Smur,

Thank you. Yes the cycle continues I think the most important part she misses is Validate and Empathize.

There is always a rational reason for her behavior that I don't get. Meaning it isn't really rational so just drop it. LOL.

I actually have her password and now she is bidding on more clothes.

I am not going to accumulate resentment. I am going to let her know it is not acceptable to me. She can continue down this path and for as long as she does I will remain detached until re attaching will be impossible.

I know my truth and I speak my truth and the MC seems to agree with my truth.

I like your idea though. I am not going to get into banter about it. It was your assignment. You didn't do it. I feel as though when you don't do them you don't want to do whatever it takes to save this M.

Reading the book is hard though. I am not that far into it and I am being triggered and I keep getting this no duh thing going in my head.

I see the benefit in my work in me and it is making me have some serios doubts about this M. I hate to say it but the MC seems to be identifying some very deep seeded problems in the FWW that may take a long time to overcome with a commitment on her part to do so.

Right now I don't see the commitment and I haven't in quite some time.

But the good thing is I will work to stop the cycle with a mind to never repeating it again.

So today is the FWW's B Day.

This is when it hit the fan. Three days before her B Day I spoke with OM and he admitted the A but the FWW didn't.

That weekend was wonderful. I went all out for her B Day. Only to have my world come crashing down around me a few days later.

I woke up this morning and wished her a happy B Day and had a feeling just wash over me. I can't describe it.

I know three years is a long time and at this point I feel like I/we should be much further a long then we are. My FWW just a few months ago admitted more about her A and I am sure that has something to do with it.

We are in MC now and I don't know if things are changing for the positive.

Something came back to me today that I haven't really thought about too much.

The day my FWW admitted to the A we went straight to MC. He asked me what I wanted out of all of this. I said the only thing that I want is for this M to be better then it ever was. It is the only way for me to be able to live with the thought of this.

Today almost three years later I can honestly and truly say our M is not better then it was before the A.

I have changed a lot thanks to MB and the support I have gotten here.

I have learned to take ownership. I have had to go through some pretty tough self examination. I had to take my part in the deterioration of our M that made my M suceptable to an A. I had to realize I was a codpendent, enabler with conflict issues.

It is hard to think about how screwed up I was before this.

Now I don't see my FWW wanting to do the work necessary to change. She has resisted change now for 3 years.

The MC gave her some homework and she hasn't done it. She is backtracking out of it. This will help our M. He even said if I give you homework and you don't do it then what we do here will not work.

I have thought back over these last three years and this is typical. She doesn't want to do the work.

Have I been angry, upset, hurtful, sometimes mean. Yes I have. Do I regret it? Yes I do.

Why because she won't do the work.

I tried to do a status report in my M this morning. I have come to the realization that her not doing the work is the norm. Every thing I have asked her to do to help me recover she really puts very little energy into. The things I have asked her not to do she does anyway.

Some of this has changed but not on a consistent basis that makes me believe I should keep expecting it in the future.

I don't know anymore. I read these boards sometimes and I see people 6 months past D Day lapping me in recovery. Why am I so far behind.

Now the MC is seeing the dynamic in our M and is trying to show my FWW her part. He is actually agreeing with me. He is trying to tell her she escalates normal situations into conflict.

I am a better person now I know that. I am using what I have learned here in more of my relationships not just in my M.

I am not longer codependent on this relationship. I will not enable her distructive behavior and I will not back down and be a conflict avoider.

My FWW seems to see these as negative things.

This weekend I saw my old FWW come out again. I saw the person she was pre A. I didnt' like it. She didn't like that I didn't like it. Go figure.

I am moving forward, I am proud of who I have become.

I just need more energy put in on her part for this to work out.

The fact that she isn't doing her homework at this time makes me feel like she just doesn't seem to value this M. Because if she did she would do anything necessary to make things better. Someone says the FWS should do whatever it takes for as long as it takes.

I just haven't seen that and I am cetainly becoming less hopefull about ever seeing that.

Sorry for the pity party, boo hooo, wo is me post but I just needed to get it out of me.

How are the kids?

are they still 10 & 6 years of age?

can you stay married until they are out of highschool?

Pep

Pep,

They are now 11 and 7. They are doing better now. I mean they are part of the reason I am here. But again through what I have learned here it has helped me with them.

I don't know if I can stay married that long.

The main reason I feel this way is the FWW cannot or will not change her expectations of what she is entitled to in our M.

She doesn't take ownership and doesn't see her part. I mean could I stay sure. It wouldn't be all that hard if she just realized that she is not entitled to anything from me until I feel like I can expect anything from her.

She still wants and asks for and needs things she is not willing to give. When I say no she is not happy.

Three years ago I asked for her to dress up in lingerie for me and to get me some cards that express her feelings.

I mean is that too much to ask? How many times has she done this? Not a lot to be honest. These seem like small requests to me.

I have wanted more for so long. I just want some signs that she will be willing to give them.

Maybe I am just having an off day.

it's a choice within your reach

Pep

Pep,

Sometimes you pop in and I hate it. Why because you are almost always right. Tell Donkey I said hello by the way.

I will say this though I have made the choice up until this point and I am really starting to question it.

The least she could do is "give me some tots" I would be happy with that.

Right now I am still making that choice but when the old mind kicks in and I really haven't seen a change it makes it harder to keep making that choice.

Well, you changed the title and messed me up MAN!

LMAO

I hear that you are very aware of your sitch and the choices that you have.

I don't think there's anything that anyone can say once that choice is made. You are very strong willed!

Rin,

I haven't made the choice. I am trying to figure out why I haven't.

Example: After MC I discussed my feeling for the 3 years pre A. She says she now feels that way and doesn't like it. So do we address the M pre A? No that is in the past and there is nothing she can do about it. Do we address the way she feels now? Yep. The homework was to help us through how she feels.

She refuses to take part in the information gathering for a decesion and expects to decide how to deal with the decesion. So gather the info and discuss it with me. NOPE.

How hard is it. Not to mention it is for our OS' not me. She was supposed to call the school and talk to the conselor about taking him out of honors and into college prep.

Meanwhile OS had problems in school with another kid. I had to call the Vice Principle to talk about it.

So I put in the effort and she doesn't. This is for my Son. So now she is back to wanting me to take care of it.

But trust me she wants to make decesions when they are for her without my input. I am at the point now that indifference has set in.

Do you think indifference make a M?

I do understand where you are coming from. I hear that you are tired of the double standard. I don't think that YOU are READY to make that choice yet...is it because you hope that she will change? Perhaps through MC? AA?


Are you wishing for something? Are do you love her so much that you are willing to stick it out?

Why DO YOU chose to stay? WHy?

Rin,

No I do not think indifference makes a good M or any M for that matter.

I have to make that choice right now. Does it bother me she isn't doing what the MC asked? Yes. Does it bother me as much as it used to no.

I am not wishing for anything. I have a clear goal in mind, I think it should be a common goal. A great M. I have worked from that assumption and I know what I need from my FWW to get there. I know what I need to do to get there for myself. I don't see this as a common goal. I can't remember when that was a common goal of my FWW's.

I think she is wishing for that. The difference between a wish and a goal are actions. If you set a goal and do everything to get there you probably will.

Why do I chose to stay? I am starting to wonder that myself. Up until this point it was because I thought she would eventually share my goal.

This last thing is making me wonder if she even cares about that. I think the MC opened my eyes a little to this. I think she wanted to go to MC to show me my part. Instead he is showing her her part.

I am running out of patience. Yes I thought AA and MC would change things. Not her necessarily but her view of things.

To me it seems like a big struggle. It is pretty aparent at this point she wants to go back to the Pre A M. Sorry but that M sucked for me. It was in retrospect pretty darn good for her. But that is where it seems she wants to get back to. Imagine that you had an A because the M was bad and now that is what you want to get back to.

So now I wait until next MC session. Grinning and bearing it.

Oh btw I figured out part of my feelings today. Yesterday morning FWW promised SF and then decided against it. This morning she climbs on top of me and says "you know I like SF in the mornings(can't do that and get kids ready). I was kinda tired last night she says. No reference to her not living up to her promise.

I don't know how many times I have told her just not to say anything about SF because if she does say she will and then doesn't I get dissapointed.

I know today sucks and maybe my perspective will change but I am pretty tired now.

Perhap the rest of the day should be spend on as nuch self-care as you can!

Have you been resting well?

Rin,

LOL at that question. Lets see.

Thursday - Soccor and AA
Friday - Not so bad
Saturday - Get car, wash car Soccor
Sunday - Double header baseball
Monday - AA meeting
Tuesday - Baseball from 5:30 til 7:30 plus OS project OS has acting
Weds - Up early to go to LA 3 hours in traffic there and 2 on the way home. Homework with the OS. Talk with vice principle. NO MC because of back to school night which we didn't go to
Thursday- Soccor and FWW's BD taking off to get kids soon. Possibly AA.

Oh and I work too. LOL.

I think I figured it out I have 20 minutes a week for me. LOL. Better use it wisely.

OS now wants to stay up till 9:30 and FWW goes to bed at 10 to 10:30 unless she is watching an auction on ebay that is closing and she has a bid in.

No SF either.

Well off to pick up YS becuse FWW is working late today. Which BTW is five o'clock.

Oh, MY! I knew you were busy but I COULD NOT HANDLE THAT! You're a better person that I!

Yeap, you heard me! I would not last long! Would refuse to do all of that!

Heck, last year was too busy for me! and that was only M-W!

Retreat to the BAthroom and lock the door! LMAO Better yet, you probably like to be outside smoking! Try to get the whole twenty minutes in at once. LMAO

Have a good day!

LOL,

I forgot FWW takes OS to school. I get up and get YS ready and take him to school.

Not to mention the day to day stuff not on my Schedule.

LOL maybe that is why I feel this way today.

Kinda tired and worn and I am looking and my schedule is pretty hectic. I could use a break.

***The MC gave her some homework and she hasn't done it. She is backtracking out of it.***

HL - Passive/Aggressive individuals will defeat and sabotage any counselor in the same way they defeat and sabotage their spouse. Your wife is just following the script.

You will have to call her on this behaviour, too. It's deliberate and you know it. She knows it, too.

Have you ever spoken the words "passive/aggressive" to your MC? Your MC should have been the first to call out your wife on her behaviour, but way too many counselors don't even know what P/A means much less recognize it when it's happening right in front of their face. Sad, but true.

You're going to have to bring it up in counseling if you ever want it dealt with.
Mulan

Hi HL,

You're wore out... this has been three years, you're tired, no mystery here. Your schedule IS crazy, but I've seen worse. I wish you could work in some personal time, a gym or something. Our MC quickly caught onto that fact that I was doing very litte 'fun'. He thought that was signifigant. We've got to recharge our batteries from time to time, you know.




Of course you feel this way. It's been a long road. Give yourself a break for feeling down, OK? It happens, you're allowed.


MC and AA take TIME. AA takes LOTS of time. Years.

then

That's almost comical... DETACH, dude! Being non-codependant means HER moods and actions cannot cause you to behave poorly. He gave HER the work. It's not YOUR job to monitor her and make sure she does it! I'd guess MC was testing BOTH of you, and you've both crashed.


Yes, and I'm sure that was MC's point, too. He's going to point out that she's not honoring her agreements.


There's not a BS in the world who hasnt questioned the changes in their spouce. Whether they were genuine or would last. You're in a transitional state right now... nothing is set in stone yet.


You got a late start... doesnt mean you cant catch up.


I also suspect if he gets visibly any further into your corner your W will stop MC all together. PA's are famous for 'having everyone gang up on them' and quitting. My exH did that with two MC's


Go back to my Comical statement <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Yes, you have made good progress, I totally agree.



It's ok. Rollercoaster, remember? You've had good days, too, admit it! I suspect she'll flop a few more assignments before getting it right. Dont put all of your eggs on this one assignment. You can hang in there for the kids, and she might surprise you along the way. You can handle this! - Dru

Oh, have you read SLICK50's thread on the EN board? He's married to your W's twin. Their personalities are so similiar I have a hard time keeping you two straight in my head. His W didnt have an A, but she may be more stubborn than your W. Might be interesting reading - Dru

Hi HL,

Sorry to hear that you're feeling bad about things at the moment. What can you do to take care of yourself? Its clear that you're exhausted from working so hard and not looking after yourself. If you keep going like this you might really get sick, and then the situation will only be more difficult.

What about leaving work an hour or two earlier, and going to the movies or to the gym or for a swim or just something you like doing?
It wouldn't be slacking off, since you are clearly sick. Maybe not physically, but mentally and spiritually, and that is just as important.

What about asking FWW to take the kids to some of those activities?

What about planning a weekend day out doing something fun with a friend or friends, without FWW, in a few weeks or so, so you can give her lots of warning?

The first thing that (us) recovering co-dependents need to learn is how to take our focus away from what others are or are not doing and back on to us and what we need. So, what do you need most right now?

Imagine if the worst happened, and you two were divorced.

In the times when she had the kids, she would have to get them up, take them to school, take them to activities, call the school.... etc.
Not to mention budget for herself, do housework and generally organise her life.

Wouldn't it be awful for you to go through the trauma of a D, only to find that after that she was suddenly doing all those things that you would have wanted from her?

So, what would be the difference between that situation and now? If you were D'd, you would be detached. You would have stopped doing things for her. She would have no choice but to take reponsibility.

So why not try practising greater detachment now? Either way, you can only benefit. Your kids have 2 parents.

HL- I was wondering if you could take some time to go to my thread and give me your view of porn...read my sitch...offer some advice...

I read some of your posts on another thread and go figure, your thought were something I think could help me...I also like rogueX's and he posted a little...

I wasn't aware that we can't use PMs here. The only other way, I have to PM is through my work yahoo, and FWH's. I should have wrote that back to RogueX.

I'm hoping that you feel better today and that your weekend goes better than the last. Is this your day for the 20 minutes of YOU time? LMAO

Thank You all from the bottom of my Heart.

I couldn't post last night but I read all of your responses and it touched me.

Mulan


Not yet I haven't. I plan to when her pattern of behavior in MC will bear out what I say in regards to PA behavior. I wanted to but then I thought to myself that a PA can mask their behavior. I think the MC is starting to see it though. I have made sure to point out in every sitch she somehow becomes the victim. I have pointed out a lot of the behavior without putting the label on it yet. But I will.

Dru

Point taken but I do need to clarify. I was using Do I get upset.... in the past tense. I have detached and it is helping. Yesterday a wave just hit me. But those words were supposed to be in the past tense. LOL.

The one thing I will admit is her moods etc do effect me when they effect the kids. That I cannot help.

I try to just stop and count to ten. I have come to expect less then nothing. I don't expect nothing I expect less then nothing.

It was a comical statement though. To be honest I am worn out. Last night was her B Day and I just had to stop and tell YS there was no way to go to soccor practice last night. I just couldn't do it. FWW was going to take him but I had already cooked dinner we needed to eat and do the birthday cake etc. I didn't have the energy to do it.

Smur,

I don't get sick. LOL. I dont' know why but I don't. LOL. The whole family can be sick and I walk around perfectly fine. There was a time I worked 38 days straight when I was a waiter because everyone was getting sick so I covered their days. I was the only one that didn't get it.

Maybe I should so I can take a break. LOL.

Yes the schedule is hard. I just listed the things on our schedule there is of course more.

FWW could take them to some but there is a problem. I help out in Baseball so I am committed to going. I told the coaches I would and I told YS I would. Soccor is the same night as her AA meeting so if she takes them no AA. She has offered but she gets really off center if she doesn't go. Last week it was on Weds so she did.

Yes if we were divorced she would have to do all of those things. I think that is a point I should make in MC when she says she does all she can. If that is all you are capable of how will you do it if I am not around?

Now here is the kicker. Yesterday I took off early. My FWW got home when I usually do.

I stopped on the way home from school and got some groceries. Gave YS 15 minutes then did his homework. OS of course forgot his so I told him that he needs to go in today get it and get it done before class. I cooked dinner, cleaning as I go. To be honest it wasn't that hard. I know it sounds like a lot but it wasn't.

This is what she makes such a big deal about how hard it is to get it all done. I am not trying to say it was easy to do but it wasn't earth shattering. LOL.

So the hardest part of yesterday was buying her a birthday card. I have been getting her the funny ones not the sappy ones because I didn't feel like she lived up to the words in the sappy cards.

I got her one yesterday and I kinda felt like a liar. I don't feel like the words in the card say I do. I do want to get there but I just don't feel that way.

So right now I am calm. Mostly because of the words of encouragement you all gave me.

I really do appreciate it.

THANK YOU ALL!!!!!

bump...

I don't think I had anything to do with that! Matter of fact, I think I get more advice from you than I give to you.

LOL...at least I'm a shoulder...