Hi HL,

I'm happy for you that you are going to MC and also to IC. I've found that for me they were real growth experiences and I learnt a lot.



As I understand it, you're saying that the real problem is that she doesn't respect your boundaries?

You've also noticed that this is true even if she has exactly the same boundary for herself, let alone if she doesn't have that particular issue?

In the past, what have you done to enforce your boundary? You do understand, that it is YOUR responsibility to name and enforce your boundaries, not hers. Enforcing your boundaries will mean that you don't gather resentment, which can only be a good thing for your M.

This might be an important area to work on with your IC, if you get the chance. Its very difficult to change ingrained patterns of behaviour, although it sounds like you have made a lot of progress on this already, on you own. I'm impressed by that. It takes a lot of patience and time to really change, and the support of someone who is a professional will be really useful.
Good luck! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Exactly. As a matter of fact sometimes I think if I state a boundry she disrespects it just to show me who is in control.


Dead on again. Those are the most frustrating. Then in most cases what she will do is not appologize for crossing the boundry she will appologize for enforcing the boundry before. LOL. Then if I cross that boundry because evidently it wasn't a boundry she enforces it again then might appologize for thinking it wouldn't bother her. In otherwords take ownership of your actions after there is nothing you can do. On the night I flirted she finally appologized for not respecting my boundries. Then the next time she did it she actually walked over casually and said to me "don't get all mad and ruin the night it is not like I am going to sleep with the guy."


I have tried everything and what I concluded was when I try to enforce them. IE Don't ever do that to me again or I won't even speak to her the next day. Or I don't agree to let her do something etc. I am the bad guy. She then gets mad at me. Her boundry is that I should basically never get mad at her or she gets upset. She enforces that boundry by no SF.

I told her that is how I feel. She said well I don't like to have SF when we are fighting or upset with each other. I said let me get this straight I cross your boundry no SF because we are upset with each other. You cross my boundry no SF because we are upset with each other. She said yes.


I completely understand this. What I did is detached and now if she crosses my boundries it doesn't bother me as much. In return it also means I can't give as much. She doesn't like the me not giving as much.

One of my FWW's biggest complaints is I expect her to be perfect. I keep saying no everyone makes mistakes, every one slips up. All I really expect is when you do to take ownership and not always turn it around on me. What seems to happen is that when she crosses a boundry she won't take ownership so I have less tolerance for her mistakes and slips.

Thank you for your help

Thank you HL, I needed to hear that, I enjoyed hearing the few things you mentioned about her.

All to often to me I read not a hardness, perhaps firmness...not sure if I'm explaining it right and it's reallt nice to read a softer side of you...I can see the great part of you with other things but I don't see that with your wife...

I see a great guy who I would love to have share in the domontic aspect...who's great with not only his kids but other kids as well...a person who can think on his feet and goes after what he wants...but sometimes I wonder how open-minded you are...

Of course, like I said I could just be reading your posts wrong and let me know if I am...I would certainly not like to have that miscommuncation between us...I value you so much...for reasons I'm sure I've listed...

LOL Would you like to hear them again? LOL A little stroking of the ego...LOL...

Could be that detachment thing come to think about it! LOL

Rin,

I am very analytical when it comes to situation and maybe that gets me into some problems.

I do believe in brownie points and making it up to someone when you have done them wrong.

I am not a hard guy to please.

What I really feel right now is that my FWW's attitude is that because I can do it I should. It is almost like everything I can do is a responsibility. I believe yes some of the things a person does are their responsibilities. But when one spouse has more responsibilities then the other it doesn't seem to be a 50/50 responsibility.

Then her sense of resentment toward me when she asks me to take on more responsibilities makes me feel unappreciated for the heap I already have to fulfill.

I am a human being with a breaking point. I try to remain calm and even and centered. But sometimes when you have had a bad day at work come home and the kids are fighting and the FWW is gone. It throws me off center. I need some time to collect myself.

I am actually having an internal struggle because I need to be honest with myself.

I now am no longer capable of doing all of these things by myself. I do need to recharge. I NEED HELP!!!!

This is in no ways a bash on the FWW.

Last night she went to her meeting after our Soccer meeting. I called Baseball coach to discuss baseball. All the sudden all ****** breaks lose between the boys. They were hitting each other and just went crazy. I didn't handle it well because OS hit YS. OS starts talking about how YS hit him earlier. I wasn't there I only wanted to deal with what just happened. FWW jumps in and tells me OS is right I just don't see it. No OS was wrong at this time that is all I can deal with. There is absolutely no hitting in my home.

So it finally calms down. We watch big brother together. FWW says she is getting in the shower. Meanwhile she tells the kids brush your teeth. The always fool around. So now I am left trying to get them to brush teeth. Finally get that done. She gets out of shower and OS calls me in and asks for water. She says I will get it but doesn't get up because she is watching a show. I get up because he is thirsty. She says I told you I would get it. Now it is time to put them to sleep. She is gone drying her hair. I tuck em in and turn out the light. She then goes in to say good night and sing them a song.

Now I know why I stay up so late. I need some time to unwind.

But because I can do that without freaking out I do it. LOL.

I went in and told the boys I was sorry but dad was just really at his wits end and I didn't handle the sitch correctly. They forgave me.

Now if I do all of that all I want is the knowledge it is appreciated. But then she asks to go to NY to visit some friends and I really don't think at this point I have the charge in my batteries for that. Then it is the retreat.

She never even acknoledged the fact that YS had soccer and baseball those weekends. LOL.

She made it sound like me doing that was no big deal.

I think the MC helped because she tried to say she didn't think I loved her and he said He is still here isn't he. LOL. That is what I have been telling her this whole time. I think it will be good because he kept telling her my actions were understandable.

When she brought up going to NY he said she should understand why I don't want her to go. Her friend she was visiting is the one that put her in touch with a lawyer to see what the possibility of my FWW leaving me and taking the kids to NY. LOL. Sure let me take on more stuff so you can visit someone that if I hated people, which I don't have the energy for, I would hate.

"What I really feel right now is that my FWW's attitude is that because I can do it I should."

You had mentioned something similiar the other day and the way stated it today made me think of WH. Oh, yes, the things I do...he can just as easily pick up the phone to make a phone call but I'm so much better at it because I deal with people more than he does...it's always an excuse as to why I should do it...

I have been trying forever to hand him back some of the stuff...like I refuse to cut the grass now...I don't care if it gets a foot tall...and I did hire someone last time but that's the last time...

Kind of want to make you say "I tired of handling my [email]sh@t[/email] and your's. Get with the program."


"Now I know why I stay up so late. I need some time to unwind"

AMEN!

I'm liking this MC too. What state do you live in?

I live in california.

You see what I think I like the most is the BS has to stop. LOL. She really had her mask on the other night. But he saw through it.

Like I said he pegged the parent/child pattern. LOL.

I type about 50 words per minute. So I am the typist.
I cook better. So I am the chef.
I have a higer tolerance for the kids so I am the disceplanarian.
I deal with finances better.

She does laundry better. LOL.

Look I got into this knowing she wasn't a good cook so I do that.

And again if by doing those things there is a sense of appreciation and a sense that I need to have time to recharge I would be great.

One of her biggest obstacles is how she downgraded and was very unappreciative after the A. She justified her A by saying I didn't do some of the things I actually did do.

I need to know that what I do is taken into account and stored in a safe place in case I need to take a withdrawl.

Evidently the deposits I made into the FWW's LB were not FDIC insured. LOL.

So before I go out of my way to make a whole bunch of deposits I want to make sure the security at the bank has gotten better. Somebody was taking withdrawls from my account and it wasn't me.

What is it with them an downgrading?

Didn't OM live in a basement?

While WH's OW is 17 years older, a busdriver w/5 kids and lives in an apartment. Nothing against the apt., but that was like sleeping with his mother...NO! Couldn't do it and I know why b/c of the abuse with my SF. That's disguising to me! MY 2cents of course!

Move...across the country...I would have said no!

Oh she didn't down grade me in comparison to him.

She downgraded my positives and my deposits. That occured before the A.

So until I am sure the leak in that bank has been patched I am making deposits that I won't resent to much if they slip through the hole.

So if I notice a deposit has been made and it isn't added to the bank statement I slow down.

She is actually starting to see the little deposits now because there haven't been any real big ones lately. But then again she hasn't made any really big ones either.

oh, okay....LOL

talk about miss communication! LOL

I've got to figure something out! And soon!

So we went to MC on Weds night. I felt pretty good after the fact but now have this pit in my stomach.

I know it should be good for us but today I feel like a tidal wave of emotions. I can't figure out why I feel this way.

I don't know if I can do this is how I feel. I don't know if talking about the past and trying to work through the emotions and hurt are something I am capable of.

I am not in a dark spot I am just not standing in the sun.

Is this normal?

What's worse than giving up all hope? Getting a little of that back <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.

You're going from your safe, withdrawn space to re-engaging with the one who hurt you. It was easier when you had the strength of 'FINE, I DONT CARE, ANYMORE'.

Recovery is HARD. Harder than divorce. It is your choice. Recovery will be scary like this. Yes, it's normal. Remember - you're on the [color:"blue"]Recovery Rollercoaster:[/color] Every emotion will be followed by an equal and opposite emotion, on this ride. Hang tight! - Dru

Dru,

Thank you. That pretty much sums it up scary.

Holding on tight. Got my seatbelt and lapbar firmly in position.

I just couldn't understand why I felt this way.

Good man! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi HL,



So, you enforce your boundary by telling her (without AOs, right?) that a behaviour of hers is not acceptable, or that her going away is not Ok with you. Then, she has an AO? and withholds sex, and claims that this is her own boundary enforcement?

It seems she is either misusing, or has never understood, the concept of boundaries. As you know, they are not about controlling the actions and responses of others.

I agree that detachment is probably your only option here. Keeping calm. Deep breathing. Looking after yourself. Imagine you are a complete stranger, someone like your MC, watching this interaction. Protect yourself. Perhaps say something like " I won't stay here while you speak in that tone of voice. I am going out and will be back in half an hour." etc.

IMO it will help with the division of housework if you stop doing things for her. I imagine it must be hard to resist if you hear the kids fighting or if they want something. But, what is the worst that could happen if your S does not get his glass of water straight away, or at all?

If your W says she will do it.... let her. If she tells the kids to brush their teeth...let her deal with it. If you must, try going to make a phone call or something else to distract yourself from intervening. She is their M.
You are teaching her that she doesn't have to do her share of the childcare, or to even learn how to do it properly.

I understand what you say about it being difficult to keep up detachment while doing MC and discussing the past. I think maybe you need that detachment (with love) more now than ever. Don't place your full trust in her until she has proved to be trustworthy.

About the weekend away...is there anything you could do for yourself that might make you feel ok about her taking that weekend off? Could you plan some time away for yourself? You sound exhausted, and like you could do with some time off. Maybe this could be in your POJA?

It really sounds tough to me. (((Hl))))
I think you are doing really well just to go to MC. I understand why you might be reluctant to go.

She understands the concept of her own boundaries. Her incremental enforcement is such that I chose not to cross them because on a scale of 1 to 10 she starts at about a 5 when enforcing them.

It is that shift that needs to be dealt with. If I do something wrong and cross her boundry I will not argue with her about the boundry being wrong.

I take ownership of this issue though because quite frankly I let her cross my boundaries. Before the A if she crossed a boundry I had two choices enforce it and have it escalate into a fight about moving back to NY or just let it go. Since I didn't want to fight about how evil and mean I was for not moving back to NY I let it go.

Now what she has is a shock into reality that she can bring it back to NY all she wants I am still going to enforce my boundries.

It is funny you posted about letting her do stuff. Yesterday was the 1st day of school and YS birthday. I helped her get a new job less hours less responsibility. Now I am looking for a new job. I could not really commit to anything until I knew her schedule.

Well I got home and put my resume together and was looking for jobs. She kept calling me and I kept telling her I am posting. Hey HL can you sharpen these 12 pencils.... I ask OS when he needs this stuff he says friday. Well she then starts yelling to me how do you spell. I finally said, I am trying to post my resume. Bad Attitude shift coming on. LOL.

Now mind you when I spent the time doing her resume and helping her it was ok. Now she decides to sit down and do all this stuff last night when it is not due until friday.

YS doesn't want to go to dinner yet because he was having fun. I said ok five minutes. It was his birthday. She starts lecturing me about how I am letting a 7 year old dictate to me. I said it is his birthday if he wants to play and that makes him happy that is what a birthday is about. Well how are you going to let a 7 year old.....

I was just detached I didn't even care. LOL.

She started with I am not even hungry now so go where you want to go.

In the past I would have gotten upset. Not last night it was YS birthday. There was more but you get the point.

I have no problem staying in detachment. I honestly think that as long as she keeps minimizing her things I will have to stay detached. I realized that was what was bugging me yesterday.

In the MC she said yet again that she barely spent anytime with OM and that I keep making it sound like more then it was. UMMM you slept with another man. In the first 13 days after you were with him on your first date you spent 70-80 percent of your nights with him including our anniversary. If that is barely spending time with someone I am missing something. She maximized me having her thrown in jail though for hitting me.

Until her perspective changes mine cannot.

As far as the weekend stuff I don't think I will agree to any of that for a while.

Not to be punitive but since everything I do is minimized it doesn't make sense to go out of my way.

If over the last three years she put effort into doing things for me then I would do them for her. But she really hasn't.

I would not be able to look myself in the mirror feeling like I am being taken advantage of. I don't mind if she cannot put as much into this M as me on a day to day basis but then don't ask to take stuff out.

Like I said before it has been more about her sense of entitlement for these things and the minimization of the effort I would have to make to make it possible. I have not seen that type of effort from her. Then for her to minimize what I would need to do just let me know it wouldn't be fully appreciated.

Hard to appreciate something that is no big deal.

Hopefully MC will help us through these things.

The good thing I got out of it was that she has told me I am crazy and I need help. Well the MC said she should definately see an IC and I should consider it. LOL. The sane one definately should see one and the crazy one should consider it.

Last night was our second MC session. It was kinda weird. He said the second session he usually discuss' our upbringing.

So I went through mine and she went through hers. I was kinda at a loss but I figured he knew what he was doing. LOL.

So he brought it back and said the way you deal with conflict today is based on your upbringings. LOL.

My FWW agreed whole heartedly and so did I. I did not throw in the caveat that after the A I didn't want to deal with it like I did before and that has caused a lot of conflict.

He asked me what he thought how my child hood effected me. I said it made me a codependant, enabler with conflict avoidence issues. LOL.

He said give some examples and I did.

Well any way it seems like it is working.

Beleive it or not we needed a car and I didn't want to commit to a payment because of the problems. Last night I had no problem doing it.

I know it sounds weird. We actually POJA'd on it. I had one payment in mind. When they came back she really wanted the car. I did not want it at that price.

I said I have a number in mind and that isn't it. I like the car but not the payments. I don't want to do that. I said however if you agree to pick up enough extra hours every month to offset the extra and do without some of the nail and hair stuff I will have no problem. She said I will work extra and I would rather have the car then my nails done.

I enthusiastically agreed.

No regrets today. And she actually called and left me a voicemail about how great of a man I am.

I'm bouncing off the walls for you! That is really something! WOW! HL!

I've got to go, but that is great!

Great to hear some good news HL!
I'm glad the MC is making things a little easier - hang in there with it all ok?

(((HL)))

Take care,
B.

How very nice! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> You know 1/2 the spouses here would be kicking and screaming all the way to MC. That she's willing, and that she can be kind says so much. Congratulations, but remember... rollercoaster! It will swing back the other way, dont panic, ride it out. I hope you have a good holiday weekend! - Dru

Hi, I'm right there with Dru wishing you a great weekend. H and I are headed to Liberty, TX for a biker rally for the weekend. A friend may be going with us so we will know someone.

I was really impressed that she's willing to give up her nail stuff for the car and I loved the message! Wishing you the best!