No, we do not all "know" this. As a matter of fact, on BP's "hill that I die on" thread, neverthesame said

NB - you are not alone. My dh and I got involved while I was still married to my ex - separated with my ex filing divorce (he filed on me before I could file on him on grounds of physical abuse - including police had been out more than once). My ex was extermely abusive in every sense of the word (physically including threatening my life on several occasions, sexually and emotionally abusive also).

I was in a very vulnerable spot and really messed up on getting involved WAY too soon. I wish I knew then what I KNOW now as far as boundaries and waiting to get involved for a year or two AFTER the divorce goes through. Not just the legal separation. My now dh had also been cheated on by his long time girlfried and she had got pregnant by another guy and dumped dh. So we were both vulnerable but we still have awful guilt from mhow the relationship started.

It has been h_ll over the past 7.5 years trying to deal with the fallout of getting involved way too soon. We have 5 children together so we are really working on our marriage - but I don't recommend what we did to anyone. It would have been SO much better for me to get divorced and then the 2 years before getting involved with anyone. I'm just NOW getting into therapy as well as MC.

I don't know now if I'm welcome or not now but I didn't want NB to feel like she's alone. I also know as a Christian that I'm forgiven and that God's grace is there for me - though I have to live with the consequences of my choices.

NBII,

My dear one. I sensed one day you were going to post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It isn't the 1st time this raw subject has touched the sensitive nerves in our lives. Life does that at times.

This is definitely a learning place. Believe it or not, my learning has come from many people from all situations. Even the lessons from the infamous OW herself (PBR) was a lesson t/b learned. I have always tried to take the positive out of every good and bad experience and move forward, which I believe is what we also learn here.

I didn't come until after a lot of your situation was already in the works but through it all, your sense of support never waivered. I truly respect you and all the help you have given me personally. I loved the way you are able to get right to the heart of things and always looked forward to your words of wisdom. I miss getting jokes & recipes from you..... please e-mail when you can (mborchid2@yahoo.com). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Do I want you to leave? No. But I want you t/d what is best for you. I feel it is best for you to stay and help us through this current hump/slump here @ MB. We have been through worse..... or were we just more fiesty then? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This A marriage stuff. That seems like a conflicting title. Seems it s/b more like....they had an A, did the D then married. As I stated in other threads, the recovery for these start farther back as a result. Can they recover? Can. Will they? That's a personal choice? Should we impose our 'opinions' if help or no help if such ones come here NOT as WS' or OPs but as a category of WS/BS/spouse/BS? Hm...... that has been done but the perception of such is not as it has been lately.

It's really just a longer title. That's the simple answer. Calling one a Ws/BS/spouse/BS shows that their recovery road is a bit longer. That's all.

If one is able to learn and be taught, then they are a worthy student and can benefit from the good values learned in places like MB. If one chooses NOT to learn, then they won't no matter how good the teacher or place of learning.

I think that's the key. I recall a recent poster kept accusing me of trying to 'teach' her. To be honest, that was not my intent. I would not waste my time on someone who displayed such a lack of respect for those trying to share their POVs. I did try to share my POV a bit but when I met the wall of resistance....I stopped. I don't like bruises where there ought to be none. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> In that case whether she be a WS, BS, OP or anyone for that matter, MB couldn't have helped such a one who was NOT willing to learn.

NBII, I respect you greatly and look to you as one of the kind yet firm and loving mentors who took me under your wings of love, care and protection and helped me and my family. We owe you a debit of gratitude.

I can't force you to stay but I am not beneath begging. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Much Aloha,
L.

NBII,
This is also my POV.
And yes, it's better to not look for a partner on the rebound..
But that's a completely different thing.
I'm taking your experience to heart as I can completely understand the need for a nice, understanding partner when you've been hurt - that's where I am now, very vulnerable, yet resolved to deal with my own demons, rather than bringing them into a next R.

Don't leave unless you need to for yourself.
Help us face our demons, dear NBII, we can use all the help we get !

NBII,

Waht's done is done, you could cause a lot of pain trying to rectify it to someone else's definitions or you could deal with what you have and do your best. Your call, your choice. As for me I would do the later and always remember "we are all only human and we are prone to make mistakes". I do not believe one mistake should define a person for the rest of their life. Your call, Your choice.

Have a great day!

n_bII, coming late to your thread, so please forgive my tardiness. There is but one thing right now that I feel led to say to you as you consider your continued involvement in MB. May the Lord speak to your heart and may you in wisdom hear Him.


"Praise be to the God and Father our our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have receieved from God. For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows. If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort. (1Cor 1:3-7, emphasis added)

Many times I have thought of leaving MB due to many frustrations, etc. Yet the Lord keeps bringing me back to the above reality and the application of Romans 8:28 and Phillipians 4:13.

God bless.

dang, this was funny

AD .... you made my day!

LOL LOL LOL

Pep

Thank you for all your thoughts... I am reading along, whenever possible today (on my lunch right now).

Even Nellie, who said:


So, the upside is my downfall. Nice. But you're honest. Always have been. I respect that.

Still thinking about what to do... and certainly not venturing "out there" to other threads... the whole point, my whole point, remains true (about the potential for harm). If Nellie is right, I'm the poster girl for failure, which doesn't feel good, and is actually the first time since I began this thread that I actually felt *stung*... but that's okay, I'm a big girl. I can take it. I don't want to be a mockery, that's all.

NB,

You have said numerous times, in many ways, not to do what you did. You did not downplay the guilt or the difficulties and pain that resulted from your marriage. I was under the impression that right along you have seen your actions as the example that others should look at to see what not to do - I am not sure that is quite the same as the "poster girl for failure," though there are certainly similarities.

Before your involvement with your current husband, you were the poster who best exemplified how a WS should be. You were remorseful, you ended the affair quickly, you worked on your marriage, you posted and read here a lot, you gave excellent advice to others. That is probably why it felt so much like a betrayal when you, who rationally knew better, became involved with a MM - when you had the knowledge and experience to know you both were vulnerable, and while K and others were strongly advising you against what you were doing. It felt to me that if you, one of the wisest and most introspective posters here, could fall into that trap, then there was really no hope for any WS's, or any marriages impacted by infidelity, and all this marriage building stuff was a waste of time. If, on top of that, your marriage, a affair marriage that had been made possible by the existence of the MB site, had ended up happy and problem-free, it would been, to borrow the experession used in another thread, like twisting the knife.

I want my H to be happy - I want him to have a job he loves, I want him to have the love of his children, and I want him to be able to sit on the porch and look out at the his cows grazing in the field. I just don't want an affair marriage to make him happy, because that would mean that he was not the man I thought he was, and that his basic character was horribly flawed.

Similarly, I would prefer to see you happy - but not happy in an affair marriage.

You're right, Nellie. I have said that.

I've known your feelings all along, you know. And I seriously think you speak for many...

Everyone who was brave enough and kind enough to post to me on this thread:

A stanza from a poem I love ~

Wherever you journey,
and however your day may be,
part of me is there with you
as you... are here with me.

Jenn Davids

God bless, and goodnight (because I love a dramatic exit)

Dear Nellie:

Though I cannot take away what you feel (that I betrayed you), I am offering you a heartfelt apology. I am sorry that my actions caused you to feel betrayed. (ETA: I don't like the way I worded that. Instead, I am sorry that I betrayed YOU with my actions.) Please know that I, in no way, was thinking of anyone but myself when it happened.

I won't discuss this with you anymore because to do so brings both of us harm.

I care very much for you too, Nellie, and wish you well. I hope you and your children get all that you've worked so hard to attain.

EVERYONE,

I have given this a lot of thought over the last week (with prayers and tears, too).

I will join in when I feel it is safe to do so (i.e. when I feel that I will not bring purposeful harm).

I know I have a story to tell... a cautionary tale... and also a life experience that can be of benefit to those struggling to do the right things.

If nothing else, I am learning that I have value and worth -- partly because I have striven to rebuild my integrity, partly because as a Christian I am forgiven. And frankly, partly because I say it is so. (That was scary)

Thank you to ALL who entered this discussion... for your candor, for your care and for your continued patience with me: a work in progress.