Over the past 7 years, my marriage has been full of many problems that my wife has with me. The normal things, such as the amount of time I was/wasn't spending with my kids, doing family things, financial stuff, etc...

There was and still is always something new.

To this day, even after I caught her in an EA, and now that we seem to be past that, I still do not see any change her her with respect to the way she thinks of me.

Each and every probel she has had in the past has been corrected, even if I disagreed, I still did what it took to make her happy.
Problem is, I can never really see any change in her.
What I mean is, she will complain about something, say it needs to change, and then when it does she really doesnt show that she realizes or appreciates my effort, instead she brings up something else that needs changing.

As of right now, my wife has no problems with anything, she has told me (when i asked) that I have done a complete turn around and its all great.

But, she used to tell me that "making her happy would make me happy".
but i dont see much difference in her, as far as I can see she acts the same, feels the same as she did 5 years ago.

The only things she has a problem with now, and has been a problem for a long time, is where we live.

In a nutshell, my wife has watched me change my ways to make her happy in many different areas of the marriage, but she still doesnt seem happy. I know this because of the way she treats me. everything in her mind is negative.

She wont drop the idea of moving.
She wants me to look for a job that would allow us to move closer to her mother. We currently live 7 hrs away from her mom, and her dad lives 3 hrs away in the other direction. She sees all of them regualrily, they come for holidays, she goes there for a week or 2 at a time, 2-3 times a year.

But, my wife claims she loves me, she claims everything is great, but she can still look me in the eyes and tell me that she wants me to look for a job somewhere closer to her mom, EVEN if the job is less pay, less opportunnity, and even if I hate the job.

Not only that , but she would expect me to do this even if it only put us a few hours closer to her mom.

In other words, my wife would let me go from a well paying job that I enjoy doing, and have been doing for 10 years, to a lesser paying job that I would not enjoy just to make the trips to visit her family a little less inconvenient.

She will not drop it. Even if I were to tell her that there is absolutely no way I am moving, she would and has told me "well then I guess i will just stay with you and suffer. But if I ever end up needing to be with my mother, that is where she and the kids will be"

so shes basically holding this cloud over my head making me think that if we dont move she may eventually just leave.

I think she is being immature, unfair, and I resent the fact that shes made me think i needed to make dozens of changes in the past to make the marriage work, when it really has had no effect.

What I need is for her to accapt the fact that I wont move.

I love my wife and kids very much, i treat them very very well. Ive even asked my wife in the past if she thinks any other guy would have made the changes i have, and put up with her bs as I have done and she said "no"

any opinions/ideas?

Ask her to ask her mother to move. Offer to help her with packing, and moving costs.

She'll reply "oh i cant ask my mom to move she's live there xxx years".

reply with "I cant ask our children to move, they've lived here all their lives".

PS:


sounds like she's already looking to do this, and just looking to make things easier on herself in doing so.

maybe she's still having an EA. or another new one.

I am so sorry. I don't want to alarm you but this is what caused my M to get so bad my FWW had an A.

Everything you say I identify with. She wanted to move back to NY to be around her family.

Just like you I was a great H to her but quite frankly once she got it into her head that is what she wanted. Nothing I did mattered.

That included: Working my tail off so she could be a SAHM. That was going to make her happy.
Trips back home more often.
A new wedding ring.
Breast augmentation and lypo suction.
Vacation to Vegas that I didn't want to go on.
New clothes.
Well you get the point.

I sent her back on a vacation she had an A. What it has all boiled down to is her resentment of me because I wouldn't move.

Unfortunatly her A made it quite clear I made the right decesion.

What the MC told us when we went was. I would not go anywhere if I were you. She is running from something not too something.

He told her he didn't think it was going to help at all. She decided to stop going to the MC.

I would say be careful.


Good luck with that one. I had a list of about 200 negatives and very few positives. The most important to me was the arthritis in my knees and my bad back. Both get worse in colder whether. Her response you will be fine. The most important for the family. I would have to commute to NYC every day. Leave home at 5:30 and get home about 7 to 7:30 instead of working by where we live. I don't want to never see the kids during the week. She said they would survive.

All so she could be closer to her family. BTW her family has never been there for her. She actually kept saying she wanted a relationship with her mom. Well her mom came out for the summer in June. Three days later her mom wanted to leave and my FWW wanted her to leave. When I brought this up before I hated her mom. No I was pointing out her actual relationship not the idealized one.

Go find and MC and work through it.

I wish it were that easy.

If I ask her to just get her mom to move here, she will "re-load" with more reasons to move to make my idea unreasonable...

for example..
if i asked her to get her mom to move here, she would then say that its not just her mom, she would say she hates this town.

if I said lets move west to where my brothers live (her mom lives eats), she would say no, thats to far from my mom. (seems living closer to her mom is all of a sudden more important than living in such a bad town)

then she would claim that this town is a bad place for our children to grow up. and again... if I said lets move west to where my brothers live (her mom lives eats), she would say no, thats to far from my mom. (seems living closer to her mom is all of a sudden more important than our children growing up here)

then she will go on to say that "she has tried living here for 7 years for me, and now i should try somewhere else for her"



as far as the ea, its over.
potential for another ea to come up in the future... im not sure.

any other ideas?

Hi Langaan-
I took a look at your previous posts and it seems to me that your wife's EA was pretty recent (it is true that you're about 6 weeks into NC?)

If this is the case, I think your marriage is at a sensitive time right now and big changes aren't a good idea (that includes moving).

You need more time to see a difference in her. She's not thinking clearly yet. Has she read any of the information here? She's still in withdrawal and needs your support. Maybe she's using the moving issue as a tactic to test your investment in her?

Anyway, what I would do is be patient and loving with her but firm about not moving. Anything a husband and wife do should have "enthusiatic support" from both. Right? You're not enthused, so don't move.

I heard the same thing.

Ok. I live in California. My FWW moved here with me before we were married. Her choice. I was moving I said do you want to move to California with me. She said yes.

The reason she was able to move is she had no family bonds.

Now My mom is a great help to us. Always has been. We can drop the kids off for a weekend about once a month or so.

My family get together for birthdays and holidays etc.

My kids are used to So Cal weather. We have had season passes to Disneyland, legoland and knotts berry farm for the last 5-6 years.

I am in sales. I have a sales job 15 minutes from where we live. I made enough money for her to be a SAHM. We couldn't be extravagent but we got by.

Then she decided one day that being close to her family was important. She had been here 6 years around my family I owe it to her to go back to NY for at least 6 years.

Now mind you in the entire time we were discussing this all I wanted was to know how this move was good for the ENTIRE family. The only time her family has gotten on a plane and flown out here was for our wedding.

Her mom and younger brother both had open invitations to come out and visit and WE WOULD PAY for the tickets. Neither came.

During this time we had taken a few trips back to NY. The first a disaster. We stayed with her family and it was late december in NY. They didn't even have oil in the tank for heat. They didn't shovel the walk. We almost killed ourselves walking into the house. After 2 days she wanted to go home.

When I brought this up she said they had changed. Guess what they hadn't.

Now 3 years of this went by. Nothing I did was good enough. If she saw a TV show or something about NY I got the cold shoulder.

Fast forward. I agree to let her take the kids back to NY for six weeks so they can be around her family.

First none of them invited her to stay with them. Her sister said she would let them but it would be very crowded. HINT HINT.

She stays at my Aunts house and meets my Aunts tenant who lives in the basement apartment. Has an A with him and guess what spent no time with her family.

Her reason for the A. Basically the resentment of me not moving back. Meanwhile that trip yet again reinforced how important her family was.

If she keeps going down this path I can give you one piece of advice only.

Do not continually try to do everything for her to make her happy. It will not work.

I don't mean filling her EN's.

I mean thinking if I do this extra or that extra she will be happy.

Now looking back on it because this issue consumed her she drove our M into the ground.

I would ask her to go out and she would say ask your step mom to watch the kids. Knowing my step mom wouldn't. See if we lived in NY we could go out. Basically anything that wasn't 100% right it would be better in NY.

Now she has finally admitted that moving back to NY was not a good idea.

A month before her mom came out we had to go to something with my OS. He is at the cool stage now. Didn't want Grandma to come. I told him one day Grandma wouldn't be around and you should really cherish these times.

My FWW got mad and said how nice is it your mom gets to see it and mine doesn't.

Well after her mom came out she couldn't stand her. Just like it has always been.

Now my FWW wants to move to North Carolina.

LOL. I just told her that wasn't happening based on the fact we are not recovered from your A.

I am only telling you all of this because I want you to see how important this is to deal with now.

If she keeps this as an EN that you are not filling you will always be right about even in the LB.

langaan......been there done that. Sometimes there is nothing you can possibly do to make your spouse happy. Its them....they have a problem. Its almost like they really need to be in a horrible situation to realize what it is that should truly make someone happy and is important. A roof over their head, food on the table, a loving H and family, and good health.

Thanks all.

My impression at this point is that I can give her time and keep loving her, but unfortunately, I truly beleive that will not change anything. I don't mean to suggest any of you are wrong, I am just saying that its been long enough here that there is clearly going to be no change in the future with respect to this subject.

I fear my only option is to wait for her to experience the "horrible situation" of being alone when/if she decides to just leave me to be closer to her mom.

Problem is I am not sure I can go through that and then still love her.

Is there anyone in these forums who have been in this situation, and gotten through it without giving in to moving? and gone on to be happy? or is this in reality a winless battle?

ps: my wife will not agree to see a MC, or any other counsellor.

langaan,

Good luck. I can say your W needs to understand that it isn't a good idea.

Like I said I spent 3-4 years pointing out the negatives that were real. I accepted the postives that were real.

But in the end the negatives clearly outweighed the positives.

In her mind the negatives were excuses. The positives were real. There is no way to make someone see what they don't want to see.

After 6-7 years, and A, and getting a big dose of her mom she now sees what I was trying to say this whole time.

Who was put through ****** for her to come to this realization.

If someone has a need to uproot their entire family for somehting they want there is something wrong.

The thing is in my State my FWW could never just pick up and leave with the kids. With or without me she would be stuck here. This caused even more resentment.

I'd suggest you re-read the Policy of Joint Agreement.

Your opening post was filled with disrespectful judgements towards your wife and her feelings.

I'd suggest you seriously consider her feelings and what she is telling you...she is not happy where you are living.

Brainstorm solutions. Don't reject ideas out of hand just because you don't think it will really make her happy. That's not your judgment to make...it's hers.

I suspect she's throwing the "going home to mom" threat out there because she feels you have taken an intractable position (I won't move) so she is forced to do the same. She feels disrespected by your refusal to acknowledge and value her feelings about this.

It may appear as though i have judged my wife, but I have infact not. My wife clearly states and admits to everything Ive said. She also admits to everything below:
- she admits she is unreasonable and stubborn when it comes to not getting something she wants.
- she admits that she considers herslef "above" me, and also admits that she realizes she is wrong for thinking that, but won't say anything more.
- she will consistantly blame me for things under the basis that are not my fault, then admit they are not my fault, but then still bring them up again ..
- she refers to herself as a "b#$%h", and tells me that I am wrong to expect her to change. In other words, I married her as a "b*%&h", so I should accept it. PS: THOSE ARE HER WORDS
- She admits that she doesnt know a single person on earth who would expect the things from a husband that I have done for her
- she admits that she doesnt know a single women who even tries to change their husband in so many ways, to to satsify herself ( again , HER WORDS)

oh, and here's the kicker...
she hates that she has gotten this way, but it is all because of the last few years, and its all my fault.
again, her words.



Consider her feelings? I considered her feelings for many years. I realize she would like to live closer to her family, but its not like we dont see them at all. We are not talking about moving and making it possible to see family, we are talking about moving and making it "more convenient/ less hassle"
And on that note, what about my feelings? She would let me go from a corporate position to flipping hamburgers at McDonalds if it meant getting what she wanted.


I have exhausted myself trying to do that. I have come up with every idea in the book, and every time it gets shot down.
As soon as i open my mouth, and as soon as she realizes that I am trying to brainstorm, she realizes I am not giving her what she wants and she gets pi$$ed. She will not brainstorm, trust me.


I had not always taken an intractable position. My position is that IF a job came up that was as good of pay, as good of opportunity etc... then we could look into it.
Infact I have applied for 4 positions in the last 3 yers.
2 of which went nowhere, didnt even get a response.
the other 2 were huge pay cuts and a step down in my career, and i didnt necassarly have the position anyway.

ps: she has claimed in the past that even if I "tried" to look for something she would be happy.

fact is, there is nothing, and she aint happy.
fact is, im not looking anymore. We need to be happy here or we need to deal with the problem here.

Im not going to continue to entertain the idea of moving, while being the bad guy all along. Hurtingless' situation is almost exactly like mine.


Hurtingless,
what exatly was it that made her see the light about moving to NY?
and what is it that makes her want to move to Carolina now??

Sounds like what you are really doing here is venting...

Your W may very well consider herself a b####, but you don't have to agree with her.

POJA IS about considering your feelings. You seem to think that POJA is about you knuckling under...it is not.

POJA is simply about each spouse hearing and respecting the other enough to work towards ways to fix things...

She doesn't HAVE to have good reasons for how she feels...she just feels. You seem to want her to prove a case for moving to you. You seem to think her feelings aren't valid unless she has good logic to back them up. I'm not bashing you, but this is a common mistake we men make.

You have so far called your wife immature and selfish...pretty strong DJs...

You told us that you shouldn't have to POJA further because of the effort you've put in so far without results...sounds like you are throwing in the towel.

One last question for you...

Would your wife say that you respect her feelings and thoughts? By respect, I mean that you take her seriously and value her input? Is what she thinks important to you?

The tone of your posts seem to indicate that perhaps there is a sort of parent/child dynamic at work here...with you behaving like a "father". Does it sometimes feel that way to you?

And it sounds like to me that you are just siding with his wife on this??? I personally dont know how you can read a persons tone by what is typed on MB......I would think someone would have to talk to someone to get that.....but anyhow. I feel that you are disregarding what has been said about how he has tried to please her. What is he supposed to do, live his life to just TRY and please his wife? Maybe he is doing all he can? Also, just because his wife wants to move, why should he? I thought it took two people in a marriage to work on a decision? I dont know........ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I'm absolutely not disregarding that...the problem is that it appears to have about personal sacrifice in an attempt to appease a spoiled child (his W and yes I am sharing in his DJ). That sacrifice is manifested as resentment and disengagement on his part.

I'm wondering if this is the dynamic at work...and what has been going on is not really POJA?

Tone can be inferred...I sense frustration...but it looks like the frustration of a father towards a child that just won't be happy.

His wife isn't here or she'd get her own version of this...but he is, so this is what I think he should consider - JMHO. I could always be wrong, and in any event, he's asking for help. He can ignore mine if he chooses, but it is intended as help.

Im sure he is frustrated, he has every right to be.....You wouldnt be frustrated in his situation......I would be. Trying appease someone who is always unhappy is fighting an uphill battle.....my EX was never happy. Her own father said, "nothing makes her happy". Sometimes its the person, and not anything around them at all. JMHO.....

Hence...my original advice...

STOP the appeasement...and learn about POJA...

POJA is a challenging concept to internalize...I don't think any couple can claim to be masters of it...

But the concept is worthy...

One mistake spouses make in POJA is they don't bring their Taker to the table...I think this is what he has done...left his Taker at home.

Now his Taker is pissed and on the warpath...

Here's what I think is the lightbulb moment about POJA...

It's not about YOU trying to make your SPOUSE happy!

POJA is about YOU trying to make YOURSELF happy while respecting the feeling and desires of your spouse.

Point taken......Have a good one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well as far as moving back to NY. She eliminated her biggest reason for going back by having the A.

The vacation was to spend time with her family who she missed and loved so much she wanted to uproot our family. Well considering the fact she spent most of the time with the OM instead of her family it is pretty hard to argue that point.

Then her mom came out to visit and her mom has some psychological problems. No DJ the truth.

I think the other thing is that her family NEVER calls except for her sister ocasionally.

So that was really all of the positives. The negatives still exist.

Moving to NC is because California housing prices are really high. I agree with that and if we had a solid M I would consider moving. Maybe not to NC but I would consider moving out of state.

I basically told her that quite frankly she has not built up my trust to even consider moving out of the state.

But look at all of the negative things she was willing to endure to get her way.

I was the bad guy and I paid dearly for it.

Imagine your W steamrolling over you to get plastic surgery and even before the scars are healed you are the bad guy again.

That is why I suggested being a good husband but don't let her steam roll over you.

The other thing is that the more they focus on it the worse of a H you are.

If your W wanted to be in the same town that is one thing but to move a few hours closer.

Now all I can say is this in my Sitch. At least I never caved. I can't imagine us still being married right now if I moved back and none of her positives were true. I also wouldn't forgive myself for taking my kids back there and not seeing my family who really wants to be involved in our lives.

If she is willing to let everyone else sacrafice for her there is something wrong. My wife was willing to let me and the kids sacrafice for the sake of her PERCEIVED happiness.

I am not saying my FWW feelings were wrong. I am saying that she put hers over everyone elses and that is selfish. I am also saying that when she didn't get her way she made everyone else unhappy including herself to prove she would be happier there.

She made it so living anywhere would be better then being stuck here. She did a good job.

When my FWW was on her vacation she was telling me about all the time she was spending with her family and I thought maybe they had changed. I was considering moving back until I found out her family was code for the OM. LOL.

Well as far as trying to make myself happy, while considering her feelings, heres where I am at with that...

#1 I am already focusing on myself being happy. I am doing that by trying to get rid of the clouds that are held over my head, IE: moving, or the constant threat of her leaving if I dont..

#2 I have many times exhausted my self talking to her trying to meet an level ground and discuss feelings, needs etc... and a few times I manage to get past the stubborness. She puts up what we call her "wall" when we talk. We both refer to it as her "wall". Its that time when nothing I say matters, unless it is the exact thing she wants to hear.

The last time we had a long talk, about feelings and needs, moving etc... it all went good.
We got many things out... we got past the wall and had real discussions, we seemed to have plans in place...
BUT, at the end of the conversation, she brought up moving.
I told her at that time that I would consider moving east in the future, IF it is an equal or better job for us, and if its in a decent area etc... ( i thought this would make her happy )

But heres where we hit the problem again. at this point, even after hours of talking, she plain out realized that I wasnt going to just come out and say "OK LETS MOVE", so she got mad, cried, and put the wall back up. That was it for that night. All pain no gain.

And yes she has read some stuff here, her comment after reading some things here was short and simple to me...
she said
" I hope these people arent being paid for there advice "