2 minutes talking to my sister and me while he was out and we were in the house. Can I control his actions? No....I can't!!

He saw how unconfortable I was and was very ill at ease, while talking to us. He left really fast and have not heard anything else since then!!

I guess I could do that,,,,,tell my mom, not to mention OM again. Sure, I can do that!! And by the way I am being pretty decent.

Thanks