I was just wondering if there is anybody out there that have been both the BS and the FWS?? And if so, do you have a mixture of conflicting emotions?? And what are the steps you are taking or have taken to work thru them??

Unfortunatley, I have had the experince of being the BW and the FWW. Long story short...and without going into too much detail right now...husband had 3 previous A's (always a one night stand--alcohol involved--and SUPPOSEDLY never sex). One in 1993, another in 2000 and the last this past August 2005. Then in 2004 I had a 2 month long EA with co-worker and we ended up exchanging a one-time kiss. NOTHING more!!

But since, we have been gradually getting worse. It seems like we are always playing the "blame game" and accusing the other of theirs A being more hurtful, etc. instead of trying to find the missing element to our marriage that may be causing the pattern.

We intend...husband a little relectant...but finally agreed...to read 'Surviving An Affair'; 'Fall In Love Stay In Love' and I may even purchase 'His Needs Her Needs'. And I think we need to do the EN and LB questionares BUT any other words of wisdom of what steps should be taken when each of you have been both the BS and the FWS would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks In Advance,
Fullofdoubt

Hi Fullof doubt-
I'm both. And I'm new to recovery so I don't have all the answers for you. But I'm copying a response from Just Learning that he posted on my thread that is relevant to you:

*************
"What you cannot know yet but you will if you remain here is that frankly most of us don't care what you are. The idea is to rebuild marriages. The designation if you will is simply to let people know where your healing is coming from not as a way of denigrating you. The BS and the WS have different issues as YOU WELL KNOW.

It is too bad this site didn't exist some years ago when your H was the WS. But, it did not.

So my question to you, is if you ran the world how would you marriage be? How would your H act? What would he do and not do? How would you like him to love you? How would you like to love him?

I am very interested in your answers to these questions.

We all know that step one in rebuilding the marriage is ending the affair, which includes NC.

After that the dealing with things is really very very similar between the BS and the WS: Communications is major, changing perspectives is big, empathy is really useful.

You see your H is going to have to jump into this as well."
**************

Anyway, I think JL is right. The process is pretty similar once the affairs are over and recovery begins.

Good Luck to you and your husband! Keep posting please- we can help each other.

090886

Try this....

when the recovery is complicated and messy

instead of discussing emotions and feelings and "what happened when you did this" ...

try

discussing the principles and concepts that you would like to ~apply~ to your marriage to make it more enjoyable for both of you

have you ever had such a discussion?

Pep

Instead of "mixed emotions" ....

I am both a FWW and a BS three x's over. Our MC once told us that the most important key to healing and getting to the heart of the issues is to avoid the "who do was worse" scenario. Works very well.

Thanks everybody for your responses!! Sorry it took so long for me to reply. I have still been around, just doing alot more reading of posts than actually posting.

Things seem to be getting better...or at least on the right track. Hubby and I have both completed and discussed our 'Emotional Needs' and 'Love Busters' questionnaires. And I have just finished reading "Surviving An Affair" and getting ready to start reading "Fall In Love Stay In Love" Hubby is supposed to be starting "SAA" since I am now finished with it.

We even seem to be getting along better...less 'Love Busters' and trying to meet more "Emotional Needs"!!

BUT here is my problem....as in my last post, I am still having conflicting feelings/emotions regarding the fact that I was always the BS for the first 13 years of our marriage and now after all of that time I am now also a WS!!
And to be honest I am so confused. My husband and I both say that we want to make this work, and I truly believe in my heart that we do. But I am having such a hard time trusting. I have trouble trusting that he will never cheat again (he has had 3 ONS druken A's that SUPPOSEDLY never led to sex) and they have been all been spread out within our 15 years of marriage. So you see, I feel that I have had 'forgiven' then was given a false sense of security by it not happening for a few years that BAM it happens again, then again!!

So even though we are both committed to recovery. And he claims that he has all trust in me and that I will never do anything again (I had a 2 month EA with co-worker that ended up with a one-time kiss) I feel that I can't say the same!!

Why can he be so sure?? And I be so un-sure?? Why can he trust?? And I can't?? I am so confident that I will never do anything again, so why can't I give him that same respect and be just as confident that he won't??

UGGHHHH!!!! Calgon take me away.....

Fullofdoubt

Does your H still drink? I would recommend he stay away from alcohol.

Hi Fullofdoubt,

I don't know that we've ever talked, but I could have written your post six years ago, when I first came to MB.

My first marriage did not survive, and though I'm married to my second husband now (he was a rebound marriage - and I love him dearly)... the truth of the matter is that my first H and I did NOT do all that we could have to save our marriage. So, I tell a cautionary tale around here... and I would like to tell you a few things that *may* help you.

A tiny bit of history: My first H cheated with several women in the 7th year of our marriage and was a terrible flirt all throughout. He also said (like your H) that he didn't "do anything"... however, after my affair (several months of emotional attachment and one ugly hop in the sack with a man I worked with)... my then-H came clean, that he'd had oral sex with two of the women, as well as everything *but* the final deed. And in my case, he cheated again, just to get me back, because he was allowed to cheat, but I wasn't. We separated several times over about a year's time, and I was here at MB trying very hard. He was here, too, but didn't hold a lot of stock on the Harley concepts. For example, (and not surprisingly) he hated the concept of Radical Honesty. Oh, I could go on and on.

So, I filed for divorce and met someone new (my current H)before the divorce was final. (Big mistake - don't do that)

Alright, so what do I have to offer you?

Good question <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Here's my response: In these years since the divorce, my ex-H and I have talked to each other as we rarely were able to during our marriage. Our marriage had always had communication problems (as in: I talk a ton, he was the strong, silent type). He has learned to talk, I have learned to listen. And so we have talked and listened and learned a few things about what broke down our marriage.

So my advice to you is this: Whether he cheated first or last or in-between, and even though you "only" cheated once -- he is hurt. Hear that. His affairs do not eclipse yours. Take responsibility for your affair, make your amends, and allow him to do the same regarding his affairs.

Trust will come s.l.o.w.l.y. for both of you, but yes, I think it will take longer for you because of the multiple affairs over the years. I totally understand and have loads of sympathy for you on that one. It will take as long as it takes. Don't try to rush it.

I will tell you that in 1993, my (now ex-)H and I had a marriage renewal. I only share this to say that it took about five years after his affairs to truly trust him again.

Finally, be gentle with your recovery, your H and yourself. This is a messy business.

Best wishes...

I have just read ff's response to you... it's a good question. Most of what I've just said to you is a moot point if he is still actively drinking (and not in a program like AA that addresses his addiction)...

Good Afternnon FF and NBII!!

To answer your question FF and NBII, NO he has not quit drinking!! Of course after every A, he claimed that he would and never has. To be honest, I question quite a bit of he is an alcoholic or not. I was raised with a alcoholic father so you would think I would be an expert at the signs, but I guess since he does and acts differently thatn my Father did when he was drinking that I tend to question it...

Granted, he has 'cut down' after every A and stopped going out without me, only drinking at home, etc. BUT somehow he always finds his way back to those drunken ONS. So this has made me wonder if he is an alcoholic, not to mention the fact that his drinking has led to many other problems during our 15 year marraige.(ie him getting into fights, etc.) So it isn't just his infedelity that has made me question this...

I have talked to him many times about this subject and recommend that he quit...but it has always been with no avail!!

NBII I wanted to thank you for the encouraging words and advice!! I do admit that I need to try to let go of the fact that I am trying to 'justify" my A with his A's!! And like you, after my EA and kiss, that is when my husband had A #3. So yes, he always got revenge from my act of revenge. So as you can see, I fear that this will be a viscious cycle unless we can break it now!!

So your advice is very much needed advice for the very fact that if we keep playing that 'blame game" and put more concentration on whos was worse or more painful, or the 'I wouldn't of done it if you hadn't done it' then we will never be able to fully put our energy into recovery!! I guess it is just hard, I guess I will always feel like the victim!! And even though I know this is terribly wrong, it was the role that I was used to playing...Does that make sense??

ANYWAY, I am rambling now. But thanks again both of you for the encouragement and words of wisdom!!

Oh by the way, I hope all is well with you both!! I know this journey is a hard and lonely one...

Thanks Again, Fullofdoubt

Need help!! I am SO confused!! In the past few weeks, I thought my husband and I were on the same track as far as recovery goes. We received the books 'SAA" and 'FILSIL' from Dr. Harley(which we recieved after I emailed the Harleys and asked for advice) and we both seemed to be commited to Dr. Harley's theories.

However, since receiving the books, I have sompleted reading 'SAA' and am 1/2 thru 'FILSIL'. But my husband has yet starting reading either of them!! We both did fill out the LB and EN questionairres, but when I asked him about the reading of the books, he continuely said that he would read them. But after me 'nagging' him about reading them, he finally admitted that he didn't want to read them because he figured things won't change anyway...so why bother!!

I know this may not seem like a tramatic thing, but in my eyes it is just a sympol of his lack of wanting to try!!

Which is were the confusion comes in, when we try to talk about our relationship. My husband is the one that INSIST that we are fine, that neither of us 'crossed any major lines' and that he wants this marriage--always has always will!! But his actions speak otherwise. Where I am usually the one that try to be more realistic and see that we have both made some major mistakes, that is we don't try to make some major changes that odds are that we will repeat past mistakes, etc. And as much as I hate to admit it is usually me saying that maybe we need to 'split up'.

So why am I the one that is trying so hard to fix this?? And he is so 'laid back'?? Claiming everything is 'fine'....What do you do when your spouse claims that they want the marriage more than anything but yet they don't want to make changes to do so??

I am SO afraid that if there aren't some major changes made on both of our parts then, history will repeat itself. But what do you do when your the only one trying to make those changes, etc.??

Any advise welcome....

Fullofdoubt