I just read this as part of your post to Hurtingless...



Is this something you are able to discuss further?

I'm curious to know if there was an "Oprah AHA" moment, or was it gradual? Was there a definite difference in your bahaviour after you reached this point and in the recovery of your marriage? And, did your BS do anything consciously or inadvertantly to help you reach this point?

Shaden

Hi Shaden,

It was a gradual process for me.

I first had to get through withdrawal, and the very early stages of recovery with H.

There were four people in my life that knew about the A as it was going on. My two best friends from childhood (who lived in different states) and my parents (I told them at a point when I wanted to end the A because I knew I couldn't do it on my own. I wasn't ready to tell H yet.)

I had several local girlfriends who I use to get together with and talk "husband problems." I use to say awful things about my H to them, all to justify my A that they knew nothing about. All my friends felt sorry for me (retch.)

As things were improving with H and I, and I started taking full responsibility for my actions, I felt very uncomfortable returning to my local friends who I said such awful things about H. I couldn't face them, because I had been so selfish and such a liar. So I decided to fix the situation by confessing to them. I wanted to clear H's name. I wanted to let them know that all of those things I said about H were my fault, and I was not really addressing our M because I was involved with OM. I didn't care if they weren't friends with me anymore, I needed to stick up for H and redeem my dignity.

They are still my friends.

I also wrote apology letters to my two childhood friends who I dragged through the A with me. They did not agree with what I was doing, but they always listened and were there for me, even when they were disgusted. My A REALLY hurt these long-term friendships I had, and I will forever be sorry for this. I apologized for being so selfish and one-sided in the friendship, and my actions were wrong. What I said about H was wrong.

They are still my friends also, albeit not as innocent as it once was.

I also apologized to my parents, in person. They, of course, are still my parents (lol.)

During our recovery, H showed such strength, patience and love... such honesty and openness... it moved me in a way I cannot explain. I felt like I had been touched by God. It made me realize what a fool I had been, and understand what true love really means.

I had to correct the err of my ways. For H, myself, my loved ones, and God.

I also apologized to OMW in a letter about a month ago...

I also exposed the A, because she did not know.

H was not happy about this, but I am glad that I did it.

I'm just sad that I hurt H by doing so...

Thanks, Katie Mae, for responding with such sincerety.

When I first discovered this site I had the privilege of reading the post about a BS being a lighthouse. That post had a huge affect on me and I've tried over the last year to do this. A couple of times I've slipped and almost left my marriage... both times it set back recovery, but I continue to hold onto that thought of being the lighthouse.

My FWW has had no "real" contact in over a year, now. (We have seen OM at our church and he wrote his own NC letter to my wife), but sometimes I still struggle with the idea that there needs to be more in our relationship and marriage.

I don't know if your H read about the lighthouse, but it sounds like he knew what to do on his own.

It also sounds like you have made some awesome progress with your own life... you are both very fortunate to have each other. Sometimes we take a rocky road to learn important lessons and to learn the value of what we have... but the most important thing is that we learn it.

Thank you... your words have helped. I was going through a stage where I was doubting again... you have convinced me to stay the course by showing love, patience and strength.

Things are going fairly well... but I thought they were pre-A. I no longer want fairly well... I want fantastic. This is a long process and should be worth it in the end.

As to your relationship with your friends... I think you learned just how valuable they are. Relationships need to build an intimacy even within friendships... to know that we are all human and will make mistakes, but can still love and support each other. Not only have you gone to a different level of intimacy with your H, but probably also with your friends.

My W wrote an apology letter to the OMW a few months ago, but still has not sent it. After she received the NC letter from him, we weren't sure if we should rock the boat or not with another contact. OM did have the opportunity to apologize to me over the phone and in person... he even put in his letter to my W that he could never be the man that I was. But she has not apologized to OMW. In your opinion, is it still worthwhile for her to do?

Shaden

I think so Shaden

Our OM has been told/written to Not Contact us but I would personally not mind receiving his apology and granting him forgiveness. Actually having not received it kinda leaves something out there I see as a looming potential. I'd be a little relieved to receive it and close that loose end.

Seeking forgiveness is the right thing to do. Getting it would be nice. OMW is likely not quite ready to give forgiveness yet but I can't see anything wrong with doing right.

Obviously, Mrs. Shaden should be the one to make the call to send it but the "no contact" excuse/reason should not stop her. Don't push her to send it. It must be from her heart. It's not your loose end, but hers.

Best wishes,

Mr. Wondering

And Further to what Mr W said, not only should she apologise, but she should ask for forgiveness. My wife did that - hardest thing she has ever done but she did it. No response from OM'sW unfortunately but it helped my wife to do that. I am sure it would help your wife too.

One other point - why do you still attend the same church as OM?

KM... you rock. Even though you are a FWW... any man would be lucky to now call you his W.

BK... at first we stayed away, but then we tried attending sporadically from Christmas to about May... family and friends go there, etc.. But we have decided no more. It was too uncomfortable for all of us and for anyone there who knew about the situation. Plus I read on here how some FWS seemed to return to the fog after a while being out. I don't want to chance that.

Even though my W has attended that church her whole life and has family there, she is ok with whatever I decide on this issue. Unfortunately we have not yet chosen a new church... but over the summer its a little more difficult.

Shaden

Besides, the pastor from the church just moved across the street from us. That's another reason to change churches... or move again. LOL.

Shaden

Mr. W & BK

thanks for the input. I agree to not "push her", but if it ever comes up again, I'll know how to answer. It did help me that OM apologized, even if I'm not entirely sure how real the apology was.

Shaden

Thanks for the support, all...

H did a great Plan A without knowing that's what he was doing. When he started reading SAA, he said, "hey, I think I'm doing this Plan A thing!" It was instinctual for him, for some reason.

While my H was the shining example of Plan A excellence, the truth is I am at this point in my life now not only because of his patience and support, but because of the efforts I've put into self-examining myself. I'm what's known as an Adult Child and I didn't know this until I started my recovery. Now that I understand the family stuff that influences my behaviors, I can work to change them. This is changing my outlook on things and making me a stronger person, although I am in a constant state of pain and lonliness as I work through these issues. I may seem like I have it together, but I don't really feel like I do. I do know that I am making progress, and I am so lucky that my H forgave me (and he has... even though I feel like I don't deserve it still.)

Shaden, I agree with Mr. W. If your W is comfortable sending the letter... if she thinks it is important to her recovery... then I don't think it's a breach of NC. Just as long as she states "this is the last time you will ever hear from me." If your W feel the need to do this, I think it's okay. Since OM apologized to you as well, it's okay.

I also echo BK's question... why do you both still attend the same church? How often do you see them? That must be very uncomfortable.

I understand what you mean about wanting more from your M... right now H and I feel a bit disconnected. I think this is an unfortunate part of recovery. We just went through my letter to OMW that he did not approve of (he felt I betrayed him again) and we just gave up our beloved dog for adoption. We've talked about going back to MC if things don't start feeling better soon.

H does not come here, he is not interested. He supports me in being here though.

MEDC, I appreciate your comments, but I don't feel like I deserve them (more work in therapy for me, lol!)

Katie,

Would he read HNHN? SAA? How about the MB home study audi course? It's very good.

BK

BK,

He did read SAA... I have HNHN... he hasn't read it, but I did and we've talked about many of the concepts in there.

He's in the middle of his master's thesis right now and I don't know if it would be appropriate to throw another book at him right now, lol.

I haven't heard about the audi course... is it expensive?

$195 - worth it

Katie,

Thanks for your honesty and insight. I have a question for you. When you were telling your friends bad things about your husband, did you believe they were true at the time? Or did you know in your heart you were kind of blowing them out of proportion to hedge your bets with OM?

I know most straying spouses talk about their spouse's shortcomings. I think what I'm trying to figure out is this: In an affair, does the straying spouse think like A or B?

A. I want OP so I must make spouse out to be a loser that can't be changed.

or

B. I view spouse as a loser that won't change so I went looking for a replacement.

Hmm Why is it A OR B. A and B could also be the case and it could be different in every circumstance anyway.

Kahuna,

Yes, I know either/or/both, each case is different, etc. What I'm wondering is that when they are saying mean things about us do they (waywards) believe it? Or do they know they are lying and making things up to justify their behavior?

I think at the time they believe it. They have to believe it to be able to justify their henious acts

(shudder)

For me, it was a little of both. I talked about the issues that H and I had in our M that were upsetting to me... things that were bothering me pre-A, things that instead of addressing with H directly, I internalized and jumped into the arms of OM instead.

I use to think...and this is insane... that my A with OM was completely seperate from my M. Two different relationships. I use to complain about my M to get "support" in case H and I ended up seperating over our "issues" (which, in my mind, had absolutely nothing to do with OM.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I was a sick person. Three months into my A, OM told me he would never leave his W. In less than a year, I knew OM wasn't my "soulmate" but clung to the relationship because I didn't want to lose him, eventhough we would never leave our spouses to be together. I continued a relationship that had no future, was absolutely soul-sick, for two more years, while I did NOTHING for my M but complain about it to anyone who would listen. I was beyond messed up. I was a complete failure as a human being.

I'm beyond blessed that I have a man in my life like my H, who looked beyond his own pain to save me from myself. I still feel undeserving of his love, but am working on this.

Good question S05. Right now my WW has been stacking up the problems shes had with me pre and during the A. She keeps saying - you were this or you never that. So Katie, was your H that bad or did you make him out to be that bad?
thanks for your insight though.
M2L