I don't mean to be rude and I do appreciate the help that I do get on here but I have posted a few times with very little response.

post

post

I'm losing control and losing my mind and quite frankly, I'm not sure that I get the MB princples completely. I guess we are in the withdrawal stage although I get the feeling that WBF may still be in contact with OW. I have asked him and he completely denies it and I have no way of knowing otherwise. We have separate cell phone accounts through a company in which detailed billing is not an option (flat fee for unlimited calling). We do not have a home phone and if he did call her, he could easily just delete the call from his cell phone. He has learned to cover his tracks very thoroughly in this process. The A was with a co-worker and he longer works there but I have been checking his work email daily to ensure no messages. Today, I cannot get in. I don't know if the employer has shut down the email account or if WBF just changed the password.

Aside from that, I am completely miserable with the way things are going right now. I am dying to have affection and love and closeness with him and he is just not having any of that. The advice that I've received so far is that withdrawal can take up to six months and things will probably not get any better until then. I don't have that kind of patience. I don't know if I handle this for a few more days, let alone six months.



I don't know what that means. What is normalizing the relationship? Our relationship was great
and then it was miserable. What is normal in that?



Okay, if we don't R talk and we don't A talk, then there is literally no conversation at all.We have not had more than a one sentence exchange (small talk) in 3 days.Conversation is in the top 5 EN on both of our lists, yet we don't have anything to say to eachother.



Doing what? Seriously, what are we supposed do to do with this time? He seems quite content with the way things are between us and has no desire to force us into any connection what so ever. He just wants to sit around constantly and watch TV (things I have no interest in at all)and could care less whether I'm there with him or not. As to what drew us together in the first place, I have no idea. I think he was drawn to me because I was young and hot (I am 13 years younger than him and was 50lbs. lighter). He also somehow got the false perception that I used to be independent and have somehow lost that along the way. Sadly, I have never been independent, In fact, I
have Dependent Personality Disorder.



Plan A is simple since I am not saying or doing anything at all except sitting around being miserable. I try to hide but can't always. He knows that I am miserable and is just as clueless as I am as to what to do about it. Deposit love units. How? I feel it is virtually impossible to do so right now. This process is withdrawing love units from his account in my love bank so fast that by the time he is done pining over OW or whatever his problem is, I will want nothing to do with him and we will be in the exact situation that led to the A in the first place.

I love him very much and I want nothing more than for us to be in love and have a great relationship and get married someday. I know this takes time but I am just not seeing how that is going to happen this way. I am ready to throw in the towel. On MB principles, relationship, hopes, dreams, everything. We are both seeing ICs and I feel they are more detrimantal to out relationship than helpful. To top it all off, we have to be out of our house ASAP with no money, no job, and no place to go. I don't want to give up just yet but I am not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm hoping that I can get the support that I come here for or else I am left to my own devices.

Hang,

A few things create a signature with your sitch.

You are the BS he is the FWS or WS? Any kids? your ages etc.

When did you find out.

The reason for this is people can jump on and help.

the other thing is just go with one thread unless you are asking entirely different questions and bump it if you need more help.

All you have to do is open up your post type in bump and then hit post.

Are you able to get a job?

Hi hanginthere...

sorry you haven't receieved the help here that you were expecting... but I do see some value in some of the advice you have quoted... maybe some further discussion and clarification is needed.


Firstly... you would be the first person I've read that feels that Plan A is simple. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> IMO, it is one of the hardest, but most rewarding things you will do in your life. But sitting around being miserable is not Plan A.

there are different aspects of a good Plan A... not LBing as you've mentioned, depositing into the lovebank, etc.. But an equally important part of Plan A is growing yourself. Sitting around being miserable is doing nothing for yourself. This is where it's hard. You want nothing more than to spend quality time with your partner, and you feel miserable when this isn't happening. This is your first assignment, IMO. Find some things that you can do that make you happy. Go exercise, read, take a dog for a walk, take a course, meet with some friends for coffee... whatever you can do to stop being needy and miserable. Do you think that is what attracted him to you in the first place? And, take WBF out of the picture... is that the kind of person you imagine yourself to be?

You can invite him to join you in these things... he probably won't at first... but maybe he'll see the fun you are having and will choose to want to be with you. If not... you can still enjoy life and become a stronger more independent person.

You said that the advice given may take up to 6 months for withdrawal to improve... and that you do not have the patience for this. And then you said...



Which is it? Marriage is a much longer journey than six months. If you love him and he is worth it, than this is a small price to pay. Especially if you take this time to become a better, more independent person yourself. If the six months is too much, then I would suggest that you rethink your plans.

I don't mean to sound negative because I do believe this situation can be turned around... but you need to start looking at what you can do... not just putting all responsibility on your BF. You cannot change him... only yourself.

I'm sure you will get more help. This place has been a huge help for me. Don't give up yet... keep asking questions and searching for answers. This is not just a time to help your relationship, but to learn about yourself as well.

Shaden

R U working with an MC. One who is familar with MB principals? Have you read the books: His needs/Her needs and surviving an affair (both by Harley).

L.

HNT,

Have you been reading about Love Busters (LBs) and eliminating them from yourself?

I ask because this paragraph:

"He seems quite content with the way things are between us and has no desire to force us into any connection what so ever. He just wants to sit around constantly and watch TV (things I have no interest in at all)and could care less whether I'm there with him or not. As to what drew us together in the first place, I have no idea. I think he was drawn to me because I was young and hot (I am 13 years younger than him and was 50lbs. lighter). He also somehow got the false perception that I used to be independent and have somehow lost that along the way. Sadly, I have never been independent, In fact, I have Dependent Personality Disorder."

Is one HUGE DJ...to WBF and to yourself. Learning about Disrespectful Judgments...finding your beliefs that assumptions and mindreading is good...and replacing that with the belief that relationships are based in respect, will do you well in understanding you are wholly in control of yourself and no one else.

You were getting good posters (the pros) and I didn't see you answer the last poster on your Withdrawal thread...

People are here to help...going to be frustrating posting to you when you don't have the ability to find out if there is contact...is OW married? BF? Why not expose? Same for NC letter? If you choose to get in the way of the consequences for their affair...you'll be paying for what wasn't yours. Exposing to her family, your family, his family...living in truth is your choice...not his.

And as for DPD...and the smothering references...him freaking out...returning...not sure of NC...use your resources to find out...do what it takes to know truth...you can do that. Read the books out there by the Harleys, read "Facing Love Addiction" and "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend...work on yourself...that's Plan A...being authentic, a reality bringer...and you can't do that if you aid in covering up their affair.

Get clear on why you are where you are right now...not married, having children (same as the woman he was with before, yet you believe him about him not wanting to marry her and making children with her, anyway)...because you are her, you know...not married...you say it is financial reasons...could be exactly what he told his previous woman...

Did you meet him and begin dating while he was still involved with her, btw?

LA

(copied over from one of the other threads, the one about withdrawal)

Truth is, he had to become somewhat emotionally invested in OW in order to "close the deal", if you know what I mean.

Yeah, he might have really allowed what took place at the end to sour his feelings for her, but alas, he cannot just turn them off.

He'll probably be in withdrawal for 6-10 weeks, maybe as long as six months, but it's typically less for a man than a woman. The good news is he will slowly withdraw, so long as there is no contact between them (so remain vigilant!).

The bad news is withdrawal is ever so slow to take place, it's almost invisible. It's like watching grass grow.... if you stand and watch nothing appears to be happening, but if you look away for a week, it will have made measurable progress.

Take this time to try to normalize your relationship with him. Minimize the R talk, and try to begin spending the Harley recommended 15 hours a week together, finding those things about each other that drew you together in the first place. Don't have a nice evening doing something together then "spoil" it by boiling over into a heated R talk that "erases" the good the evening spawned.

Exercise Plan A, make LoveBank deposits, limit R talks and keep them cordial, not heated, remain vigilant about contact and don't expect him to begin "connecting" with you until he's over halfway withdrawn. Time and patience are your best friends right now!

Best wishes,
SD

"What do I have to do to get some help around here?"

Simple:

Grab a phone, call this number:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html


(I assume since you are already seeing a bad IC you can afford, or your insurance will cover, a good one.)

I'm not really sure how to do the signature but I will try.

I'm sure I could get a job but seeing as we need to move out of town like tomorrow, I don't really see what good that would do.

Shaden, thank you for your advice and I don't mean to be a negative nelly but here I am.



I really try to distract myself but I can't seem to find anything to make me feel better. My friends have their own lives and I think they are all sick of me and my situation. In the past when I have tried to do things to forget about him, I end up being more miserable missing him and wondering what he's doing without me and rushing back to him.



That is not the kind of person I would like to be but I have always been that way. I cling to whatever man will give me the opportunity and that becomes my life. I have dependent personality disorder. I know that no one here can help me with that and my IC refuses to even acknowledge it. She is free and I have to take what I can get. I don't have medical insurance.



He will gladly partake in anything that allows him to avoid spending anytime alone with me but we both know that I will be miserable and he will end up having more fun than me.



I am the one rearing and ready to move on with our relationship, he is not. I know that I cannot change that but if he is comfortable with the way things are right now and doesn't want to change, then I should move on, right?
What can I do to make him want to change it? I know that sitting around being miserable and crying constantly is not going to help. I am doing my best to grit my teeth and bear this misery. The only way for me to focus on me and only me, is to not focus on the relationship at all. By that I mean to say "forget him" and plan to move on with my life without him. We have literally a week at most before we have to move out of state where all we are going to have is eachother. I've tried to tell myself "stop trying to rebuild the relationship for now and just work on building a friendship" I cannot even do that right now. I don't even want to be his friend with things like this. There is nothing but silence between us. Very uncomfortable and awkward silence for me and what seems to be extraordinarily comfortable silence for him. I am taking antidepressants but they don't seem to be doing much for me.

We are not yet seeing a MC because we are not married and I don't have medical insurance and his will be running out soon, too. We will have to wait at least until we move and he gets a job and more insurance.

I feel like if we can just find a way to enjoy eachother, the love will come back. After six months of this the only thing I'm going to have is anger and resentment. How is this supposed to work?

Also, he has been asking to read my posts as well as my journal I have been writing in at home. I won't let him because that would be considered R talk wouldn't it?

---------------
BS(Me)-24
WBF-37
together 6 years
children- 2 yr old
D-Day- 05/15/06 EA/PA 5 months
WBF moved out 5/16/06
moved back in 7/12/06
LC 7/26/06

It sounds to me like you are in a HUGE mess. Fixing the relationship needs to be your secondary priority. Finding a place to live, taking care of yourself and daughter, and getting a job need to be your first.

If your anti-D's aren't working, speak to who ever prescribed them. It is very common for one kind not to work, while another one will work.

Are you moving out of state to escape his child support obligation?

LA, thank you for your response. Obviously, MB is just not clicking with me yet. If he cannot tell me what he's thinking and I cannot assume, then am I not to think? Not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to get it. OW is not married, no BF that I know of. My guess is that anyone in her life could care less. Who could I tell? I have mentioned in a previous post that WBF fears putting A on paper as in NC letter because it could possibly get in the way of him finding other employment. Those people (OW and former employer) are vindictive like that. Thank you for the book titles, I will pick them up as soon as I can. I don't know what the real reason for him not marrying me is. It could be anything. He and his ex were split up for about a yr. before we met and lived separately for about 8 months before. He had dated an enormous amount of people or ONS I should say between her and I but nothing serious, so yes, I was a real threat to her because that meant to her that it was REALLY over.

SD,

Thank you for your response in my both my previous thread and as well as this one. I thought I had responded to it before but if I hadn't, my apologies but I had addressed most of it in this post.

Aphelion,

I'm seeing a bad IC because she is free. I have no insurance and not a penny to my name.

believer,

I am a HUGE MESS! We are moving out of state to escape the A and terrible memories of it that our surroundings are covered in. We are trying to get as far away from it as physically possible. I don't want to drive past the Motel he had his A in every time I leave my house, etc... He has supported me financially the entire time we have been together so I am not concerned with CS. Unless you meant CS obligations for his other kids, then no. He has always and has every intention to care of his children. Regardless of where we live. The point is, it's do or die time.



By saying this are you implying that I let him and the relationship go, move in with relatives, collect my child support and put further stress and anxiety on myself by figuring out how we (my daughter and I)are going to live?
What good is any of that going to do, really?

If we are leaving together than how do I just go on about my life like he and our relationship doesn't exist?

--------------
BS(Me)-24
WBF-37
together 6 years
children- 2 yr old
D-Day- 05/15/06 EA/PA 5 months
WBF moved out 5/16/06
moved back in 7/12/06
LC 7/26/06

Also,

can't get anti-D's changed...no insurance.

asking others here....

i read in a post above that her boyfriend wants to read her posts

wouldn't it be a good idea for her to bring him here?

I'm not saying anything about the relationship. But your daughter deserves a stable home. I don't know your state, but usually there is welfare to help get you through.

Have you ever worked?

believer, Yes! I agree that my daughter needs a stable home. Yes, welfare probably could help with that but that process will take up to six months to get any assistance. We need to leave now. We don't have six months. We do not have out Aug. rent. Hopefully an interview that BF has Fri. will go extraordinarily well and also we are getting ready to sell almost everything we own. Either way, we need to leave. I appreciate the concern. I have the same concerns myself. I will make sure that my daughter is taken care of no matter what it takes. I have worked before. That is where we met. I also worked at the same company that he just left until I had my daughter. Then, I wanted to stay home with her. Ironically, the OW replaced me in the company and my BF.

It is obvious to me that I am comming across as a psycho. i am not denying that I am. I guess the help I am looking for is this. Now, is not the time to work on our relationship. How will I/we know when that time is? Will he tell me? Should I ask periodically? Will it be completely obvious? What if a year or so goes by and it is not obvious? How do we proceed from there? What is going to make this relationship work? Is it just supposed to happen? How does the process from here to there work? How should things be in the mean time? How do I keep my needing to be close and his needing not to be from withdrawing love units? She I just ignore him and pretend he's not there? If I do this will he just jump into the game when he is ready? Should I try to distance myself from him emotionally in case he never gets there? Should we never discuss our relationship? How will we know when it's progressing? Should I play nonchalant and put a fake smile on my face even when I am miserable? Should I act lovingly toward him like the way I want thing to be eventually? Even if this doesn't get me anywhere? What should I do? What can I do? Can someone please explain the process more thouroghly?

--------------
BS(Me)-24
WBF-37
together 6 years
children- 2 yr old
D-Day- 05/15/06 EA/PA 5 months
WBF moved out 5/16/06
moved back in 7/12/06
LC 7/26/06

If he has no contact with the OW, he will come out of withdrawal. Then he should be more willing to work on the relationship.

I'm concerned about you because I have several children your age, and I know it is not easy to make it in today's world.

I think you realize that your disorder is not helping matters any. If you cling more to him, he will tend to pull away. However, you do need a good support group and counseling.

I'm worried about you moving with him not having a job. In California, if you have children, you can get emergency welfare and at least get food and a motel room.

Plan A is being the best wife/GF you can be, with no angry outbursts or disrespectful judgements. It is also about taking care of yourself, and making good decisions.

You are very early in this, and it is completely miserable at first. But I promise you it does get better.

How is your relationship with your family?

My relationship with my mother is good. She is my best friend. My sister just had a baby though so her focus has been more on that. My relationships with my sisters are on and off. I hate my father. I feel I have a better chance financially with BF than without him. Actually, if I don't go, he won't go and then we'll probably never get out of this misery. I am not too concerned. I am not homeless, yet. I can stay at my mom's if I have to but really would rather not and that would have to be extremely temporary. How do we know when the withdrawal is gone?

He will get more interested in a relationship with you. It usually doesn't last that long, IF there is no contact.

In the meantime, you are going to have to do the best you can. How long have you taken the anti-D's?

hnt...yes, you are in quite a fix...but you know what...everyone who arrives here is in a similar fix. Every family who has to deal with adultery also has a full set of regular employment concerns, insurance concerns, money concern, and all those lovely challenges life has to bring.

Adultery makes things worse, and seems to enhance all the other problems because your emotions are running at a more sensitive level. One of the first "rules" of dealing with all this is try to put the emotions aside, and make decisions based on fact, not feelings.

Isolate the problems one by one and don't try to solve everything all at once. You don't eat a quarter pounder in one bite, you take little bite after little bite, of a size you can handle, and ultimately, the burger is gone. Likewise with problems. Don't look for a magic pill, look for solutions that can be applied in steps, while all the time looking at the brass ring.

The advice above was on the mark, get some of the family personal matters solved before making "fixing" the relationship your major focus. That doesn't mean you can't learn from reading Harley's books and learn about LoveBusters, and how to care for and nurture your relationship, but again, do it with baby steps.

A marriage that is plagued by infidelity did not become vulnerable overnight. Nor will it be fixed overnight. You have to be able to learn and process all of the solutions in a paced and orderly fashion, without becoming distressed.

Focus on getting the family matters in hand, for your sake and for the kids.

Best wishes,
SD

It's breaking my heart to read your posts. You seem to be in such a panic and frenzy ... you can't even get all your questions out before the next flood of emotions and the next round of questions come steamroll you down.

I can remember the heart-crushing panic at the very beginning. I still have those moments. It makes it so hard to think straight and concentrate. That's when you need a really good, strong plan. Specific steps that are spelled out for you to take when you just don't know what else to do. And people here will help you develop that, you just have to listen to what they are saying.

You need to read up some more on Plan A. Build one, and write it down. There are lots of great posts around here spelling it out, do a search, or maybe someone has all the links and can post them. Then post it here and let the experts help you refine it. It will help when you're in those spots where you jsut can't think and don't know what to do next.

Plan A is not about just doing nothing, just avoiding causing problems, meeting his needs, etc. You need to be making the changes in yourself that will make your home, and your relationship and yourself more attractive, safe, comfortable, and happy. Something that he will want to come to. More importantly, something that YOU can be happy about.

You sound so miserable. You said that anytime you guys go out to do something, he has more fun than you, and you end up being miserable. Why? That is so sad. Isn't there anything that you find joy in? Find things that make you happy, things that you can be proud of, rejoice in, put energy into. Take care of yourself, build yourself up. You are responsible for your feelings -- do you really want to be miserable all the time? Please, find some happiness away from him. He is not responsible for making you happy.

Along the same lines, you are not responsible for his actions or feelings, either. This was REALLLLLLY hard for me to learn when I first came here (and I still have my setbacks!). You cannot keep your BF from seeing other women, even if you keep him on lockdown 24-7. It has to be his choice. That doesn't mean you automatically trust that he won't see other women. It just means that it's his choice to do so, and you can't control those choices. You can only control your reactions, your boundaries. You can't stop him from having contact with the OW, but you can move yourself and your child in with your mom, or refuse to leave town with him, (or whatever) if he does.


I really think that the most important and urgent thing you need to do right now is to find your own strength and value. That's the best thing you could do for yourself, your child AND your relationship. Do things that are good for you, that lift your spirit and heart and make you happy. Sing, dance, play, do something. Find some ways you *can* be independent -- Get a job (have you thought of working for a temp agency until you guys actually move? That could work since you're trying to get out of town), get involved in making the moving arrangements, find your own job in some far away city, so he can follow you instead of you following him. Do things that are good for you!!!

Being miserable, and making everyone else miserable is an awful way to live. Focus right now on picking yourself up, the relationship will follow.


-AmI.

ps ... you have some of the best of the best posting to you on your threads (not me, I'm a novice around here). Slow down and listen to what they're saying, take the time to really process it. They're helping you, you just have to be open to listening and hearing things that don't feel like the way you've always done them before.