StartinOver & KiwiJ ... thanks for the input, this is an area of interest to me as well ...

When did you "know" it was time to stop being a WW ? Was it a specific need that wasn't being met ? Did something tip the scales to make you go back home ?

LH,

I am not convinced that a Plan B letter is all that necessary. I am convinced that ANY Plan B letter over 4 sentences long just exudes weakness and a waiting in the wings attitude.

Plan B for me(among a plethora of other minor things) has two major points. 1 Self respect 2 Acceptance that I am personally responsible for 100% of my life.

Oh.....LOL, sorry to confuse you. Im a BH, and my EX WWs fog lifted about 2 yrs into my second marriage. She broke down in her driveway when I dropped off my kids one afternoon and she said that she screwed up the family and she wishes she had us all back together. Well, I was remarried to a wonderful woman (still am) and I love her to death. My EXs fog lifted a lil too late. I would not have wanted my old marriage back anyhow. But, thats another topic. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My EX basically left me for someone who was married, and I guess he was going to divorce to be with her.....well, he stayed married. My EX has been waiting, struggling to get him to divorce, you name it, ever since our divorce. Her harlequin romance fizzled out, but she is still hanging on to the OM.

LH,

I sent my PBL 7 months after he had moved in with OW. Everyone on the board had to kick me to do it.

Sending the PBL created an enormous sense of liberation for ME. It helped me resist whatever impulse I had to communicate in Plan B. I couldn't add anything to the love I had expressed in it -- in fact, I expressed more love than I had actually felt at that point.

It outlined the terms I would need met to renew contact -- NOT to renew the marriage.

I wasn't writing to the WH -- I was writing to the man who was my H. If he never wakes up or "gets it" -- fine by me.

It was longer than Cymanca recommends -- while I agree with C's point, I was dealing with a man who would read a short, curt letter as anger, and dismiss it for that reason. He is used to hearing nothing but praise.

I highly recommend the process -- even if your WH says it is "over." Talk to the guy you married. Think of it being the last honorable, loving gesture. Think of it going into your "Collected Letters."

I don't regret showing a last gesture of love to one who was showing no love for me. I don't think any of us do.

I've had a realization while reading these posts and the the AMENDS thread of Believer's.

I think that Pep is onto something here:



My H has shared that a real dealbreaker with the OW during PLAN B was her refusal to consider what they were doing as being "WRONG". He was unable to sleep or to function well because of his "GUILT" which he tried to talk to her about. So when he decided to try to come back it was because of this moreso than his FEELINGS. He wanted to be a GOOD GUY again.

During PLAN B, he was robbed of the opportunity to check on me and to "PLAY" the hubby role. That's why I warn folks about allowing the WS to come into the house during PLAN B.

Patience, most people on here know my story. I never "left" my marriage physically. The OM ended the A, my H found out about it 6 months later. I always "knew" I didn't want to be a WW, the guilt was horrible but, as is often said here, in the frame of my mind I was in I was totally addicted and obsessed with the OM. After the A ended I desperately wanted to repair my marriage and totally reconnect with my H but I didn't know how until I found MB.

As to a specific need not being met? The fault was all mine. Immaturity (even though I'm 52 and was 48 at the time of the A) and the inability to deal with a very stressful time in our marriage (3 parents dying in one year). We should have had grief counselling.

that's so true Mimi

decent folks are torn up by their own infidelity

I appreciate that show of character/conscience some WS have .... it's the "clay" that can be worked with

because they recognize on some level that they are taking a very wrong turn and are lost to themselves and who they want to be

good insight Mimi


Pep

I have often wondered if my WH does feel that what he is
doing is wrong, or if he's so full of "entitlement" that
whatever makes him feel good is "okay" in his thinking.

Very hard to know, with all the fog around, but when it
cleared for a brief time during our false recovery back
at the beginning of the year, he did apologize for hurting
me, express remorse, and express total confusion on how/
why he had gotten himself into such a situation. So, to
me, there was still at least a tiny flicker of conscience
in there, telling him what he was doing was wrong.

Obviously, the conscience couldn't override the "addiction"
since he went back with OW and continues to be involved w/
her, but I'd guess the battle between what they know is the
right thing and what they actually are doing is part of what
makes them stay miserable every day of the A.

Slammed

before my H left (while he was trying to decideif he should throw his whole life away to leave and be with his.....well you know the word)and many, many times after he left, my H talked about the guilt and shame that he felt because of what he was doing.

he wasn't sleeping or eating right because he said he couldn't live with the feelings

even in April when he was contacting me about taxes, he said "i know that i ruined our marraige and i'm sorry"

i think that he believes that by never seeing me again....and trying to forget me and our marraige...by starting an entirely new life with someone who is just like him....who has done exactly the same things to her H.....he doesn't have to feel the guilt and shame

In Plan A, my WH had guilt and shame written all over his forehead before he moved out. The guilt and shame were definitely lessened when he moved out because I wasn't a constant reminder to him about the sin he was committing. I was fearful of Plan B because I didn't want him to forget me and our M. For my WH, it was definitely easier to sever the ties with me completely to eliminate the wife component. OW makes him feel good about the sin so he isn't phased by the absence of me. At least not yet...

I don't understand why WH is flying into the D so quickly. He didn't even give our M a second thought. I am praying that the reality of the D will trigger some remorse. The fog is too dense. WH can't see a thing.

readytowait

i read Private Lies by Pittman and many of the things he says about a romantic affiar really hits home for me...maybe it describes your situation also:

he said that in a romantic affair:

-suddenly the WS, who was once as deeply in love with the BS as he is now with the OW, declares the BS no longer exsists. the BS is deserted and almost erased.

-most of the time the WS files for divorce and romantic affairs lead inexorbly, almost hypnotically, toward divorce without regard for consequences and in a powerful hurry

-romantics enter the divorce ina romantic haze- nothing matters except the romance. The marriage to the BS and perhaps even the children, no longer exsist (the OW left her 4 children to be with my H)

-the BS may try to counter this sudden determination to end a life together but all of thier pleading, anger and threats are simply unpleasant racket. the WS may even suddenly move out to a secret place. (my H did this)

-if the divorce can be slowed down, reality may catch up with the fantasy (THIS is what i'm hoping for)

-Nothing the betrayed spouse can do will affect the romance, but the romance is time limited, and will most likely fall apart.

-While waiting for the romance to end don't try to out-romance a romantic, don't bother to try to arouse jealousy, don't try to get your partners attention, increase their guilt, or threaten some kind of unpleasantness....just express your point of view and then go off and do whatever holds you together during this unpleasantness.

I think Plan B is where the true power is. I say think because I have not been capable of accomplishing Plan B. But let's not forget Plan A is also a good thing. IMO the WS rewrites marital history to rationalize the A. In reality there were problems in the M. Plan A gives the BS the opportunity to erase some of that. As the WS emerges from the fog, they are not seeing the old BS if a good Plan A has been done.

That's my WH! His change of feelings happened so quickly and he did erase me from his mind. I think Plan B was a relief for him because he no longer had to exert any energy in communicating with me. He could concentrate on OW fully.

This describes my WH again. It is a "powerful hurry" with complete disregard to our M. WH is only concerned about this romance. Sadly, I don't exist and I'm just getting in the way of his happiness.

WH wanted to keep his place "secret" but our MC suggested that WH let me see his apartment because I was worried about him. I was very determined to change his mind but WH's ears weren't working.

This is what I am praying for too. In our state, it takes 6 months to finalize D. I need time on my side.

Reality will have to rear it's head sooner or later. I am hoping it is sooner. It's like the honeymoon stage of every relationship. It's just so romantic early on. I would love to revisit that phase of our R.

This sounds like Plan B. He knows my POV but his hearing is gone. He only hears alien voices.

The book is so on-point with my WH. The romantic As are the toughies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />