Lang,

Just wanted to check in and see how it was going.

I agree. Been there, done that. Divorced now.

Your wife is self-centered, and you are not helping her change her focus. She is focused on herself, and you are focussed on her.

I didn't do it. Maybe you can. You need to decide what you want ... and ASK FOR IT. Little things. Big things. Easy things. Hard things.

And you can say "no" - and stick by it. I don't believe she respects you. I've been in a similar marriage. It was always all about her - in part - because I didn't stand up for myself.

hurtingless,

My wife had an extremly traumatic childhood too - being orphaned in a war, adopted internationally, raised by a controlling abusive mother, major social/political upheavals, racial prejudice in her adoptive country etc. I know these events profoundly shaped her - through no fault of her own.

-AD

My Polar position is my only option due to the fact that she has the same polar position. She wants to move from point A to Point B, and if I say I don't want to move to point B, but we could look into moving to point C, she would shut down and argue my reasons for not wanting to move to point B. (Point A being where we live now, point B is where she wants to move, point C is wherever. Doesn't matter anyways because its not point B and thats all that matters to her).

As far as her not caring about my feelings, your right, it is a whole other problem. But, I feel it ties into this because normally she does care for my feelings. But when this subject comes up, she is far to selfish and determined to move that she disregards my feelings, reasons and ideas.




I don't quite understand what you meant here...




Work from home - no
Other feilds - no
Other industries - maybe, but I would be no more qualified for it than you or anyone else posting on these boards. Currently I am in the top position in my feild, with the exception of a corporate position (which i am not interested in)


I always was willing to consider alternatives, but she wasn't. It is very clear what she wants. she wants to move to any town that is within a few hours of her mother/sister. Whatever it takes to do that does not matter to her at all.
I may be part to blame for one thing, and that is that I can not force myself anymore to "care" about her feelings in this subject because she doesn't show me the same.

ps: hiya hurtingless :P

By the way,
my wife has spent approx 7 out of 32 weeks with her family this year alone. 2 weeks on vacation with them in the dominican (this is where she met the guy that she had the email EA with when she got home), followed by them being here for 1 week, then she went to visit them for 2 weeks again. That on top of several visits from her dad, 3-6 days at a time staying at our place.
7 out of 32 weeks, and she claims its not enough.

This last visit she had down there, she and the kids were there for 2 weeks (was supposed to be 3 but she got sick of her mom and her BF so came home early)

on her way home, she called me and we were talking for a bit while she was driving. She had the nerve to bring up moving in this phone call. we hadnt seen eachother in 2 weeks, and she brings this up before she even gets home!

To top that off, her sister (aunty) sent me the below email a cpl days after W got home...


<<<Start
Did S and D ask you to move closer to Aunty? Just before they left, they told me how much they wll miss me and was going to ask you. I didn't even ask them too. Ahh well some day (fingers crossed)
>>>END


This was my response, as I was quite upset and am fedup with this whole thing.


FYI:
<CITY A> is where we live now
<CITY B> is where W’s wife/sister live


<<<Start
Hiya Aunty,
No they didn’t say anything. Although W did say “we need to start looking for work East” when we were talking on the phone when she was driving back from <CITY B>.
This little problem is going to end up breaking up my family.

Correct me if I am wrong, but there is only 1 “pro” to moving towards <CITY B>, and that is the ability to see you guys more often and with less hassle right?

And with what I gather, this seems more and more like it is most important to W and yourself more than anyone else. Every time W goes down there she complains about your mom or Your mom’s BF (or both).
She tells me that she spent everyday alone, doing nothing, bored out of her mind, then everyone except you takes off to the bar or wherever on the weekends?

We went on a 3day vacation as a family when W & kids got home from visiting you, just the 5 of us, which is great. But I’d bet my life that the only reason we went alone is because you and/or your mom couldn’t go. W knew we were going to do something before she left <CITY B>, did she ask you to come home with her? I bet she did. So what’s that all about?

Here are the cons of us moving:
1- My career would be over. The only possible chance of employment is with 1 of about 5 possible facilities within 3 hrs of <CITY B>. 4 out of the 5 I would hate to work at, and the 5th is Managed by my former boss. If yo don’t believe me, find out for yourself. There are 3 companies in the area, they are Company A B & C.
- Compnay A: I already applied and got to 2nd interview, then I turned them down a few years ago. Any future employment with this company is not an option.
- Company B is owned by a large corporation. The only way I can get into this company is through a guy I know, who used to be the vice pres. However, he has now moved to a different area of of the corporation and he cannot help me anymore. Any future employment with this company is not an option, due to no diploma/degree
- Company C. Theres only 1 mill near <CITY B>, and its IN <CITY B>. I know the Manager and prod manager, and I know there are no positions there. Infact, I know there are not going to be any in the near future.

Any facility/company that I missed is because it is in your capital city and there isn’t a chance of me working in that dump.

2- Even if there was a job at one of the 5 mills, and IF I could get the job, here is what I would have to give up…
- I would not get a manager position, as there are more “paper” qualified people out there. People with Grade 12 diploma’s, and college degrees. I cannot compete with that as a Manager. My 8 yrs experience would help me get a lower position due to the fact that I know a lot about this specific industry, but without those degrees I am battling an uphill battle against others that have such degrees. It is quite likely that my resume wouldn’t even be looked at as soon as they see there is no 12 diploma or degree.
- Since I wouldn’t be able to get a manager spot, that leaves either a supervisory position, or an operations position. That’s a HUGE step backwards, and we’re looking at a $15-20,000 pay cut, less benefits, NO company vehicle, strict hours, lots of O/T.
- And most of all, all 5 facilities are old, whereas the one Im in now was built 6 years ago, and I’ve been here since day 1.. There is no way I am going back to an old rotting facility to work 10 hours a day and come home smelling like rotten garbage. I paid my dues in my early years doing that to get where I am now. Why would I go back?
- I would be unhappy at the job, plain and simple. Unhappy, being paid less, working longer hours.
3- Here’s another problem. What if we had moved to a town near you for this reason 4 years ago when you were living in *****??
- what if we had moved to a town 3 hours away from where you lived 4 years ago, before you all moved?
- What would W have done when you all wanted to move to <CITY B>? Would she have stopped you all from moving? Would she have made us move again?
- What about when you and your BF moved west? Would W then all of a sudden think moving west is a good idea?? Would W have tried to stop you from moving, or would she have tried to get me to follow?
- Even if we moved now, lets say to a town 3hrs out of <CITY B>… are you and your mom going to stay in <CITY B> forever? And if not, lets say Your mom and your mom’s BF decide to move to the east coast for whatever reason; does that mean we move too?
4- Another thing, how can you and W claim it is best for my kids to move closer to YOUR family, while at the same time we would be moving further away from their grandpa ? Oh, I forgot, it’s just G-pa. Who cares about him, me, or the kids…. Etc… as long as we get closer to <CITY B> its all worth the sacrifices others make right?


Now, those were the cons. Now here are the reasons I will not move, nor will I even look for openings anymore:
1- Number 1 reason is because of all the above 5 cons.
2- My marriage is “unstable”, I haven’t got a clue how my wife thinks and/or how she comes to her conclusions, so it would be extremely stupid on my part to uproot my family and move in this state anyway.
3- We cannot afford to move. Right now we have a house, some debt, jobs, and everything else we need. If we moved, we would NOT be able to get a house. Our debt versus net worth is far below what we need to get a house. Which means we would be renting… again… another step backwards.
4- I personally do not want to move, and If I did, I would prefer to move west. But, I wouldn’t move west as it puts us further away from you.
5- I love my current job. I like my salary, my hours, my freedom to come and go, and I like having a truck funded by the company. I worked my [censored] of getting to where I am and you and your sister want me to throw it all out the window.
6- I like my house, my neighborhood. I worked hard to get where we are.
7- Last but not least, ive spent the last few years trying to make my wife happy. Ive done whatever she asks, ive done everything I can think of, and all just to have her treat me like I am not good enough. I’ll be damned if I’m going to bend over and say “ok lets move, whatever you want honey” JUST in hopes that she treats me better, or acts like she wants to. I will never, and I mean never, uproot and move my family just to appease my wife who claims I am the cause of all her pain.

By the way, remember how W claims that the past 7 years, the pain she’s gone through in those 7 years are the cause for all her problems…
- unhappiness
- her emotional affair with the guy she met on vacation in the Dominican with YOU and YOUR family
- Stubbornness
- Yelling at kids
- Depression
- The way she treats me

All of the above things are things she blames me for, she says its all because shes been miserable for the last 7 yrs in NB and its my fault for not moving. If you remember, she even told your mom that she was going to make me “suffer” for the next 7 years to get even.

So, I have a question, IF I were to move away from <CITY A>, and if I am unhappy wherever we go, do I get to do all of the below AND blame it on W?

- will W go out and get a job to support us while I stay at home with the kids?
- Will W do everything in her power to make me living somewhere else as best as it can be for me, including letting me spend any money I have however I want it?
- When I get into my own debt, will W get me out of it so I can do it again? Will W come up with thousands of dollars to save my [censored]?
- Will W strive to do whatever I want you to do if I claim it is making me unhappy?
- Will W let me have an emotional affair over email with someone I meet in a trip down south with my brothers, and blame it on the fact that she made me move? Then just forgive me? Will she do that.. ya think???
- Will W let me blame her for every negative thing that happens in our life?
- Will W let me hound her and blame her for financial difficulties, and then watch me turn around and do it myself? Then let me blame all of it on the fact that she made me move?
- Will W stop spending any and all money on herself and give it to me to spend on myself and the kids while she stay’s at home and does whatever?
- Will W listen to me complain and tell her that the place we move to is a bad town for our kids, and we should move back to NB? Will she listen to me say this day in and day out without losing her mind? Will she let me tell her she is ruining our family be staying there?
- Will W move closer to my brothers if I want to?
- will W listen to me accuse her of being a poor mother?
- Will W comfort me when I am angry about where I live?
- Will W let me turn every disagreement into a big argument all based on the fact that she made me move?
- Will W be my paycheck and stability, and sit there while I make her feel like its all she really means to me?

Those are all things I’ve done for her. Think she would do them for me?

W has a huge mis-conception in what a marriage is. She believes one of the most important factors in a marriage is compromise, and she is correct.
However, W’s definition of compromise is completely wrong.

W’s definition of compromise is her staying with me the past few years in this town. She says she hates it here but “she stayed for me”.
That is NOT compromise.

I told W that since I didn’t want to move, I would let her take all our extra money and use it for whatever she wants, which included extra trips to visit you and your mom. That is compromise.

Have you ever heard of our “Giver” and “Taker” ??

It’s a word for married couples. Our “Giver” is the part of us that does things in order to make the other person happy. Our taker is the part of us that does things to make ourself happy.

With everything I’ve read into on Marriage and counseling, there are 2 things that everyone agrees on.

#1 – a married couple never make a decision unless it is enthusiastically supported by both.
#2 – A married couple should be 50% giver, and 50% taker. Never more of either one.

With that said, I consider myself to be more of a giver. I give a lot more than I take.
W on the other hand is 99% taker.

As far as moving goes… we do not both enthusiastically support the idea. With that in mind W should have dropped it a long fukn time ago.

I’m absolutely done with the moving subject. If W cannot be happy here, she can move “home”. There is obviously not a god damn thing I can do to make her happy, and quite frankly I’d rather keep some dignity before giving any more to her.


I’m not going to trade my happiness for hers anymore, and I regret doing it in the first place.

And with all that said, why in the ****** should I give up my job, move backwards, uproot my family and everything else when it would be much easier for you and your mom to move to <CITY A>? Is that asking too much? Tell me about it.

So, ive told you all the reasons I don’t want or cant move,,, so why don’t you tell me why you and your mom don’t pick up and move here?

Sorry if that all sounds harsh, bit I’ve had enough.

>>>END

I guess i went overboard, but she and I have talked in the past and she claims she understands what im going through. Yet she does this.

fed up

Lang,

Good for you.

My god your W sounds like mine.

Even the part that on every trip back to visit the almighty family that is so important she wants to cut short because she can't stand to be around them.

Even when the trip she took to see her almighty family she had her A and basically spent no time with them.

Last night she said she had been unhappy well before her A. I asked why. The old answer because we didn't move back to NY. The new answer for a lot of reasons. Mind sharing those with me? I just wasnt'. LMFAO.

Now be careful invloving the family. They are not there to help you.

My FWW's family has actually intervened and made it worse.

Her sister was one of her biggest advocates. Ignoring any common sense and just agreeing with her. When my FWW got back from NY she started calling om and throwing away phone bills. OOPS I pay bills online. I go online look at call detail calls to OM. I tell FWW I know she called she got mad I looked at phone bill. Tells her sister who by the way KNOWS my FWW went out with the om on several occasions because he picked her up at her sisters house. Her sister said I WAS WRONG for looking at my own phone bills.

What I would do now is make it clear you are willing to discuss it.

You are willing to consider the pros and cons FOR EVERYONE that the decesion effects.

If she insists the only way for her to be happy is to move let her. Say go ahead. I am staying here with the kids. You go.

I wish I sent my FWW back when she started this crap. She would have come to the realization she is at now. It sucks there. It would suck even more without my paycheck.

If she didn't then she would be there and my life would not have been the trainwreck it is now.

Oh BTW now she realizes that moving back wouldn't have been everything she says it was. Now she says she was miserable for another reason.

I wonder if they aren't just miserable with life.

On another post someone wrote my FWW has root problems from her childhood.

These problems are the real cause of her unhappiness. The things she now decides will make her happy or the things she claims have made her unhappy are all just to cover up her general unhappiness created by her childhood.

Until this problem is resolved then the reason of the day, week, or month will continue.

Interesting. Although the only problems I know of in my wifes childhood is her parents divorce, she was 8yo at the time.

As far as I know or can tell, it doesn't seem like it had a huge effect on her. She is still close to both of her parents to this day.

well, im out for the night...

I have a new question.

With everything that's gone on in the last few years, and considering the fact that we are both trying to make things work right now...

(as in rebound from the EA she had)

it seems as though we have passed the ea thing and moved on..

however, now I am back to struggling with the fact that I truly beleive the only reason we are together is because of the fact that I have been 99% giver and she has been 99% taker.
I truly beleive if I tried to make it 50/50, she would leave.
I also beleive that I dont want to go on like this, Especially considering the fact that she has no idea (atleast she wont admit it) to how selfish she is...

at any rate.. question..

How do I "casually" bring up the subject with her?

I basically want to tell her that I am done being the giver all the time, but I know she is going to fight me about it.

I would get the EN questionair(sp)

Both of you fill them out so you know eachs most important emotional needs(EN).

Tell her you want to know her needs so you can be a better H and give her yours.

Hopefully that will be a good door opener.

What is there to fight about if you do it that way. Put the onus on yourself. Lead and hope she will follow.

I would say don't let it get to where I am because then there is resentment as well. It is impossible to catch up if she is really that far behind.

i will try that...

Another question....

After I found out about my Wife's EA in April, I chose to take every extra minute of my time and devote it to our marriage.
One thing I sacrificed is entertainment. By that I mean, and this may sound silly and may even sound familiar to some... I used to play an online game with several other people pretty much every night.
I would only get online AFTER i had the kids in bed, and my wife was usually on her way out when I sat down to play.

I stopped playing because I felt it may open up time for me to spend with my wife. However, at the time my wife said she didn't want me to stop playing, but I did anyways. Wether she truly meant it, or whether she really actually wanted me to quit I'm not sure.

Point is, during those hours of the day when I would be online, she was usually out or busy doing something.
That has not changed. So, with that in mind, and the fact that I miss playing and the people i played with, I am contemplating whther or not i should start playing again and how to bring it up with her.

She never really aruges it, she says shes happy that i never played until after the kids were in bed, but at the same time she would always use it against me.

She also felt her entertainment was more important.
IE: if I wanted to play early for example, before the kdis were actually asleep,,, which means she would need to be home (I cant hear the kids if I am playing), she would say
"No, I'm not going to be home at a certain time just so you can play that stupid game"

Now to me that is unfair. To me the game is entertainment, and if I ask my wife if she can be home at a certain time so I can go out, she probably would come home. bbut if its for the game she refuses.

so my questions are:
Am I wrong by considering playing an online game entertainment in the same way I consider her entertainment of going out for coffee? or is hers more important?

and,
how do I go about telling her that I want to play again?

and for those who are wondering why I want to play, it is becuase it is a huge getaway. I can sit down and play for a cpl hours and the stresses of life don't even cross me mind.

pss:
my original plan was for to use the time i wasnt playing for "recreational time" with my wife. But she isnt interested. Her routine of going out for coffee, shopping etc... is all the same.

Well here's my horribly unsuccessful attempt at trying to explain things to my wife last night...

as per above post, I stopped using my home computer as a place for entertainment in hopes to open up some time during the night to do things with my wife.
When I quit playing, I told my wife this and I was very clear as to why I was quitting and what I expected to gain from it. I told her it would open up time for the 2 of us, period.

Now, last night, kids in bed, wife out on a walk, I sat down and played around on my pc.
Wife got home, comes downstairs and asks me when I started playing again (as if its an addiction or something). I answered " today ".
She then said "didn't you quit for a reason?"

This upset me a bit as she was out or busy all night until this point. So now she has nothing to do, so she comes and interupts me.
At any rate, she stood there for a few minutes with her arms crossed, staring at me im sure, then left to go upstairs.

Bout 15 minutes later I went upstairs to talk to her, and not to my suprise she was mad.

I asked her if she was mad and she said yes. I asked why, and she responded "didnt you quit for a reason?" again.
I then asked her to tell me what my reason was for quitting, and she rolled her eyes and so on....

To make a long story short,

I made atleast 5 attempts to try and discuss the whole thing, ie: me playing this game, how much I would play etc...
she would not respond with anything but "you had a reason for quitting, and now you are playing again, so just go ahead and play" lol

Ill save you all from the details of the bs arguments, but at any rate this finally turned into an argument about her selfishness.

The first thing brought up was finances.
As it is now, 95% of my earnings go to bills/mortgage.
40% of hers go to her own debts, and the rest goes to whatever she wants.
I told her that #1 - thats not fair, and i want a joint account just like I said 3 months ago
#2 if we have a joint account, it will atleast give us the ability to spend our extra cash together

her response....
no to the joint account.
if i need money, i can just ask her . lololol

i asked her if she thought that was fair, or even appropriate.. and she said "why do you need money" lmao
i dont think i need to explain anymore about that one.

PS: at the begginning of this whole argument, she kept thinking that it was all about money. she had it stuck in her head that all I wanted was a joint account, and everything would be all good. it took 45 minnutes to explain to her that the joint bank account was just 1 issue we have that is driven by her selfishness. I though she understood at that point... but the next morning i she proved me wrong.

Here is the status of our marriage as of lastnight...

- I have made every single change and compromise to make this marriage work, and she clearly realizes it and claims to appreciate it.
- after last night, we came to the conclusion/agreement/realization that she has done almost nothing.
- after last night my wife's words about her own selfishness were as follows (keep in mind that I told her she is selfish about everything, and it is the backbone of most of our problems)

she said
" yes, I know Im selfish. Everyone is selfish. I know what I want."
I said " so, you are admitting that you are far too selfish?"
she said "yes, its the way I am"
i said "are you going to change"
she said "no"

BAD

also,
I asked her if I am the #1 person in her life, she said no, her kids are first and always will be.

also, i gave her some examples to explain how her selfishness effects our relationship... here is one that hit home (or atleast it should have )

Keep in mind for these examples that my wife wants to put new flooring down in the kitchen, and no we absolutely do not need to replace our flooring....

I told her to imagine me comming home after work one day and asking her if we could spends about $2000 on new siding for the house. This would be something that I want and she doesn't.
I asked her what she thinks her response would be, and she said that she would say " no, how can we do that when we need to replace the shingles on the roof... it should come first "

I then told her to imagine the same situation, but this time I come home from work and ask if we could spend $2000 on putting the new flooring she wants in the kitchen.
Her answer " Yes "

Then, obviously, I point out to her that she just used the roof as a reason to not agree to do something that I wanted, yet the roof didnt matter when we were talking about something she wanted. I then told her that that was a clear example of how her selfishness effects us.

she shrugged her shoulders and smirked, she said " i know, but i want new flooring"

after all the above, my wife all of a sudden had a migraine headache and had to go to bed, so that was that.

This morning, my wife apologized. For what .... well,,, she apologized for having to go to bed.
She then started asking about how we go about getting a joint bank account. sheesh And what's worse,,, I think shes sitting there thinking that a joint bank account is going to solve our problems !


Can anyone say... Hopeless?

Holy Cow dude... Are you having an A with my wife?

Sounds like her. Selfish to an extreme, can't see that she's selfish, a taker, entitled (therefore her A), can rationalize anything to support and unsupportable arguement and much more.

She always exhibited some of these traits but man when she started her A she became insane with them.

If I had it to do all over again I would have taken a tougher approach towards her selfishness and let the chips fall where they may. I was way to accomodating, treating her like a princess.

What happened? Are you still with your wife?


Does anyone have a successful story with a spouse that is as selfish as this?

Lang,

Sorry to hear about the new problems.

What you are going through sounds a lot like what I am going through or have gone through.

Nothing you do seems to matter and it is making you frustrated.

I have had many a situations like the one you are going through. Mine usually ended more like this. Well it doesn't even seem like you want to spend time with me anyway that's why I......

Well after banging my head on the wall for 3 years I started a 180. This advice helped.

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which
may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with
your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

This caused me to become emotionally unatteched to my FWW so she couldn't hurt me or cause more damage.

It also made me indifferent to her. She wanted a reaction I gave her none.

She stopped getting what she wanted, when she wanted it, and how she wanted it.

The finance thing you speak of is exactly what I went through as well.

I sat down once and put together an excel spreadsheet. She actually spent more then 100% of our disposable income in 2 out of 3 years and 80% the other. I know that sounds impossible but thats why we got into debt problems.

Try the 180 it may open her eyes to how much she is missing.

Sorry Lan;

We have a two day hearing scheduled for August 30 and 31 that will determine child custody, visitation, financials,

She is still actively involved with serial cheating (15 admitted affairs), OCD, sex addict, and a ton more lunatic and will be part of a train wreck of massive proportion at some point in the future. This man is also 23 years older than she and leads back to your earlier comments regarding childhood (wife was abandoned ie, adopted, by parents who should never have had children, very cerebreal people with no understanding about emotional/physical love a child needs). I think in a sick way my STBXW is dating her dad or what she wishes one of the dads would have been like (listening, understanding, touching, etc). What she doesn't know that this is not who this man is. It is simply an act to get what he (a narcissit) wants from her. When she no longer gives it he will move on to number 16, 20, 30 or whatever the truth is.

HL,
what did that advice do for you? Im assuming it made you capable of putting up with the selfishness easier?

I'm afraid Im not interested in that. I want a wife who isn't selfish like this, or no wife at all.

The only thing stopping me from ending this is again the kids. I assume that's why you chose the 180 instead of just seperating?

hope,
if what I said in earlier post reminds you of your wife, Im very sorry to hear that . <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

lang,

Ever heard the saying you don't know what you got till it's gone?

What the 180 does is it makes them understand what they do have.

When dealing with a selfish person they feel entitled to almost everything.

The 180 made my FWW realize, without me leaving, that she is not entitled to anything from me unless she is willing to give it right back.

I chose the 180 because with the kids I couldn't do a plan B without ending my M. That was because before I could leave I needed a custody arangement in writing. If I left it would kill my chances of child custody. She would not leave. Nor would she agree to the child custody that I would get in a D.

So it was either a D or nothing there was not in between not even a separation. If we separated child custody would have killed any chance of us ever reconciling.

What the 180 can do is show your W what her selfishness is doing to your M.

You keep telling her you want to work it out. As long as she thinks you are willing to stay no matter what why would she change?

I realized my FWW kept doing the same selfish things because she thought I would never leave. She would hear some complaining or me being angry but in the end I was always there for her.

One day she woke up and I was done doing everything for her that I had done. No more calls during the day. No more I care about trying to save this M.

Finally I told her I was emotionally detached and I was indifferent to her. I said the opposite of love is not hate it is indifference.

I told her she had been indifferent this whole time so I will just act the same way. This was a few weeks after the 180.

Imagine feeding someone crap sandwiches for so long and expecting them to be the great H he has always been.

So with the 180 she stopped getting what she wanted. I made it clear if she wanted to change things I was more then open to it. If she can start thinking about me more instead of herself more it might change. I told her what you have shown me is you think about yourself and I think about you. Now you can think about yourself and I will think about myself and we will see how it works.

Guess what it didn't work very well for her.

I understand, but my question now is...

did it or do you think it will work?
She may now see the point, but will it change anything?

one other thing,
I realize there are a few stories out there just like mine, but did any of your spouses look at you in the face and admit to the selfishness, then proceed to tell you straight out that they dont want to change?