hi ammm -

you say you have been with the kids every second of for years, but you do the bills, too, etc. are you a stay-at-home mom or do you work outside the home as well? could you be lacking other adult contact? sometimes this can make us lonely.

my best advice is to cut the other relationship out now - get into long-term counseling. call counselors and interview them. make sure the counslor is committed to saving the marraige, and make sure the counselor is willing to be tough on both of you. tell them you need someone to be aggressive and that your marriage is currently in a crisis state. understnad that counseling is long-term. a few visits here and there are not going to work - then is whne someone says just what the other wants to hear. do not let him get away with this and do not let yourself get away with this. be honest, and do not allow anything to be held-back and hidden during counseling. as Dr. Phil says, "get real."

as part of couseling, you should also present each other with a list of expectations. if you need him to pick up some slack with the kids, put on your list what makes you comfortable "give the kids a bath at least 3 times a week" and if you need some touch attention, put on your list that you would like a back massage one=ce a week, etc. if the drinking is truly a problem, put that you expect that 5 nights a week will be dirnk-free, etc. These are not big demands, but do not belly-ache for not getting something that you are too proud or stubborn to ask for. (I do not mean this in a mean way, but people cannot read our minds, we have to make our expectations known and ask for what we want if we are not getting it.) Also, when we tolerate behaviors for long times, we are partly responsible for the behavior - if we do not speak up about something that hurts us, then we play a part in being hurt.

sometimes we have to give more than 100% to a marriage. you feel like you have been giving more than 100% and is it possible your H might feel the same way? maybe he feels like he gives more too, or maybe he just doesn't really understand that you feel overwhelmed.

Also, love is about behavior more than feeling. You are looking for feelings, and such feelings do not last without cultivation over the long haul, and still they wax and wane. Do you want 3 marriages in your lifetime? 4 marriages? 5 marriages? Learn how to cultivate love in your current marraige by behaviors, because all other marraiges will themselves wax and wane without WORK.


allforone

I am not a stay at home mom. I am a special ed teacher. So....I drop my kids off at daycare, spend my day with other peoples children, then pick mine up. I don't want it to sound as if I am making excuses but I have tried what you said. I have asked for specific things that necer got done. We made lists together that were never followed through with. We did counseling together and seperate and the MC part was a joke. We have discussed the drinking and the farthest he got was calling AA, getting the information and then never mentioned another word about it. I think I have my own ideas about what needs to happen next - thanks for the advice!

I also wanted to add that you are so right - I acknowledge that I definitely need some adult contact. I am a social person and my husband is more of a hermit. I ask him all the time to do things - whether it be with the kids or on our own. I can't remember the last time he agreed. So....instead of staying home like I did for years, I started going it alone. Just this weekend, I asked him to come with to take the kids to this big play center, go to a friend's house to swim, go to dinner with my dad and myslef and take night or 2 and get away with me. Guess what the answer was? This was something our counselor suggested and the more I try, the more angry he gets. He says I ask him to do things that I know he won't do just to start a fight.

ammm

Well it's going to be no big surprise that I believe that you MUST stop the affair actions...

I am on the other hand very concerned about the man you are married...

and think you need to honestly decide if you believe that he will ever CHOOSE to step up to the plate and be a true partner who is cherished and cherishes you......

Is is capable of choosing to be in this marriage with you..

AND

is it possible he is having his own illicit relationships outside of the marriage....

his hostility is NOT accecptable..

What is the tone like in your day to day life in the home...

What is the children's exposure to his name calling..
(be very very honest about this.....)

what is the childrens exposure to seeing a man love their mom...

ARK

Ammmm, you can only control your own behavior. First on that list is getting rid of the affair and getting out of the chemical mess it'll leave your body in. Basically, you've got to get dry and sober before anything else. You see, all intimate relationships cause biochemical changes that are akin to (or identical to) addictions. Ending this affair will be just like ending an addiction and just as hard. I hope that for you it will be a matter of getting rid of the physical addiction (the chemicals in your body) and less about the emotional addiction (the mess and needs in your head).

When you've done that, there is another addiction to address -- your husband's addiction to alcohol. That path is very hard, as I already know that you know. You'll need a clear head to do that.

You are correct that addressing needs in the way that was mentioned above may very well not work. Addicts (including you and your husband in this statement) aren't really all that good at meeting the needs of someone else in a compassionate and grounded way. They also have a very hard time thinking rationally.

That's one of the many reasons why your affair is the first thing that needs to go. You need your own head clear and grounded to start to deal with the issues in your marriage, because your husband's head is not.

Please read this article from the main site. The beginning of it is a rant about the co-dependency movement and how it's messing with healthy marriages. The end addresses marriages that include an alcoholic.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_cod.html

It's important to realize that the standard advice the Harleys give does not apply to addictions. Here's what Dr. Harley says about alcoholism:

" When an alcoholic is married to a loving and caring spouse, the spouse's love and care is sucked in like a black hole. It drains the caring spouse of everything they have, leaving him or her not only exhausted, but also having failed to meet their sick spouse's needs. In these cases, the non-alcoholic spouse must emotionally detach themselves or becomes emotionally destroyed."

and later, "The care and consideration of our spouse does not leave us emotionally disabled -- unless our spouse turns out to be an addict. When it comes to addiction in marriage, my advice is to run for cover! But in marriages that do not suffer from addiction, care and consideration is not the problem, but rather the solution to problems."

To be clear, "Running for cover" is not the same as giving up on the marriage. It IS the same as protecting yourself and your children from the fallout of an alcoholic relationship.

Oh, and this is hard stuff, Ammmm. Don't let the ranting get you down. Folks get triggered sometimes.

Peachy wrote:

"Let's see any OP become the H here and see if this guy wants to bathe kids or diaper babies that ain't his own! How about a little bill paying? how about cutting the grass? How about morning breath day after day...cutting cheese? How's that for fantasy killing...for that is what an affair becomes....REAL LIFE...if allowed to continue.

And sadly...because the basis and foundation for this affair is built upon lies and quicksand....when things do go bad...WHEN THE FANTASY DIES...it dies faster and quicker than you could ever know. "

Morning breath, cutting cheese,....ha ha ha ha ha ha

Man, I need that laugh. Peachy as we say around good ole' Mississippi, "you won't do!"

My ex's husband has done all of those things for the last two years. I kept hoping he'd stop, but nope. He's going strong. These days, I hope he keeps on doing it. My daughter needs a stable life, not more insanity. Another divorce would just create more chaos in her life.

I find that saying how things are -sure- to go one way or the other usually means that they're not always true.

I understand and get that the affair has to end. And yes, it will be more hard emotionally than physically. I don't see him that often. But I can and will do it. Mainly for myself. As far as my marriage and arc^^asking what day to day life is like.........it varies. Some days are fine, others are horrid! I wish I had the energy to explain this marriage and life in length. My H is extremely controlling and I don't think he even realizes it. My IC once was aksing about his outbursts and I said that I really didn't think he could help it. She then asked if he did it at work and when I said no, she said he COULD help it. I do love him but wonder how weak I am for that. How could I possibly allow a person to treat me like that? The name calling and breaking things used to occur a lot more often - whether the kids were around or not. Now that the kids are getting a little older, it doesn't occur as often and he tries to do it more under his breath so they don't hear or see it. The one time I will never forget is when he slapped me while I was holding my oldest, then 1. He has threatened my life and his own and it scares me. I love the quote Just J wrote about becoming emotionally detached and then emotionally destroyed. That is exactly how I feel. I felt for so long that he would apologize and things would be better. And they usually would for a short time. I would then become the wonderful little wife all over again and think that thinkgs would be good and then he would blow up on me again......usually when drinking. It gt to a point where I was afraid to forgive him and allow things to be good because I never knew when he was going to hurt me again. I knew it would happen though so slowly, I stopped forgiving, stopped caring and stopped working at it. To protect myself. My husband left for 2 weeks and stayed with his sister and her fammily. In the end, he got a DUI at 3 in the morning and blamed me. Financially, it has been terrible. We both make okay money but daycare alone is $1200 a month. So now, not only are there the million other problems but let's add financial difficulties to the mix. My reasoning for bringing up the DUI is because since then (about 8 weeks ago), he wasn't drinking - only did twice in small amounts. That changed this weekend and I could see it starting all over again. I will end the affair but I also have to say that I still don't know if this is where I belong. No, I don't want to be a divorced mother of 2, but I don't know that I can survive if I stay in this marriage! It truly sucks the life from me at times! It is exhausting on top of everything else! He can be a wonderful man........the one that everyone else sees. Everything thinks he is so perfect. I tell him he treats me worse then he treats people he doesn't even like.

I think the worst cam ewhen my Grandma passed away in February. That made me do a whole lot of thinking about religion, life, etc. My Grandma was everything to me and always has been! He knew how close we were and what a devastating time it was for me. She and the rest of the family (who I am also VERY close to) live on farms about 5.5 hours from here. The funeral was going to be on a Tuesday. He said he would take Tuesday off so he could go with me. We could leave Monday night and come back Tuesday after the funeral. This floored me! There was no way I was going to go there and back in 4 hours. This was where I needed to be for a little while. Even just a few days. But he refused to use his precious vacation time to be there for me. So I packed up the kdis and the dog and off we went. I have been back twice since (once just last week) and he refuses to go with me. I think it is because he knows he can't drink there.

Instead of starting a self-destructive affair ... what else might you have done to improve your situation?

When you are in a deep hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging!

if you do not know what a "conflict avoider" is ... I suggest you ~google~ that and read up.

The frying pan was hot, and greasy and very unappealing .... so instead of learning how to clean up the frying pan mess ... you jumped into the fire.

Your affair solves NOTHING in your life

Your affair gives you NO TOOLS NO LIFE SKILLS that you can use to better your family/home life

Your affair makes your half of the marriage as ugly as your husband's half

STOP DIGGING

learn how to stop conflict avoiding

read some books

educate yourself

leave your huusband alone for awhile if that helps .... but do not further throw your self-esteem in the ditch by continuing this ugly affair!

[color:"red"] STOP DIGGING THIS HOLE [/color]

Pep

^bump^