Well I was on here last year and I am back. Last fall my wife was away on business and called me to tell me she had had enough of feeling how she did (news to me at the time) She was unhappy and was not "In Love" with me anymore, all the typical stuff, she needed space, she wanted to be independant and felt like she want meant to be married and that we were not meant to be. We have been together for 10 years, we dated for a few years were engaged for two and married for six. We have no kids.

Her job has caused her to be away alot the last few years and of course that has strained our relationship some, and she is very ambitious and runs various clubs and several websites. Basically she doesnt have alot of time for marriage, and loves what she does. She left in October and stayed with some newly aquired friends, they are a couple older than us, could almost be our parents. It was a good thing for her, it helped her get grounded, she actually satrted treating them like her mom and dad which was a little wierd. They encouraged her and helped her see that she should really try to get back together and make it work. One other thing that I didnt realize immediately was that while she was away she was having feelings and an EA with a guy that was also married, and actually stayed in the same house for a few days. All of them know each other and share a common interest. This guy was 15 years her senior and also married. While we were separated she told me he had feelings for her but that she wasnt persuing anything and that nothing had happened. During this time I did some snooping and found he had sent nude pics of himself to her and she had sent provacative ones to him. Doesnt seem to innocent. I confronted her and she said thats all they were, and they kissed and nothing went further. This all happened midway though the separation. Her "dad" that she was staying with also told her to not persue this and that it would be the wrong thing to do, so between that and the fact that the guy was begging her to start a relationship and leave his family she didnt take it further. She had stopped talking to him and in Jan she moved back home. I beleive her that everything was over w/ them. I actually bacame comfortable w/ the couple she stayed w/. and was thankful she had a good influence around her that guided her back to me.

For the first month that she was back everything was great she actually ssemed happy to be home, she was cooking and spending time w me which she doesnt nrmally have the time or desire to do, and I was trying to do more things that she had asked of me. We were having sex which was also an issue for us. I always thought she didnt want it, never seemed into it, but found that was not the case. Apparently she wanted it as much as I did but neither of us communicated what we wanted or needed. Things were going smooth. Then she seemed to pull away a bit and one day I decided to snoop again, and checked her email, and lo and behold there were all these emails from her "dad" ( the couple she stayed with) saying how he was in love with her and wanted to have her and sleep w her. I just freaked out!! I was lead to believe that this was a totally innocent relationship and I know it was for a while, but how could this person that was giving her all this guidance to work things out w me and stay married dont cheat be the one now tearing my marriage apart. Plus he is 20 years her senior! I confronted her and she said that she told him no and that obviously nothing would ever happen since he is in another state, she didnt start this and she didnt have those feelings for him, and that she told him said things were good w me so stop it. I was beside myself.

Meanwhile she was snooping on me. While we were separated I joined a Church Divorce/separation group for support. There I met alot of new friends male and female. I kept in touch with them and they supported me greatly, most of them were getting divorced and were so happy my wife came back. One woman and I became good friends and talked frequently about her situation mostly but also mine, and it was completely platonic. Both of us just went through separation and having been cheated on and both are christians and dont want to divorce, the last thing we would do is hook up! Anyway, I mentioned her in passing to my wife, but she didnt know how often we talked. I wasnt trying to hide it, i called her on my cell and my wife can openly see that. Anyway, she saw the #'s and said that I was having an affair w her et c etc , so Now im the bad guy even though we have never spoken a romantic word to eachother in our lives. We started working through that i talked to her "dad" and he aplooggized etc. I have been going to counseling since she first left, and she refuses to go or read any books or anything.

Anyway, last week we had a huge blow up, I feel her drifting away, and I find it ihard to trust her, when somethign happens I relate to what happened before and assume she must be up to something again. She seemed unintersted in me and marriage again, not affectionate etc, I had also uncovered that she had gone and orded things fromn adult sites during the time she washaving the talks w/ "dad". I confronted her and she said she ordered books so we would have a better sex life. I had mentioned this numerous times, so why wouldnt she tell me if it was to help us, instaedd of hiding the purchase and the books? So she admitted that, but there was another charge, and she wouldnt own up to that, she said no i just ordered books. I found what it was she had ordered sex toys. I have no problems w books or toys, but why keep them a secret if they are for us to use. She said that she wanted to try them out first, and then talk to me about them , but how many months does that take, i just dont know it just doesnt builkd trust. I know I did things that make her question my trust but I know I did nothing, and I know she has done some things, maybe just not all of them. I want to work it out and put the past behind. But she seems unwilling to do any real work. Anyway I let all my bottled up anger out and hurt her greatly, she said some very hurtful things to me too. Now she says she can see what i feel and what i think of her and cant get past it, its over and there is no sense trying. She moved into the other bedroom and said its over but wont leave cause its her house too. She wants to be friends and nothing more but doesnt want to lsoe me as a friend. Anwyay, I cant stand this I dread coming home from work, and its incredibly awkward, I have a really bad attitude towrds her now and I cant shake it and that makes things worse. I feel like we are at teh end of our rope to. Sometimes I feel like she is just trying to make me miserable so I wont want to try anymore. How do we somehow get back to normal conversation let alone friendship and maybe a marriage if that is even possible.

Can you cut this up into paragraphs so we can read it? Thanks!

Welcome to marriagebuilders.

It sounds like your wife is looking for a father figure. How was her relationship with her dad?

I would continue counseling, and encourage her to do it too. If she refuses, there is nothing you can do to make her. But it sounds like she has issues.

Also I don't buy the whole "try out the sex things" explanation. Sounds foggy to me.

I really think she has had 2 physical affairs, not EA's.

That's crap about the books, toys, etc. My STBXW had bought some lingerie, hidden it and then my daughter and I found it while looking for a pair of jeans she said that she thought it might help our sex life. What she meant to say is that I am trying to impress other man just like I did you when we met and have bought some new things to wear with HIM, not YOU. Lie, Lie, Lie.. that's what Waywards do.

Don't believe it for a minute. She has plans for the books, toys, etc and they don't include you

She says she the books were dumb and thats why she didnt share, she wanted to look through them and find good ones, and the toys she bought to use herself and hopefully w us but felt awkward. But i ruined the surprises. Kep in mind that both ea people are severla states away and dont visit. I want to believer her, I look at the things i did like my talking to the girl from my divorce group, and i really did nothing wrong but my actions looked that way, so why cant she have done the same, then I think why hide it if she was so hurt by me hiding, I could go round and round for hours w that

Is there any possibility that the couple she lived with are swingers? Her newfound fascination with the books and toys could be because she is involved with some people who are into out-there sexual practices.

Your WW seems very detached, and I agree that she probably had two SAs and not two PAs.

Bottom line - either she will go to counseling and try to resolve these problems or she doesn't want to resove these problems. If she doesn't want to resolve them, then this hurts - but so does having these things happen over and over again in the future, after you have invested even more into the relationship.

Have you exposed to both of the OMs wives? Have you put a keylogger on your home computer? (You will have to set your virus program settings to ignore the program) Become a spy right now and hold your sources close to your chest. I get the feeling there is more to this than you know.

opps.. two PAs and not two EAs.

No I havent exposed to the other's wives, the one i dont know enought o get in contact with but the other, the couple she stayed with I do and could tell her, I dont want to have to do that, but will if need me. I mentioned that once to my wife and she said fine do it if you want to ruin their marriage too, lol Typical huh! Like I am the one that ruined it!

there is no way to put a keylogger onher computer, she in online 24/7 due to her job and also her hobby/job which is making websites
She would know I did it for one, and for two there is no way to get access long enough to do it.
So that unfortunately is not an option.

You are not ruining their marriage - the OMs wife has a right to know and can help keep an eye on the two. you can try http://zabasearch.com/ to find out more about the OM and possibly his phone number and his W's name.

Do not count out the keylogger. If she is out of the house for the day and OMG "the electricity goes out" then she will never know, unless she uses her computer for a server. There is always the option of taking her out for the day and having a trusted techie friend involved who comes by when you aren't home to set it up (but he has to tell her virus program to ignore the keylogger).

Maybe someone will pipe in with the name of a remote access program so that you can check what she does without having to use her computer to do it. (you still have to install the program on her computer first, I'm sure) I used a normal keylogger (original programs' online recorder) to bust my H, and actually kicked myself for having not trusted him enough to install it - but boy, what I found was....bad.

And you know what my H had the nerve to say to me when he was busted(fog speak)? "You are so parinoid to put that on the computer!" Well, I wasn't parinoid. My suspicions were true.

you cannot face and deal with the problems until you know for sure what the problems are. expect her to get pissed at you for snooping, but she is your W and you have a right to know what she is up to.

I hear ya, At this point what I know is enough for me, she just said she doesnt want to be w me if I cant trust her, and she has issues trusting me so there we are. BTW her comp is a laptop adn she always has it w her due to work, she works from home and takes it everywhere practically, she really never leaves the house anyway, and if she did its password protected, so I dont think any spyware is even an option. I misstated that she had two EA's earlier the first was an EA that started being physical although she sayd kissing was as far as it got, I dont knwo why she wounldnt admit more cause she wants out anyway, and that would make me want out too so I would think she would tell me at this pt just to get me to leave lol. As far as the "dad" guy, I do not beleive anything physically happened there, when she stayed there it was when the other EA/PA happened and he was the one counseling her from a christian perspective that God doesnt want divorce and that her relationship was wrong and not to go down that path and to come homw. It was only after she came back that it somehow changed. As far as telling his wife "mom" She and her family had issues w her staying there at times thinking it wasnt appropriate, so I dont think it would come as a complete shock to her. Their marriage has issues that I now see after knowing them both, I am not opposed to exposing it but not sure of the right time, once i do I know my marriage will be done for sure.

If her computer is a desktop (not a laptop), then figure out which circuit in the house it's on...and plug in something to blow the ciruit (without electrocuting yourself, please).

When you start "troubleshooting", find a reason to unplug her computer, monitor, whatever. Make it look like her computer is dead. If she starts raising heck about not having access, suggest she go to the library or work or something...and there ya go, access to her computer.

Alternately, is she a heavy sleeper? Do something that you know gives her a rip-roaring headache (if she's allergic to cats, keep the kitty right in her face) about an hour or two before you go to bed. Then be a 'sweetie' and get her some nite-time headache medicine. Let her crash out to get the headache, and BINGO.

I had similar issues when my wife was involved in her online affair. She was literally on the computer from the moment she got up to the moment she went to bed...which was well after I could manage since I worked.

In my case, the kitty trick worked nicely. To this day she doesn't exactly know when I enabled logging on her computer...LOL!

It took a couple of days before I was able to implement this...and then it was another 5 or 6 days before I was able to get up EARLY and access the files...D-day morning as it turned out.

If you use a keylogger and she's computer saavy, make sure you run whatever anti-spyware she uses after you've installed it, and placed that keylogger on the "ignore" list so that she doesnt spot it when she runs her protection software.

You can do it...you just gotta be smarter than your average alien!

Sorry....crossed posts with you.

Does she use a docking station at home with her laptop? There are hardware keyloggers that you could install on the keyboard port that she likely wouldn't notice if you did it right.

Is it a company owned laptop? If it is, then you've got a risk of legal issues if you do any of this.

If it is company owned, I'd suggest you contact her boss and tell him/her what's going on...and explain that the laptop is being used for personal use that is likely in direct violation of his company policy. Ask him to have his IT organization investigate it, and if it turns out that she is exchanging explicit emails/etc... with that laptop that you'd like to know so that you can save your marriage.

He might not agree to tell you...but if she is using it for that, he'll stop it.

I appreciate the hints, but due to the fact that comp is always w her and she is always home its really hard. Plus she has a password on it as it is a laptop. The computer use is not abnormal for her, she always spends lots of time online always has always will, her job and hobbies revolve around that. honestly at this point I dont think her relationship w him is what he was starting it to be. There are other issues that i cant even get into wout writing a book explaining how intertwined he is in her/my life that not communicating w him is not an option. Anyway, I spoke to him face to face and he apologized and explained he would keep a distance emotionally and he knows that where he let things go in his mind was wrong. Anyway, my issue is trust after both of these incidents and also the fact that I cant seem to be able to do it, and when I went on the rampage I did last week in our fight I said some really hurtful thigs, although the concepts were true I exaggerated them and used the most horrible words. That is what sparked our recent issues, and the fact that she cant beleiev I would want to be with her or work things out. That is what started her sleeping in the other bedroom etc. The way we talked to eachother in those fights did not show an ounce of love or compassion from either side. She is very independent and just thinks she shoudnt be married at all, she has so many things in life she wants to do and cant do them w someone else relying on her or in her life. thats one issue the other is our communication/trust issues, which stem from normal stuff and also go into our sexual relationship. She thinks its impossible to turn back the clock, too much negative history and we can never have a normal relationship or sex life, and I honestly agree at times when I feel like I do now, anyway, any more thoughts...anyone?

Read the Harley's information on Plan A, B, and ESPECIALLY the NC (no contact).

Recovery is NOT possible while OM is still in the picture. While contact continues in ANY fashion with the WS.

You need to prioritize here...what's more important in your life...those 'other reasons'? Or your marriage?

lol @ kitty trick! The Owl is wise.

I hear ya loud and clear, I know the choice, and its either allow them to have a father dauhgter realtionship or not, and the second means we are through I am pretty sure.

bump....
We are living in seperate bedrooms now for 2 weeks, and she wants to be friends...she doesnt see us working out but wants to be friends...I want to be friends to try to salvage the relationship, but we are at opposite ends of the spectrum. She says she wants to be friends thats it no relationship talk etc, not that she couldnt fall in love again, she doesnt want to, doesnt want to be married etc, thinks we could be great friends though. Anyway, we keep arguing, i just cant seem to stop bringing up relationship issues which I know forces her further away, but I cant stand being friends just to suit her needs only. I feel like she wants to be friends so the break up goes her way, I dont know, I know I need to stop arguing but its so easy to get into one, and If we dont communicate it makes it hard for me to think that anything good can happen. Then again when we do we argue so its a vicious cycle. Argggh.
I just dont get waking up one day and all the sudden you just want to be friends when you came back to a marriage to work on things anyway...rant over...any help anyone???