When the WS used to babble to me and try to play that 'blame game'.....I used to tell him that I was past blaming him. Basically had to reverse babble because the stuff spewing out of his mouth to my ears were soooo stupid, it wasn't worth responding to. So I told him, he could blame whoever he wanted to enable his A but the rest of the sane world knew better. Ha! Then I'd make my exit.

In a sense I got some relief. I gave him back his blame and guilt. Didn't resolve it all but lessened my stress. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Reverse babble....gotta love it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

I will try that Orchid if my Plan B works. I'm on day 3. He emailed me yesterday but I didn't respond. That doesn't count as contact does it? I didn't initiate it. We do have to sign some house papers though so not sure how I can work around that. I think I'm going to have to talk to him before the end of the month. I'm actually really enjoying this time of not having to defend myself and worrying about what he is up to and who he is talking to. I guess it is practice for how I will have to be if I actually want to try and renegotiate a new relationship if he gets help for his addictions.

Meanwhile, I have so much work to do on myself. I have awful big holes in my boundaries. It is daunting. I wish I hadn't fried my brain so much with booze and drugs when I was a teenager. I read something good though that I am trying to get into my long term memory.

A man's behavior does not have to equal a negative reaction of feeling inside you.

As an alcoholic, I am very selfish and immature. I think everything he does and says he does to piss me off. If I turn that around though I realize that everything I do or say has nothing to do with him it is all about me and how I feel so I see his stuff is his stuff. It has nothing to do with me. He also suffers from the same disease I do. I keep forgetting the 3 c's. I didn't cause it, can't control it or cure it.

I'm trying to raise my awareness and he just is not ready (if ever) If I could only remember all these important lessons I think my life would be much easier. I say a prayer. Help me remember, remember, remember not to forget, forget, forget. Of course the serenity prayer is good too. Letting my higher power work through my life makes everything easier and not letting myself get too hungry, angry, lonely or tired. Thanks for being here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

TBH,

How r u doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

still in no contact. all ringers off in the house. going to meetings twice a day. taking my prozac, making friends. got a nice lady who seems willing to be my sponsor. made a nice male friend but I find myself very attracted to him which is not good.

I'm VERY vulnerable. I hope me being aware of everything will help calm down my chemical reactions to this new male friend. He is good looking, going through a divorce, has kids, is in AA (1.5yrs), educated, great job, we have way too much in common. Well not the great job part. lol

I am very honest though and I've told him all my fears and what I'm going through. I need to be able to deal with male friends but unfortunately my main love language is quality time and he loves to spend time with me. So now I'm having this huge emotional need met by this new man plus he is lonely too. Hasn't been with anyone in years. His wife was very mean to him (no sex) but to be fair he was an active alcoholic and most of us know that isn't such a turn on.

My boundaries are there but weak oh so weak. Wouldn't take much for me to sob in this mans arms and then where would that go? Then I am no better than my husband committing adultery. I feel so trapped. Trapped in a loveless, alcoholic marriage, unavailable to even reach out for physical comfort to this lovely man who I'm sure would be more than happy to comfort me.

It is a good thing though for me to learn patience to get to know someone instead of jumping into bed with them. That was my MO before my husband. Back then I was an active alcoholic, drug addict grabbing at any scrap of love I could get. Very immature, so now the real learning begins. Now my new real life will start to form up. Who will be in it? I still pray my husband but I lose hope. Definitely MB! lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BH,

Stop with this new male AA friend entirely. That's how you enforce your boundaries...having boundaries is useless without enforcement.

Why? You know in the program, you don't get opposite sex sponsors...for this same reason...intimate honesty leads to intimate relationships. Stop now.

There are women as connected, going through the same thing...and you have a red flag here of believing this guy about his marriage...when your WH said the same thing to his OW..." plus he is lonely too. Hasn't been with anyone in years. His wife was very mean to him (no sex) but to be fair he was an active alcoholic and most of us know that isn't such a turn on."

Keep that in mind...people who seek to be intimate with others who are not their spouses (and they are STILL married), are looking to get their ENs filled the easy way...with a clean slate, comraderie and instant connections. Sounds like what you're saying was your way, too...fitting your own pattern.

Not a healthy pattern. Great recognition...now do the tough thing and do not further speak to this guy until you both can show each other a divorce certificate in person.

Your focus on yourself...has been the hardest thing for you...that weird dichotomy of being selfish and immature and self-evasive, all at the same time...don't use others as distraction fodder...which was a payoff in your WH's choices...constant distraction.

Center on your center, BH...take those actions and trust them to be the best for you right now, even if you don't feel like doing it. Build that emotional muscle for the long-range...you can do this.

Spend time journaling to self, talking with your sponsor, and making those meetings...build that self-love through focus, acceptance and understanding, 'k?

Appreciate your honesty and your posts.

LA

Yes it is distraction fodder. I am so alone it is so hard to be so alone. I also do learn so much though practicing on an unavailable man. I am so out of practice. I feel I could practice my boundary holding on him. I'm going to have to eventually try it out on somebody. I am in my prime. I don't want to be alone. He claims to be just looking for a friend but to me it is dating. We are having fun getting to know each other. My husband wants me to date other guys. He is eager for me to meet someone else and be happy as then it lets him off the hook.

"Intimate honesty leads to intimate relationships."

Right that is what is eventually going to happen with any man I hang out with. How fast it happens is the boundary I need to test. I have to do the same thing with my husband that is why I say this is practice.

I had to fight my husband off so I wasn't intimate with him. I do not want to be the other woman in his emotional affair with his "special phone friend" I don't think avoiding situations with all men is going to give me any practice. I have to be strong enough when I am being honest with someone to still say no to an intimate relationship. Otherwise my husband will always take advantage of me. He will lie and after a week or 2 I will forget and be intimate falling back into old comfy patterns but if I know I could hold out with Mr. Perfect AA man then I know I could hold out being intimate with WH. Anyway that is my warped thinking at the moment.

I know you are right LA I should not distract myself but I'm just the type of person that needs to experience every painful life experiment myself. I cannot learn from seeing I have to do. I even then sometimes I have to do and do and do and do before I learn.

You are right that my WH said the same thing to his OW but this AA guy has almost finished all the dirty details. They will be signing the papers soon. I don't care though as that is none of my business. I just met the guy and I'm married myself. I know what is going on with me so that is all that matters to me right now.

I'm just exploring my own messed up thinking and trying to find out my weaknesses concerning men. Practice makes perfect. I'll keep you all honestly updated. I wonder if my husband will ever come on here and read. He knows I hang here. That wouldn't be so cool if I'm trying to do a pitch black plan b and here I am blabbing my life all over the internet lol I'm not to annonymous. I've used my same name for years. Oh well, honesty is still the best policy in my book. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I read through your thread and wonder if you have heard of Steven Stosny - I am reading his book "You Don't Have to Take it Anymore" - you can check it out on his website www.compassionpower.com - it's the only thing I've read that rings all my bells between me and my WH - the first part is written towards the woman of an abusive partner, the second part is his HEALs program for abusive men - he apparently has an 80+ percent success rate. It's the only thing I've read that explains to me why all the counselling, marriage counselling and attempts to deal with my WH's addictive tendencies just made everything worse. He talks about how much women of abusive partners hate themselves and what it does to them, and also why it is they still love their abusive partners. He also talks about how much abusive men hate themselves and why that makes them hurt you more. He talks about how hard it is to set boundaries when the other person doesn't respect your right to set boundaries. He talks about why abusive men are the way they are and what you can do to change your life. He helps you find yourself again - find compassion for yourself, so that you are able to look after yourself again, something you have forgotten how to do. Your husband's lack of care for you has made you feel not worthy of care. He says your first job is to heal your own heart first....then you can try to help your husband, and if he does not want to listen, the most compassionate thing you can do for HIM, as well as yourself, is to not allow him to mistreat you any more.

Like I said, I'm in the middle of reading this book, so I'm no expert, but it has given me hope for myself, at least, and maybe someday for my WH. If you have been in an abusive situation, you might find it helps you and gives you hope. I know some other MBuilders have used it, including JustJ - and I found it through a link on someone else's thread.

Right now I'm not good at helping people, but I thought I'd let you know this is out there, if you haven't heard about it.

Take care

Thanks! that is very helpful. I am still looking for that magic book, pill or movie that is going to sum it all up for me. I really liked what the bleep do we know it is a movie where spirituality meets science and it answered a lot of questions about why people do what they do for me. I also have read the verbally abusive relationship by patricia evans. My problem is I forget so easily everything.

Sounds like an awesome book. I read something here on abandoholics and abandophobics and I am most definitely one of those. Old patterns, yikes! I have huge unresolved abandonment issues and my poor brain wiring has been some fried by all the pot and acid I took as a teenager. I hear it comes back a bit if you work your recovery hard. I'm most definitely feeding my brain good stuff these days so I think I'm doing all that I can do.

I'm off for a fun weekend with my new AA buddy. We talked about all the above stuff as we are on the same page about being careful. I'll tell you how it went when I get back. Bye for now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I came back the next day from the 'fun' weekend. It was fun during the day but the night was super ackward. Being a man he did lust after me but I held firm to my boundaries and then said I should probably be taken home the next day. He said okay and was embarassed but I told him not to be it is flattering but just the timing is all wrong for me.

We talked about everything and I told him I needed to be focused on my recovery. I've been to 3 meetings since getting back. We did go together to a pychic fair. He paid for me to get a reading. That pychic was bang on and told me I had lots of work to do in the next year and I will heal through love but of course she said I already knew all of this I just had to Do it. I have to redefine what love looks like to me. She knew I had two children.

She said Jan. I will make a decision to go one way or another and both will be good. My husband is not the love of my life and she says I will limit myself so much trying to be with a man that has proven himself willing to hurt me. Not only willing but still doing it right now! I already have one [censored] do I really need two?

It was a great reading my head is all aswhirl with how the next year of my life is going to look. I will be listening to my tape again and making notes and working my steps. She drew a picture of the love of my life. He very cute and has hair. It is not my AA friend. lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well I only lasted 8 days again with no contact. I responded to an email he sent me about the house, support money and some of the kids stuff. I'm all devastated and crying again as I begged him in the email to get the kids some help, counseling etc. as I think it is easier to deal with such stuff when you are young than when you are say my age and you've tried so hard to make the trauma go away with booze and drugs. Now I am finally trying to deal with it. Better late than never I guess. I know I am on a better path but why do I still yearn so badly for those denial/fog years? I miss my family. I don't know what real love is. I know what it isn't. Love shouldn't hurt.

Dont ever forget that God is your help!, he can give you peace that the anti depressants will not, my husband rented the movie what the bleep do we know?, and I like the way it showed how are brain works and the addictive behavior, but I did not like the way it was so new agey talking about the big bang and all, I just want to let you know God cares for you very much,
sometimes we feel that he is far away, but he is really right there with you all the time.he is always waiting for you to talk with him, spend time with him. so he can give you his peace, joy, and fill your heart with love and the desire to forgive your husband. I know his strength can get you through this, he got me through my troubles.
I remember years ago going through my most painful time in my life (so far) finding out my husband was cheating, and I went to my doctor for a regular check up, she asked me how I was doing and I did not expect her to act so caring, and I started crying uncontrolibly, I still dont know why, but right away she put me on anti depressants, and I started taking them ,but they made me numb to the world they made me not care about anything, and I lost my desire to eat, ( not so bad cause I lost 30 pounds in 1 month)lol.
but I know of some people who have been suicidal and the anti depressants made it worse not better, so if your still having thoughts of suicide you may want to eather stop taking them or see your doctor and have them put you on something else.
I eventually stopped taking mine and felt 100% better,
I know its so hard, and as for the kids, if you talk to them on the phone or whatever kindly ask them not to say anything about her dad and OW, you really dont need anymore stress added and you need to focus on getting yourself better. praying you will reach to God in your time of need!.Love Lisa

Thanks Lisa! I have been working my recovery and my relationship with God really hard the last 10 days or so. I have a bad feeling though that Plan B is sort of like quiting drinking. You start to feel really good and back to just being yourself and then whamo the slip/relaps/contact. I felt not to bad after all the emails back and forth last night. He called and I answered the phone. I stayed at home when he came by to get some of the kids stuff we ended up going out for a lovely lunch and then some really close contact as I had been so messed up I wanted the natural feel good endorphins. I feel great right now as I am not confused at what is going on but of course my Plan B is right out the window.

I guess I went back to a one day awesome Plan A. I must learn to let go with love though so I can forgive and heal myself. I will be talking to my kids in a couple of days and we made some tentative plans for me to see them next week. I will set firm boundaries. I will work hard at my program. I will work hard at letting go of control.

I am doing okay with the anit-depressants. I take one every other day and it is okay. I tried a couple of others and could not stomach the side effects but I was taking them daily. I am super sensitive so every other day or every 3 days is okay with me. I'm not too worried about it. I like to think of it as eating a big plate of spaghetti just making more seretonin avail.

I used to take tons of acid and mushrooms and other designer drugs when I was younger and I never worried about what I was doing to myself. At least I don't play russian roulette with my brain chemistry like that anymore. I have looked into the anti-depressant thing and I will be sure to keep a close watch on my suicidal thoughts. So far I have not gone back to the day I started this thread so that is improvement in my opinion. I was even thinking I should change my topic heading so you should add this to your favourites if I change it you maybe not be able to follow TBH saga. Thanks for all your awesome advice I read it over and over to get it into my mushy brain. lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm trying to read a lot here again. I am busy getting ready for my week holiday. I got rid of the AA guy. You were all right like usual, intimate conversations led to him badly wanting an intimate relationship and of course me being an abandoholic once I knew he wanted me that badly there was no more attraction, abandoholic = because of unresolved childhood abandonment issues my guts tell me emotionally unavailable people (ie-active alcholics like my husband) are very attractive. I am going to take all of this up in counseling soon. I want to resolve these issues. I know it will take a long time but I have an awesome sponsor and she is helping me tons. I feel sorry for my AA friend but now I can refocus on me. They do tell you to stay away from relationships with men in early recovery for a good reason. He is 1.5 years into the program but acts more like 6 months and he has not even gone through all the steps so I forgive him for trying to take advantage of my vulnerablility. It is all a good learning experience. Hopefully I will remember and not have to repeat with other male AA members.

My husband has started to respond to my attempts to let go of the past, hurts, resentments etc. I get the feeling he is liking this new me and how he is feeling around me. When he sees me happy he wants to be around me more. Imagine lol

I also have been thinking very hard about something I read here. I think it was something LA said. It went something like this

"I've been campaigning my entire marriage for him to substitute what he wants/feels/likes for whatever I think is best for the marriage."

This is totally me. I felt his drinking and drugging and his A were way wrong for a good family etc. but all my smashing around controlling attempts never did one whit of betterment for the family. If anything it made it all worse. So strip, strip, strip through the illusions once again.

So I am just focusing on me and my higher power and letting go and letting his higher power help him with his addictions. I may have to go no contact again but for right now I need the contact even though he is still having his emotional phone calling affair, lighter drinking and smoking pot, it is not in my face that much and it is easier for me to detach. I have to learn how to let go for my own happiness.

He says he will join me on my holiday with the children in a few days. I'll be sure to update. I've been talking to my kids a lot they sound so happy. My husband responds well to intense responsiblity. It helps him find meaning in his life and stay out of trouble. I do better alone and staying out of trouble than he does. I use my time as wisely as I can. I know this transition period will not last forever. I look forward to spending time with my family and I will try hard not to plan any outcomes. bye for now and thanks once again for all your help and compassionate words.

Hope you're doing
ok-just sending you a hug-jersey

Ditto and sending hugz from middle of the big blue. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
L.