I've been mulling this thought over and over in my head for 2 weeks now and I just have to let it out, or I just might go insane!

Tomorrow WH & I have our 1st MC appointment.

WH is doing the fence sitting cake eating, yet has moved back home and things here are slowly looking brighter. My anger right now is that OW has not been told the truth! Who would believe I could get angry about this???? Well, I see it as if she knew he was with me and his family all of the time and not devoting time to her like he was, could this be a form of exposure?

She would get furious in the past if WH had to do something with the kids.... he told me that. She wants his undivided attention & $.

I guess you could say that my deepest fantasy would be for her to hear that he is lying to her and spending time with US, and that she'd be so pissed she drop him in a hearbeat.

Too much to hope for I'm sure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

First, don't go into MC expecting to see sincere participation from your H.

If you hadn't already set it up, I'd recommend you not go at all until the fence sitter falls on your side.

The best way for OW to hear the "truth" is via a NC letter. Absent that, let her worry - unless she's married. In that case consider telling her H what's going on - assuming you've already exposed to him.

And you believed him? Don't believe anything he has said about her without additional corroboration.

This could happen - but the news can't come from you because you're the witch. Further, it might not happen this way because what your H told you about her is a lie.

Go to the MC expecting nothing. Hope for the best. Listen. Do not argue. Report back here what happens.

Thanks WAT, you are one of the elders I look up to on these forums! Over the phone, the MC did tell me that the 1st goal is to end the A, so I am currious to see how he brings this up tomorrow.

OW is single so no spouse to disclose to. Estranged from some family members, close to others. The estranged ones have tried to help me in my battle to no avail. Her close family doesn't see anything wrong with what she is doing. :-( (I was thinking more along the lines of a 3rd party letter delivered via an annonymous source so she would have no idea who this info was coming from.)

Those comments from WH about her have been verified via other sources so I do believe them. I've gotten very good a verifying info and spying these past few months!

My biggest fear is that I'll break down into tears at MC and I don't want to do that. I've shed so many I could create my own reservoir! I've been able to be strong with WH and I know that if I were to cry at the session, it may be bad for him to open up.

Outstanding!!

Allow this fact to bolster your confidence going in.

Tears are OK - this is your marriage being threatened afterall. Just no begging and pleading.

WAT

I agree with Worthatry. One thing you can do in additon, though, is to keep any emails your H writes to you regarding reconciliation and any negative comments about the OW, and also secretly record any conversations in which he is saying nasty stuff about the OW or talking of remourse and reconcilitaion with you. Then hold on to these. If the going gets rough over whether he will end the affair, then send copies of the recordings and emails to the OW. I had to do this, and boy did it work wonders. The OW can rationalize trusting the WH when he is cheating on his W but it is another story when the OW is the one being betrayed. She will take offense - and direct it at him. If you do this, expect your WH to be very, very mad at you - you will esentially be ending his affair for him. Ready or not.

I may be going to MC alone today. WH came home last night and had been drinking. He went on and on and on about all that he has been unhappy about for the past 8 years, why it's MY fault he had his A (HA like I'll ever believe that!) He made several demands of me that I need to do in order for him to end his affair and make this marriage work. He's dwelling on past issues, some of which are real and some are made up in his mind!!! UNREAL! Alien speak doesn't even begin to explain last night!

He hates his family and wants me to end all ties with them and MY family too! Says he'll file for divorce and use our kids to get what he wants. ...jaw dropped here... I know that his family is on my side here! I'm so flustered and shaken this am and I'm scared about councelling now. If he even goes, I'm worried that he will purposely sabotage the appointment.

I'll update later.....

Good!

Can you say "blame shifting"?

The crazier it gets, the more desperate he is to avoid looking at himself. It has to get desperate before it can get better.

Go to the MC by yourself, if necessary. Explain all to the MC. But first ask your H if he's going and if he declines consider replying, "OK, I'll go alone to tackle MY problems. Don't you want to help since you can make sure I have them all identified?" Deliver that sincerely, not sarcastically.

JMHO

WAT

Thanks WAT! I was already planning on going alone if he bails on me. He is most definitely blame shifting! Nothing is his fault at all. It's me, his family, my family, his friends, everyone but himself. And he's getting evil. It was so hard to stay composed last night, but I did it and am very proud of myself. No yelling back, no tears, no arguing. I think this set him off even more! He was picking a fight big-time and I didn't play into it.

Right now he said, I'll see later how I feel about going and I'll let you know. I think he will go but this is just another way of him trying to get me to beg or plead for him to go, and I'm NOT doing it!

He said he doesn't care about anything anymore. He'll let the house fall under forclosure, utilities shut off, cars repo'd. This scares me! He had crap for credit for years and it took him a very long time to clean it up and now he's letting it slide again!

The deed to this house is in both our names but the mortgage is in his name alone. All bills except for cable and cell are also in his name and we have only 1 join CC that I make reqular payments on. I'm not letting him suck me down into financial ruin with him!

I just opened up a savings account in my own name and changed my direct deposit to stash away some $ there just in case.

I'm very, VERY scared right now, but I certainly have a much better perspective on how to handle and take care of myself thanks to everyone here!

Because he's scared and feels like his world is slipping away, perhaps.

Continue to see thru his behavior. You have a better idea of what's going on in his head than he does right now.

Do you have an attorney? Assuming he's gonna get worse before he gets better, consulting with an attorney to see what your financial/legal vulnerabilities are would be smart. If, for example, the mortgage is foreclosed, he gets his credit knocked. You, being on the deed, may be spared credit worries, but perhaps lose your portion of the equity in the home to the mortgage company. But I might be wrong about this. Best to know for sure.

WAT

Scampi -
I wanted to let you know that you are NOT alone in the blame-shifting c#ap - My H does the exact same thing - he says I am responsible for 80% of the problems in our relationship/marriage...what a joke. He also does the exact same thing re: making demands/listing the changes I should make...you see how this becomes a script for WS.

What helps me is knowing why H is saying these things...
GUILT GUILT GUILT...WS know dam@ well that what they are doing is wrong; they just don't want to admit it. To justify the cake eating and continued A they will stop at nothing to avoid any blame of themselves and instead heap it all on us BS...they will not look at themselves b/c then they have to stare into the eye of the nightmare THEY have created.
I try (yes i know its easier said than done) to not take it personally - i know i am not 80% responsible and i know i have made many positive changes...so whatever BS is spewing from BS - lol - is not my concern...so smile, nod, say something like 'you are entitled to your opinion, as am i' and leave it at that. DO not engage them in arguing this madness, it will get you no where. PLEASE go to MC - alone if you have to - it will help you so much wit this, believe me!! if H isnt going to go, fine - that is his problem, not yours.

Take care
MPELE

I agree with worth. While your husband is out of control you need to preserve your financial base, and that includes keeping a roof over your head, the bills paid and food on the table.
Is the mortgage, etc currently unpaid? If that is happening, you may need to step in and seeing an attorney will help you decide your options.

As for the OW, yes, any documentation that you can gather where he is going off on her could be excellent ammunition later.

And of course this is not your fault. His demands of you are selfish and manipulative. He is obviously feeling some desperation and lack of control.

I guess if you want to be nice, you can reassure him that all of his concerns are taken seriously and you will see that together you address them, however, it was HIS choice to cheat and you in no way are responsible for his actions.

He MAY (maybe) looking for some direction here. If he doesn't calm down when you have stated your intention (giveit a few days to sink in) then I would play hard ball with him. Get an attorney, get your finances covered and take him back only on term that IF he wants to stay he needs to make his choice to stay, cut off all contact with OW and work on the marriage.

I think you are on the right track.

Thanks for the advice WAT. No, I don't have an atty. We just bought this house last October and with the recent market being stagnant we have no equity built up. If it were to be forclosed I would only lose my deposit $. Unfortunately that would be helpful to me in getting a new place but that's water under the bridge now. I do have family that I can move in with temporarily so I'm not worried about being homeless if, heaven forbid, it ever comes to that! And I could probably get something semi-decent myself since I might qualify as a 1st time home buyer.

My work has legal advice as one of the benefits. I think I may call them as soon as WH goes to work. In Massachusetts, there is no legal separation. I wish there were! My brother recently D using a mediator and it went very well for them.

I'm still fuming inside over his comment last night that he'll agree to end the A if I agree to his demands! HA! No way hon! You violate this marriage and YOU need to agree to MY demands! Not that I have given him any other than NC. That has been my only demand - NC.

Thanks for keeping my spirits up today! I had to take an extra anxiety pill this morning. I felt like my insides were going to rattle right out from under my skin!

Does he do this often?

Does he use alcohol to self medicate?

Do you think he has a problem with alcohol?

Do YOU have a problem with his alcohol consumption?

I ask you these questions because your answers are VERY important. If your H does in fact have a problem with alcohol or other substances that needs to be addressed FIRST. MB does not work with active substance abusers.

My H was a drug abuser too, A`s along with substance abuse problems go hand in hand, it`s quite common. There is hope, you can recover your M but first you need to identify the mitigating factors so you can attack them in the right order.

If you think your H may have a problem with alcohol (using to self medicate) then I can direct you to the right section of this site to get you started. There also many members here who have experience with substance abuse so you will find people here to discuss this issue with.

Yes, WH had a previous issue with alcohol and stopped cold turkey 9 years ago. OW loves her wine and she got him drinking again. I hear the babble.... I've got it under control now, I was a kid then and it was just beer that I couldn't handle, a few drinks after work or with dinner aren't going to hurt. And up until last night, those statements were true.

Now that he's starting to feel guilt or remorse or not knowing what to do, I think he self medicated last night - probably over the anxiety of the MC session today! I've heard that he and the OW had a few blowups when he had too much to drink. He knows how I feel about it.... plain & simple. He's an alcoholic that has fallen off the wagon!

I have to say that a friend gave me a good boost today. She called to say that she heard the OW isn't enjoying my WH as much as before since it's no longer a secret! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Okay.

Take a look at this.

<a href="ttp://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5048a_qa.html" target="_blank">ttp://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5048a_qa.html</a>

You can still recover your M but you need to shift your focus for the time being. You must tell the MC about this issue right up front. Did your H go through a substance abuse recovery program? Did you join al-anon or another substance abuse support group? How do your extended family members feel about your H`s drinking? Do you have allies that you can call on?

MC update. WH & I went together. It was cold to start, and his body language showed that he didn't want to be there. MC started by talking to me then focused most of his attention on WH. Asked him about OW, what was the attraction, why is he still seeing her, is he happy with her, more then he is with me, is he planning on ending it, when....etc....

I was shocked! WH was so open about OW and told MC that he was not happy with her and DID want to end it but didn't know how to get out of the mess he is in. He's afraid of trusting me again due to the pain & distance of the last 8 yrs of our marriage and the pain he has caused me with this A. He's afraid too much damage has been done on both sides and that we can't overcome it.

MC told both of us that he has seen couples that are in far worse shape than we are and they are happy now.

MC asked me if I want the M back and I said no. WH turned his head to look at me so fast I thought it was gonna fall off! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I then said that our M was 'damaged goods' and I didn't want THAT M back. I wanted my M to be a new one, a better one but I DID want to stay with my WH in this M.

I go see MC alone next Monday and WH sees him alone next Tues, then we go back to seeing him as a couple again.

When we left, WH said, 'I like this guy. He certainly doesn't beat around the bush - he get's right to the point!' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I agreed.

Dinner was quiet, we watched the Red Sox game together and fell asleep snuggling.

Small baby steps...

OH.... I almost forgot that the MC warned my WH that when he does the NC, it will be very hard. He will go through withdrawals like a drug addict and he should talk to me or call the MC on the phone to talk about his feelings right away. Don't keep them inside and DO NOT call or text her!

A+ girl!!


Predictable - but better than many. Afraid of hard work.

Keep up the good work and try rooting for a National League team. You've both seen enough of "designated hitters" recently.

WAT

Thanks WAT! You've really been a great support to me through this!

LOL @ NL Team! I'm not a BB fan at all and WH doesn't really like the Sox, but OD15 does so I was there solely for the 'family closeness time.' I don't even know who won the game! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You're welcome.

And I double ditto what Daisy has said about the alcohol abuse.

This is a wild card that can overwhelm any MB accomplishments.

What are your plans for this?

WAT

I've let WH husband know my disappointment about his drinking again, and all of his friends and family have said the same. It was briefly discussed in MC yesterday and MC said we will address that. He also told my WH that he needs to talk about his drinking w/his IC. He goes today to see his IC.

My IC thinks that when NC and withdrawal are over he will go back to not drinking again. He thinks it is a symptom of the current state of his mind/life/events. Escaping his anger, worry, fears, faults, shame, etc...