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MEDC, I hope 2BN will go through with the letter to the OMW - especially since she received her H's agreement previously. In my 2nd post on this thread, I've also advised her to do so and I told her why (in spite of the fact that she can't get her H's "enthusiastic" agreement).
I honestly believe 2BN is/was honest and sincere in her intentions... She feels the moral obligation of informing OMW...and to do the right thing...but at the same time she have this major concern about her H…she cannot get her H's enthusiastic agreement about this…and she doesn’t want to do further harm to her H and M...and I can honestly understand this concern of her. That's why I believe she was attacked unnecessarily and didn’t deserve it... That’s all.
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Dang Ya'll. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> What Happenend? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I was trying to participate in the Discussion part. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> But my post seemed to get by passed for the bickering. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Hate when that Happens. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
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2B,
I fear too much time has passed and it now it seems "too late" to send your letter.
My H agreed to a letter the first day we talked about it, but I knew he would re-think it if I didn't act fast.
I mailed it the next day, and it was one day too late. H was upset. He had changed his position, as I knew he would. He is a conflict avoider. He admitted his conflict avoidance was part of his discomfort with the letter. He didn't want to have to deal with the fallout if there was any.
I think you waited too long and now your H's disapproval is wearing on you. It's easier to just let it go then to send it.
Am I right? Just a hunch...
Me: FWW (34)
H: BS (35)
Together 12 years, no children (yet)
LTA: 3 years
D-Day: Sept. 13, 2005 (I confessed)
So blessed, thankful and happy for my wonderful H...
"God lives in the gathering of saints."
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t/j
I love you all, too...
Thank you for the kind words (blushing)...
End of t/j
Katie Mae
Me: FWW (34)
H: BS (35)
Together 12 years, no children (yet)
LTA: 3 years
D-Day: Sept. 13, 2005 (I confessed)
So blessed, thankful and happy for my wonderful H...
"God lives in the gathering of saints."
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Dr. Harley,
Thank you for a wonderful site.
There have been many discussions of late pertaining to exposure and POJA.
I have a concern that I would like to hear your opinion on. You have advocated that a BS is to be told of an A in all cases. Yet, there is a thought on the board that this should be a POJA issue between the FWS and the BS. I feel that there is a moral obligation for the FWS to make sure the affair partners spouse is aware of the A. I feel that even absent "enthusiastic agreement" from the BS that this serves two purposes: protecting your own marriage and making amends to a person that has been wronged (by both WS). I feel that the "Golden Rule" should apply here and that the OBS should be made aware of the A.
I would like to hear your thoughts on this. I would have liked to have called this question into your show but am unable to do so.
Thank you again for the valuable service you offer.
Regards,
Robert (mkeverydaycnt) Email sent to Dr. Harley today.
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Here's a comparison. Lets say that you felt just terrible about the hurricane Katrina victims. you felt that it was a moral imperative to donate $1000 to hurricane relief victims fund. Your husband did not agree with this. You decide to do it anyway. This example would be a violation of POJA in my opinion. However, yours is NOT an example situation representing personal moral obligations to right a wrong I might have perpetrated on another human being. It I stole money from Katrina victims, and then wanted to confess and give the money back, that is a non-POJA issue. It's an issue between me & my God & my conscience. Pep
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Hi Top Rope,
Just wanted to say I thought your post was excellent.
I especially agreed with this:
"Fear is what freezes them into InAction."
I think this is very true and what 2B is going through right now.
To quote the great Bob Pure... what would you do, 2B, if you weren't afraid?
Katie Mae
Me: FWW (34)
H: BS (35)
Together 12 years, no children (yet)
LTA: 3 years
D-Day: Sept. 13, 2005 (I confessed)
So blessed, thankful and happy for my wonderful H...
"God lives in the gathering of saints."
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Awww shucks, Well Thank ya kindly there Miss Katie. I've already told ya how much I appreciate your actions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But yes, its much like in Your situation ........severe CASE of buyers remorse. (Only Thankfully you had Already sent your correspondence before it took HOLD). Wheeew <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />[wipes brow] 2Be's gotten caught in having her delayed Reaction, result in a complete over analyzing the "possible" ramifications to the Nth degree. By examining it OVER and Over, from every possible angle ......what you usually get is MORE Fear and trepidation .....not less. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Why? Cause we almost to a one .....focus on the negatives .......especially with something as emotionally charged as this. Too bad really. I was really pleased to see her taking the Road Less Traveled. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Oh well, maybe sometime soon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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My apologies to those I dismissed for saying she would never do it and was just stringing us along.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"It I stole money from Katrina victims, and then wanted to confess and give the money back, that is a non-POJA issue. It's an issue between me & my God & my conscience."
Well if you're going to get picky about the example, I'll make it MORE picky :-)
lets say your HUSBAND stole money from the victims' aid fund. after 2 years (lets say) the "statute of limitations" runs out.
You want to give the money back. He's worried about consequences, and rationalizes "well, the victims are about as recovered as they're going to get at this point; $1000 spread around amoung 200,000 people isnt going to make any difference".
The parallels are now tighter on "your" marriage side: your husband is the one who did the damage. you want him to "make it right", insofar as it is possible at this late point. However, if he does not agree to give back the money, then it is a violation of POJA, and may also lead to other side messes.
Even if you agree to some other "moral equivalent" to avoid complication, like "donating" the money back to some foundation... you may feel better for yourself, that you have personally taken steps to "right a wrong".. but you're still doing something that damanges your marriage to do so.
You may feel guilt by association, in that your husband's financial gain, is also your gain. (similarly, you may feel guilt that OMW deserves to know, and so you "should" tell her). However, make no mistake, it does damange your marriage, and depending on your husband's view of it, it may be damage that may never be repairable. that's why it is crucial For The Marriage's Sake, to get full agreement before doing so.
ME: H, 35, married 9 years. 3 young sons
W:32, series of online "friendships"
1st D-day: some time 2004 (online EA) OM broke off, NC june 2005, but no recovery plan
2nd D-day: june 20th, 2006("ILY" to "friend"). W moved out next day.
Oct 2006, starts being around a 3rd guy instead. Mar 2007, stopped?
Current status: Separated. W filed D. in July 2006, served Dec 11th, my response filed Jan 8th
Most recent thread
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Except in this case techie..it *isn't* guilt by association..it is guilt proper.
2B is guilty..she had been considering doing right by *her* victim..but decided instead that her Hs lack of enthusiasm was adequate reason not to do so.
It is an issue that supercedes marriage building imo..personally I couldn't look at my own face in the mirror if I had chosen as 2B has..but it is she..her H..and sadly OMW who will have to live with the consequences.
I wonder..if at some point in the future..she discovers that OMW has contracted an STD..or been left in financial ruin..or fill in the blank..if this lack of enthusiasm will seem so very all determining. 2B has information relevent to this womans life..and perhaps even her health..she's not going to disclose it.
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"It I stole money from Katrina victims, and then wanted to confess and give the money back, that is a non-POJA issue. It's an issue between me & my God & my conscience."
Well if you're going to get picky about the example, I'll make it MORE picky :-)
lets say your HUSBAND stole money from the victims' aid fund. after 2 years (lets say) the "statute of limitations" runs out.
You want to give the money back. He's worried about consequences, and rationalizes "well, the victims are about as recovered as they're going to get at this point; $1000 spread around amoung 200,000 people isnt going to make any difference".
The parallels are now tighter on "your" marriage side: your husband is the one who did the damage. you want him to "make it right", insofar as it is possible at this late point. However, if he does not agree to give back the money, then it is a violation of POJA, and may also lead to other side messes.
Even if you agree to some other "moral equivalent" to avoid complication, like "donating" the money back to some foundation... you may feel better for yourself, that you have personally taken steps to "right a wrong".. but you're still doing something that damanges your marriage to do so.
You may feel guilt by association, in that your husband's financial gain, is also your gain. (similarly, you may feel guilt that OMW deserves to know, and so you "should" tell her). However, make no mistake, it does damange your marriage, and depending on your husband's view of it, it may be damage that may never be repairable. that's why it is crucial For The Marriage's Sake, to get full agreement before doing so. Hunny .... your example is far too convoluted to make sense to this old broad ... I prefer the KISS model of thinking ... which is.... keep it simple stupidso here is my ~KISS~ response if my H stole $$$ and refused to return it for such a flimsy reason ... I have a BIG-[censored] problem ~~~> I now know that I am married to a man of low character & he can not be trusted what life-time gain do I have remaining married to a cheat and/or a liar who refuses to make reparations to those he's harmed? as far as I can tell .... with such low character in a spouse, I could be his next victim Pep
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This has been an on going issue for quite awhile. What I don't understand is WHY Dr. Harley does enter the discussion and put an end to all these endless threads of differing opinion once and for all. Directly put his opinion on the record here for all to see. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
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My apologies to those I dismissed for saying she would never do it and was just stringing us along. No ML I owe YOU an apology - you were right. I was wrong. Folks - we've sadly all been conned. 2B I am very sorry for you that again you have pushed aside that still small voice. How very sad.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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Dr. Harley,
Thank you for a wonderful site.
There have been many discussions of late pertaining to exposure and POJA.
I have a concern that I would like to hear your opinion on. You have advocated that a BS is to be told of an A in all cases. Yet, there is a thought on the board that this should be a POJA issue between the FWS and the BS. I feel that there is a moral obligation for the FWS to make sure the affair partners spouse is aware of the A. I feel that even absent "enthusiastic agreement" from the BS that this serves two purposes: protecting your own marriage and making amends to a person that has been wronged (by both WS). I feel that the "Golden Rule" should apply here and that the OBS should be made aware of the A.
I would like to hear your thoughts on this. I would have liked to have called this question into your show but am unable to do so.
Thank you again for the valuable service you offer.
Regards,
Robert (mkeverydaycnt) Email sent to Dr. Harley today. MEDC, have you received a response from Dr Harley yet on the above e-mail you send him on Friday? If not, will you please share his response here as soon as you receive it?
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No response yet... as soon as I have one, I will let you all know.
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MEDC, have you still not receive a response from Dr Harley? If you’ve maybe posted his response somewhere else on this board, please let me know.
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Good Grief! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Not ANOTHER "deleteTOR"! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Say it ain't sooo, Joe. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I've truly grown to disLIKE the --run back and Edit a thread-- feature. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Almost ready to break into my pet peeve top 10. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
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