There is one thing that most FWS's say on MB and that is telling details and telling the "real" truth feels like a very hurtful thing to do.

It is always taken by the members of MB and probably the BS as a means of self preservation or unwillingness to face consequences.

Please believe me when I say that to stand in front of someone who looks like their whole world has suddenly collapsed and then to twist the knife further is a horrible thing to do to someone.

From reading here, I've learned that twisting the knife is what BS's want. They ache for every detail.

We're human you know, we know we've caused suffering. Most of us DO love the person we've hurt most in the world and it really is a very difficult thing to do.

Please don't take it as "our" self preservation. It's a natural human reaction to seeing someone (especially someone we care about) in pain.

I'm sure there are some WS's who enjoy twisting the knife. I've read things here that have made my hair curl, like a BS's wife telling him he "was too small" and other horrific foggy things that WS's have said.

But the knife was stabbed in the back and twisted with the ACT OF ADULTERY. Telling your victim the truth is REMOVAL OF THE KNIFE. Yes, it hurts like he11 coming out, but it is therapeutic. It is the key to healing.

I am sure it is horrible to sit there and watch the consequences of your affair on the other person. Yes, adultery is a terrible thing to do to someone, but it is not the TRUTH that is causing that pain, but the ADULTERY. It is a natural reaction to avoid facing those consequences.

I know that now Mel, but I didn't know that till I came here. What I really want is to tell FWS's to tell all but also to tell BS's that it isn't just self preservation that stops FWS's telling all.

It's not the fact of facing the consequences that upsets us. Heck, most of us know there are consequences to be faced and are willing to face them. When my H finally called me a b****, I felt almost relieved.

The point of my post was to say that, even though it seems like self preservation it almost always isn't.

I'm a FWW (yes I am) and every time I revealed another detail it was awful. If you have any love or caring or empathy left in you it feels terrible to inflict further hurt. It's the ones who don't have any caring or empathy left and tell all because they want the other person to suffer that worry me the most.

I'm sure some WS's withhold out of self preservation but I bet a great deal of FWS's don't.

But isn't that exactly WHY it really is all about self preservation? It "feels terrible" for *YOU*. It is PAINFUL for *YOU* to watch the consequences of your behavior on your spouse. A WS will naturally want to AVOID that pain. That is WHY it is about self preservation. That doesn't mean the WS won't feel some empathy, that is another matter entirely.

It is not fun to watch the reaction of a BS in pain, because it is to watch the CONSEQUENCES of your affair. The natural reaction is to avoid those consequences.

The BS "suffers" in a therapeutic sense, though. That is important to remember. It is like getting a ROOT CANAL. It is painful as ****** but it is therapeutic and eliminates disease.

It might be "painful" for the mother to watch her child get one, but only the most selfish, cruel mother would withold the much needed root canal because it "caused the child pain." We wouldn't conclude that she LOVED the child if she did that. We would conclude that she selfishly denied the child much needed health care because of her own discomfort at watching the child in pain.

KiwiJ,

I have to say that my H refusing to tell me what I need to know, or even to discuss his cheating with me, is what I consider "twisting the knife". When he told me that he didn't admit to his ONS because he didn't "want to hurt me", it was like he pulled the knife out as he twisted and then stabbed me again. Why? Because he hurt me WORSE by denying the ONS, by denying giving me an STD, and claiming that I must have been the one who cheated That was on top of verbal abuse and telling me that I was crazy.

My H's trying to determine what I need to know is something that I consider very disrespectful.

LadyClueless is right, withholding information is TWISTING THE KNIFE because it is adding MORE LIES to the mix. Telling the truth is pulling the knife OUT.

No it feels terrible because it is inflicting pain. Your own feelings are nothing at the time. You don't want the OTHER person to hurt.

Mel, we're on the same page here but it's very worthwhile to discuss it.

When my DS was 2 she was hospitalised with asthma. She had an IV and had to stay in an alien environment overnight without me there. I FELT her pain. In fact I made myself unpopular with the hospital staff by turning up at 6.00am the next morning and INSISTING I be with her.

I know that not revealing everything is the most important thing you can do. I'm not saying that. I'm just trying to explain the REASON that most FWS's can't come completely clean and that the reason is misunderstood so often on MB.

I think it's great that you're saying that complete honesty is essential. I hope that FWS's will read this and understand why they must come completely clean.

Mel, I can't believe you had to do the job I should have done. Looking back now it was so STUPID of me. Everything, the meetings with the OM, the not telling Rob.

Believe me, I HAVE LEARNED.

I understand this, Jen. And I do understand that it would be very hard to watch. But a WS causes MORE PAIN by withholding. That is why there is no legitimate reason to NOT tell the BS. A WS who claims to not tell his victim because he "would be hurt" is simply not being honest since its never in the victims best interest to NOT know. That is a true lack of empathy.

Mel, and Kiwi... I think you are coming at this from two different sides.

Kiwi, from what I am hearing... this is what many WS's feel at the time. I would think that during this time, they might still be in withdrawal... might still be foggy. Leading up to this time, there taker has been very practiced. They see the hurt and tell themselves they are going to hurt the BS more. I've already hurt them enough I can't do more now.

Mel... this is what there foggy brain is telling them. You are correct that it is a selfish act... but I believe Kiwi is saying the intention is not selfish. They are not aware at that point that telling is helping. Even when the BS tells them this (like in my case), they still felt they were doing the right thing... probably for the 1st time in a while... for the BS.

I think you are both right. It is selfish to hold back the truth... but the intention is to be helpful... it just isn't.

Shaden

Jen, I know how it feels to get stuck like that. I felt your paralysis because I have been there. It is a horrible feeling to be stuck between abject FEAR and the gut wrenching twist of conscience. I just hope if I ever do something similar, you will return the favor and call my DH and bust my sorry [censored]! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Quit being such a Canadian!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

This is helpful for me to hear, because my W was like that... and still is to a lesser extent. She just hasn't had any help in telling her otherwise... our MC at the time (who I no longer see) agreed with her, so she felt it was the best thing.

But... I could never tell if she was truly withholding for my sake, or for her sake. What I mostly wanted was not the details but her willingness to trust me to be honest with me and to show me respect and love. I think Kiwi is saying that possibly the intention was in love. It just wasn't the correct choice.

Shaden

Wow, I am glad to hear you say that.

It is my opinion that you are right on some levels why FWS do not come clean... however failing to tell the whole truth all at once is the most painful thing they can do. It prolongs the inevitable and that is sadistic. There are quite a few... I would bet more than not... that don't tell everything because they don't want to look bad.

If I can, I would like to point something out that I believe you said within the past few days in Pios thread...
I will find the quote and post it here... but I can tell you that more than a few BS were very offended at the comment... you mentioned that you had a small sense of how Rob felt because of a perceived betrayal on that thread (people having sport with you behind your back if I remember correctly). I would just suggest that you do not take something that trivial and in any way compare it to the insult of infidelity.

If your feelings above are indeed genuine KiwiJ, I would also suggest that maybe it is time for you to try and mend some of the fences that you broke some months back. There were a lot of good people that laid into you for your actions... but they did it because they cared about you and you were screwing up BIG time. It is my belief that you have had a lot of valuable stuff to offer in the past to those in need... perhaps you can once again be that person... a beacon of light for a WS or FWS that needs to hear the hard reality of stumbling while in recovery. Not everyone will have such an understanding spouse as you. This is just a suggestion.

This is one time I'm proud to be a Canadian. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree Mel. I'm not really talking about my situation. I understand the need for total honesty. I didn't go through the flaming I went through on the board not to have learned anything. I'm addressing what I've read lately. It's not instinctive though. Human nature dictates that when we've caused hurt we don't want to cause further hurt. Not if you're any sort of decent human being anyway.

That's why when WS's or FWSs come here I hope they'll learn what they REALLY need to do to minimise hurt. And that is to be totally honest.

I hear what you're saying, Mel... that they are preserving themselves because it hurts them... but again, I go to what the intention was... what their thought pattern was at the time... which is more important, in this case, to me.

Shaden

I oughta shoot this man! foreigners! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

here it is

Shaden, you're not listening.

That is EXACTLY what my post was all about. Any decent human being, and I'm not talking about WS's who just love to inflict pain, does NOT withhold information because of self preservation, they withhold it because they do not wish to inflict FURTHER pain. It didn't HURT ME to withhold information, I didn't want to inflict further pain.

Shaden, I have a huge amount of respect for you. Please read my post carefully.