I'm collecting the nerve and phone numbers (OK, just the nerve).

I spoke with the wife of the second physical affair after I discovered it. Long, twisted tale, but it was helpful to know he had someone who was dedicated to keeping him in line. I have to call her back and tell her he didn't stop trying to contact my wife. It will probably be hard on her, especially if she wants to see the emails.

You are 100% correct that it is the right thing to do and I will get on it.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Good job, Artor.

We know it isn't easy to deliver bad news.

Remember to recommend MB as a resource and to make plans to keep in touch as conditions warrant.

What ever you do, DO NOT tell your wife you're doing this.

WAT

Well, I did it.

I spoke with the wife of the man involved in the emotional affair and the wife of the man from the second physical affair that has continued to contact my wife.

Very difficult conversations -- especially with the wife of the emotional affair. All I had were inappropriate email and inuendos as well as a history of regular contact with inappropriate conversation.

Interestingly, after I hung up with her, he called me and we talked. He first tried to play dumb with me -- pretended not to remember the email and calls. I would have none of that and eventually, he admitted the contact was inappropriate and wrong. Surprisingly, he then conferenced in his wife to the phone call.

He maintained that he and my wife were "just really good friends". When asked (by both of us) why he created a secret email account, he said (eventually) that it was because he knew it would hurt his wife if she found out. That floored me. I then took the opportunity to tell him I expect there to be "No further contact between him and my wife FOREVER".

I came to find out later, talking with my wife, that he tried to call her cell phone that day. After I hung up with his wife, he tried to call me, but I didn't have good cell reception. I then called her and she told me he had tried to call but some "people" had walked into his office and he'd call me back soon. I guess it could have been people in his office, but the timing was too canny -- I believe he spoke briefly with his wife about my call and then tried to call my wife to find out what was going on.

The second call (to the wife of the latest physical affair) went as expected. She is truly confused and hurting in regard to his behavior. She seems to be sincerely a loving and honest woman who just wants her husband and marriage back. It hurt to tell her the truth about her husband's continued contact, but I had promised her when the affair was discovered to tell her if I found out they were still in contact. She, in the course of the conversation, filled me in on details her husband had told her of the affair that my wife never told me.

This is important....

I sincerely and honestly wish both families all the best and hope they manage to survive this. It is devestating (I know from experience) but not necessarily a fatal blow. I trust they will, with the grace of God, be able to find the strength to overcome.

this was difficult

you did a really good job

((( hugs )))

Pep

Good job Artor

As far as telling them about MB I would advise against it. Sooner or later the OP's end up finding out about it and then you end up confronted with a disclosed or undisclosed poster mucking up your support system.

You found us first. Let them find there own support.

Mr. Wondering

Thank you. Yes, it was difficult indeed.

They both thanked me for the information and courage.

My wife, on the other hand, took the response that I expected -- she said, "Don't bother setting up that counseling appointment. I won't be going."

I'm hoping she's steamed and is cooling off.

I love her and took a positive stand to do what I could to end this cycle and take definitive action to save our marriage.

Thanks

Actually, the wife (BW) and husband (WH) of the second physical affair both had already known about Marriage Builders. I don't know if they post or read the forum, but if they do, they can see that I love my wife and wish them both the best in their efforts to recover their marriage.

Just a quick note - You all ready have great advice, and I just wanted to add one thing.
you said that you would not be able to afford to keep your daughters in cheer leading and dance without your wifes income, and didn't want them to suffer by pulliing them out of their activities. In all reality - if your WW does leave, move out of state, and let you "have the girls" she would most likely owe you child support. If she throws that statement out there again, expecially in light of her flat out refusal to get counseling, I would politely ask her to put it in writing.

Your wife is about to have a great big dose of reality. She is throwing out idle threats, to get her way. But when she starts to see the truth -that if she really did move out of state, she would not have a daily relationship with her girls, and if she ended up paying you child support - util the girls are 21 years old as long as they are in school - she would not have the happy go lucky life she thinks she would have.

the typical WS does not really think past today, and when they are hit with the reality of losing their children, and not affording the lifestyle they are used to, many times that is the wake up call they need.

Hang in there. Take a stand for marriage. It is NOT Ok for a spouse to have secret emails, and to continue to have secret relationships with another womans husband.

Thank you.

I had thought about that, but she makes about a third of what I make and I'm not sure if she would be made to pay support. I would certainly serve as a dose of reality to her to think she may have to defend against it in court.

I want her to stay close to our daughters. I hope that will be the case no matter how she feels about me.

I love her and hope that after some cooling off she'll see that what I did in contacting the OM's wives was not easy or vindictive, but a definitive statement about the importance and priority of our marriage.

Please pray for us, the other families and, mostly, my girls. I ache for them already.

the affair-wife is brain warped

there is no rational thought process going on

it's all emotional generated reactive bull**it

Pep

don't give much credence to her words

try and comfort her without discussing the validity of what she says

like:

"I can see how upset you are. I'm upset too."

Good advice. Thank you.

It's hard not to take it personally and overlook the intentional hurt and wounds her words leave.

When I confronted her about the continued contact, I got the "I hate you" and "I want a divorce" lines. After waiting a few hours, she softened and said she wanted to work on our marriage. I don't know if she has ulterior plans (keep me going until the kids graduate and then blow the coop) or if she's sincere.

I can only hope that continued expression of love for her and demonstrated dedication to our marriage will win her back from the "dark side".

Thank you for the encouragement.

expect her to be emotionally unstable for months to come
(unfortunately)

Pep

Artor, I couldn't disagree more with Mr. W on this.

Yep, this is a public forum, and yep, sometimes strategy discussed here, if too early revealed to an WS or OP may muck up the battle, but to NOT offer MB as a resource seems very not Golden Rule-ish to me. I think the odds are better that it'll be a benefit for all rather than a risk to you.

"You found us first. Let them find there own support." Gee, Mr. W - how loving. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Artor -


"...that day"?

What day? You mean today? You just called them today, right?

I'm confused.

WAT

A valid point, but I do understand the caution Mr. Wondering is proferring.

I have often worried that the level of detail about the events would be identifiable by those involved should they participate in the MB site.

But I figured the potential risk was worth the effort to find help.

I have decided, much as he is suggesting, to be careful what I post and how much detail prior to my actions I share.

Both are excellent points and I would not want either couple to be denied the help that can be found here in the recovery of their marriage.

As it is, they already knew about it and were following the "system". He slipped backward big time and they will have a long hill ahead of them.

Be in prayer for all of us.

WAT,

It's not a matter of being uncaring or unloving. It's a matter of being wise.

Consider this, a month down the road when OM starts posting to Artor (or his then FWW) herein and Artor (or his then FWW) has to pack up an leave cause he's either being harassed by OM, annoyed by OM or he fears his wife may join in a read OM (thus breaking NC) then who is helped at all by MB. In the end, all four (or 6 individuals in Artor's case) can't utilize MB for fear of bumping into each other. Nobody is then served well by MB.

Some considerations:

1. It is my general observation that help/support is best received when it is sought out by one's own efforts.

2. BS's don't take kindly to any help offered them from OP's (even when it comes from their BS)

3. If OM's W comes here there is to much risky contact btwn the two BS's that are equally and mutually tempted to undertake a revenge affair.

4. If you don't tell OP's Spouse about MB, they will not seek to monitor or just lurk to keep an eye on you nor will they even consider trying to find you cause they have no idea you are even here. Artor may just leave if he suspects he is being monitored whether such is true or not.

5. Exposure is help enough...there is no obligation or golden rule requiring the BS to "help" the other BS further.

It's OK to advise it and do it. To each his own. It's certainly nice to offer the help but may lack forsight to possible future complications and should perhaps be discussed.

If you still disagree...we can agree to disagree. It's really just logic to me....no biggie.

Mr. Wondering

Yea, I still disagree and it isn't a minor point, IMHO.


When OM starts posting to Artor?

In my more-than-a-few-years here, I don't recall an OP ever posting to a BS on this forum. If it's happened at all, it's very rare.

Even IF OM would want to communicate with Artor, donchathink he'd do it more directly instead of on a forum populated by affair naysayers?

I agree that all posters should assume some risk of having "spys" read what they write here and potentially feeding back to folks whom they didn't intend to see it. I experienced this very thing during my affair fighting days when I wrote something stupid. But if posters are honest and always mindful that what they write may fall into "enemy" hands, this shouldn't be a problem. Heck, I would have loved if my WS or OP had read what I was writing - for the most part. On the occasions when posts regarding exposure or legal stuff strategy are made, the sensitivity obviously goes up and a poster may want to edit out certain "intelligence" after obtaining whatever forum input they were seeking.

It's just a no brainer to me that news of MB be provided to the exposed-to BS. I will continue to recommend this. If you disagree, don't recommend it.

Peace.

WAT

Quote:

"In my more-than-a-few-years here, I don't recall an OP ever posting to a BS on this forum. If it's happened at all, it's very rare."

It is rare, but there have been posts by OPs to FWSs that have breached NC.

One, in particular, resulted in the resuming of the A.

Very, very tragic and sad.

While I believe this is a unique case, I suspect this is where Mr. W. is coming from.

Katie Mae

WAT, while I personally know a poster that the OMW send her here and it did the job for the OMW, I also know a BS and FWS that was followed and harrassed by the OP here. On top of that my H's xOW found out I post here and tried to find ME. Sooo, while I agree it may help Artors effort to reconcile his M if the other couple have these tools, I do caution him to be careful of putting any strategy details on his thread.