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2BNormal, in this e-mail you've posted, Dr Harley confirms himself what I've always thought e.g. that exposure should be discussed with the spouse first and only be done with the spouse's enthusiastic agreement.
Thanks for posting Dr Harley's reply on this 2BNormal. I still want to send Dr Harley an e-mail on my specific situation to get clarity from him too.
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2BNormal, I would definately say that - since you've received an agreement from your H (although it was not "enthusiastic") - that you must continue with the exposure and send the OW the letter.
I do think it's not always posssible to get an "enthusiastic" agreement (like in your case), but as long as their is still an agreement with your H (which there is) I think it's fine continue with the exposure.
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It's funny Suzet, I am not disputing your read on his reply.. it is just much different than mine.
What I pick out of this stuff is that you and hubby are failing to live up to your obligations to follow the "golden rule." I pick up on "you would want someone to tell you..." and this "I have always recommended that the betrayed spouse be told about the affair." He says ALWAYS... not when you feel like it.
Respectfully, I strongly disagree with your take on his reply. And I will repeat what I have always said.. I don't need a therapist, no matter his credentials, to tell me to do the moral thing.
I hope you are well Suzet.
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You know 2BNormal, I have given it some thought again and actually I would change my view a bit and say that I agree with Dr Harley that exposure should be discussed with the spouse first and only be done with the spouse's agreement …but not necessarily “enthusiastic” agreement. As I’ve said, to reach an “enthusiastic” agreement will not always be possible for all situation in life and M, although it is the ideal.
Let's take your case for example:
I don't think your H will ever get "enthusiastic" about this exposure (from anything you've said about it in the past), but the fact that he has agree to it in the end is enough.
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Further, if you read Harley's reply... it would be YOUR responsibility to try and get that agreement from your H. YOU, being the one with the awareness of the power of exposure, should be making a repeated case to your H about the benefits of doing so. When he is clear that there are great benefits in doing so, you would have the agreement you feel necessary to proceed.
Suzet... it is my opinion, that you have not tried to steer this situation in a fashion that would PUSH for exposure.
This is just my opinion.
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As most of you know, I did not have H's "enthusiastic agreement."
If I had to do it all over again, would I tell OMW?
Yes.
Yes, yes, absolutely, yes.
I needed to tell her in order to continue to protect my M.
I needed to tell her for my own personal recovery and to make amends for what I had done to her and her family.
Eventhough this caused conflict in my M, I feel like I am a stronger and better person for telling OMW.
H and I still disagree on this issue, but he understands why I did it. We have been getting along wonderfully.
I love my H and will be with him forever. I will forever be sorry for hurting OMW and her family.
KM
Me: FWW (34) H: BS (35) Together 12 years, no children (yet) LTA: 3 years D-Day: Sept. 13, 2005 (I confessed)
So blessed, thankful and happy for my wonderful H...
"God lives in the gathering of saints."
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First 2Be, Let me state that I REALLY Appreciate the way in which you worded your question. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Instead of trying to use language to kind of "shade" Dr. Harley's response in one direction or the other ......you pretty much kept it neutral (thereby letting HIM answer the real question). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That was a nice job and I for One am Glad to get his response to the bottom line question of "if" the OPS should be told about an A [irrelevant of the time frame that has past]. Good Going! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> [For that you get a *High Five* & 2 BIG Thumbs Up]!! Next, Guess people will focus on what they want to. {shrugs} For me the FIRST line says Plenty. As has been stated numerous times on multiple threads: From Dr Harley: "I have always recommended that the betrayed spouse be told about the affair. In addition , the 2nd line is just as good; from Dr Harley: "I think it's what You would want someone to tell You if your husband had an affair. So there it is: In his FIRST 2 Sentences he's pretty much summed up the position that FARR TOOO many have been attacked over - again & again (just by them having the nerve to state and defend it). Thanx Dr. Harley ........we always had your back ......thanx for Clearing up ours. We never had any doubts ........wish THIS would end the controversy ......but it never seems too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Fooling people is serious business, but when you fool yourself it Becomes Fatal.
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I’m very well thanks MEDC… I was away from these boards for 2 days (needed a break). This morning I’ve also read about the horrible and sick note you received and I just want to say I’m so sorry this happened to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> No one deserves something like this. Therefore I hope you are well too...
What you’ve picked out from Dr Harley response to 2BN…yes, I’ve picked up on that stuff too. The only reason I highlighted the other part (of the agreement) in my response to 2BN is because it provided an answer on what I was previously wondering about e.g. exposure versus POJA. That’s all. No doubt by me that exposure is indeed the right and moral thing to do and I also don’t need a professional’s opinion on that. What I was looking for was Dr Harleys opinion on POJA versus exposure (where the couple can’t reach an agreement on exposure to the OPS e.g. which one come first – exposure or agreement from the BS) and this post from 2BN helped to provide an answer.
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2B...
I was under the distinct impression that you had already decided to tell OMW...What exactly made you waiver, and feel that you needed further clarification on this matter?
Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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It's interesting . . . I focused on something else in the correspondence.
I felt that Dr. Harley's caveat of having the spouse's enthusiatic agreement was due in this case to the age and current state of the affair -- dead and over with for quite some time. If the affair was still going on (or the OM was still pursuing 2BNormal) I think disclosure is imperative with or without anyone's approval.
I always interpreted the purpose of disclosure to be to bring the affair into the light of the truth where it can wither and die.
In my case I disclosed the continued pursuit of her by an ex-lover to his wife. On the same day I disclosed the existence of a long-term emotional affair between my wife and a different man to his wife. I knew both would totally spin my wife into the ceiling (and believe me, when I told her what I did she let me know of her enthusiastic disapproval).
Since both of these men lived in other states, I needed to know there would be someone important in their immediate lives to "keep them honest" and away from my wife.
I believed it served its purpose.
If the affair is on-going (even from just one side), I believe disclosure is an imperative.
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I’m very well thanks MEDC… I was away from these boards for 2 days (needed a break). This morning I’ve also read about the horrible and sick note you received and I just want to say I’m so sorry this happened to you. No one deserves something like this. Therefore I hope you are well too... Thanks for this. I don't take this stuff to heart... but I was angry... and then determined to find the person. She won't be a problem again. As far as the rest of your post... I understand where you are coming from Suzet... I truly do... but I honestly feel that if you went to your H and said... I feel this needs to be done to protect our M, to do what is right by the other woman, to make me feel that I have corrected a horrible thing I did to her... etc, etc,,,that you would eventually get that agreement from your H. And Dr. Harley is isn't shy in using the word ALWAYS. Thanks again for your thoughts.
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2Be, Yes indeed .....that is usually that case. Too true ...that's why I mentioned it. I'm not immune. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
As to your wording, Face it MOST people won't do that. They want to gain that edge (to their position) by phrasing it a certain way [thereby influencing the answer]. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
So I just thought you totally Deserved to be recognized and acknowledged for going against that Usual Tendency. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Your doing that actually made my Day ......silly as it sounds ..........I thought it was a Most Excellent thing to Do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Bravo! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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MrsW, TIME. I was not able to send the letter due to having company recently. This TIME allowed my H and I to discuss this further. It was then, that I realized I did not have my H's "enthusiastic" agreement, or any agreement at all from him. He was the one waivering and thus the cause of further discussions. Why doesn't your husband wish for OMW to know the truth? What reasons does he give you? Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Is it not a [color:"blue"] BEAUTIFUL THING [/color] when reason and conscience come together ???
[color:"red"] I needed to tell her in order to continue to protect my M. [/color] Katie Mae is on my ***FWW I admire most*** list !!!
[color:"blue"] The award monies are "in the mail" [/color]
.... PS ukulele lessons maybe?
XOXO Pep <~~~ love me some KM today
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Pep...
I am in wholehearted agreement with you on your KatieMae observation...She's a good egg...
Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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