H told me in MC today that he doesn't love me, doesn't want to try anymore, is tired of this and he's moving out.

There is no OW at this point, he hasn't had any contact with her for quite a while, and there's no one else.

He just doesn't love me anymore.

He said that if he knew he could keep me as a friend and keep me as a mom for the kids (the kids are not biologically mine, but I have been their primary caregiver most of their lives), then he would have already been gone. Because as a wife, there was nothing there and he didn't even want to try to get anything back. He's done.

He is moving out next week while the kids and I are on vacation.

Here's my story thread, I can't change the title of it anymore, so that's why I'm posting a separate thread. I could really use some fast help. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...ID=#Post3078896

Time for Plan B?

It's got to happen pretty fast, I think.
He wants to move our renters out of our rental house and move in there. I own that house, am the only one on the title, and it was mine before the M. I do not want him to move in there because I need that rental income to help me pay the mortgate on our existing house. I want to keep both houses.

What do I need to do to protect myself financially right this minute? I don't want to file for D.

Thanks.
-AmI

AMI,

I am so sorry to hear that.

Get yourself to a Lawyer ASAP. You do not need to file for a D but you do need to protect yourself.

If he decides to go Plan B is your only option if you want to save your M.

I would not make it as easy on him as he would like it to be. Let him find his own place that does not take away income from you.

I might even tell him I am not kicking out tenants I trust to RENT to you.

I wish you the best at this hard time. Just remember everything you have learned here before you make any decesions.

Okay, I'll just post here. You answered some of my questions.

I agree with HL, make him find his own place...his choice...his consequences!

Don't make it easy...and I think that would be unfair to the renter...why does his problem become their problem? No, I wouldn't stand for it!

Do it just like you did the triatholon...your in the first leg...pace yourself...

Plan B...you're a lot stronger then you were...look how far you've come! You can do this!

AmI...until he really goes, do not believe he will...this is him saying what he's going to do...and not doing it yet. There is no current OW, but definitely a wayward state of mind. His own.

Be your great, respectful self and say that he can't move into the rental house, that it's yours. Say, "You're choosing to leave this marriage. I cannot aid you in anyway in doing that. Including my property and what I have to look out for myself."

Calm and whole, AmI...you know you are. This isn't you doing anything...not the cause, control or cure...this is all him...

What did your MC say when he said that?

Yes, get a lawyer...so you know what to let out of the house and what not to--if it comes to that. Your choice...you can file for a legal separation. There is marital debt and you want to be protected from whatever money he uses to move out.

Again...he's up and down...all him...and yes, Plan B to the max, if he does move out...entirely. Get a trusted third party for contact for the kids...you know they'll want to see you. And yes, he takes his kids, too...not because they're better off, but because that's part of his reality.

Now...just for today...breathe...know only what he is actually doing...ask when to tell the children, which day he's moving out...to let you know when he gets a place and a moving van...do not aid in anyway...ask only for information. Period.

You can do this. You can save your marriage, AmI. You can.

LA

On the advice of someone here, I had started a Plan B letter a long time ago .... "just in case"

Here's what I had, I've only taken aminute or two to sort of try to make it fit the current situation.

I won't give it to him unless he moves out. I will tell him that he can't move into the rental....

Thanks for the help, I'm feeling pretty run-over right now.


Dear H,

When we got married, I never for a second thought that we might fall apart. I’m so sad and disappointed that we’re where we are now.

I’m so very sorry for my part in letting our relationship get to the point that it is now. I realize that I made a lot of mistakes, and that there were so many things that I should have done better. I wish I could rewind and do it all over again knowing what I know now.

I can’t go back and change things, but I am learning a lot from those mistakes, and learning how to move forward and forgive – you, myself, and all the other pain that’s in the past. I’ve been working very hard at making positive, permanent changes in myself and my life, starting to get back to being a person who I like being. A person that I’m proud of, just as I’ve always been proud of you, my husband.

More than anything else in this world, I would like to be able to put the mistakes of the past behind us, rekindle the spark, and re-build a happy, loving, trusting relationship with you. But I can’t do that alone. And I’m not willing to settle for anything less than a good, happy, strong, loving, faithful marriage to my best friend.

I still hold some hope that, someday, that will be with you. I want to protect the last bits of hope that I still have for our marriage, and the feelings that I do still have for you. I also need to protect myself from the kind of pain that has highlighted the last few months for me. The only way I know to do that is to totally let you go, and to not have any more contact with you once you have moved out. Not as punishment or manipulation, but as the only way I know of to protect the love that I have left for you, and to spare myself from more of this pain.

I will stay in our home, and DS and DD can spend school nights there with me. I’ve attached a proposed schedule, along with a proposal for temporarily splitting the finances. It would be far too painful for me right now to negotiate these things with you in person, so if you’d like to make changes, please choose a third party intermediary. I’d suggest B, J, or BIL, but you can choose any of our relatives or mutual friends. Except for emergencies, any communication between us needs to be handled through that third party.

H, I do not want this separation. I want to be your wife. I want to hold you, talk with you, laugh and love and have fun and live with you, and share the joy of raising our family together. I want to grow old with you. I want to be the one person who always has your back. I know that we could build a wonderful marriage if we both committed to making it happen. If you decide that you want to make that commitment and have a future with me, then I would absolutely be willing to discuss it with you. Until then, please respect my wish to have no contact with you.

We had some great times together, H. You are the only man I ever truly loved, and I’m choosing now to only remember the good times we had and learn from the bad. I forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too. They say that we should learn from our mistakes, and I’m trying to do that. I just wish the lesson didn’t have to cost so much.

You forgot something:

"H, I do not want this separation. I want to be your wife. I want to hold you, talk with you, laugh and love and have fun and live with you, and share the joy of raising our family together. I want to grow old with you. I want to be the one person who always has your back. I know that we could build a wonderful marriage if we both committed to making it happen. If you decide that you want to make that commitment and have a future with me, then I would absolutely be willing to discuss it with you _______(insert the way back here...what he'll have to choose to do before you allow him to come home). Until then, please respect my wish to have no contact with you."

Also, your WH doesn't choose an intermediary...YOU do. Your choice. Designate, get acceptance and go for it. Someone who is willing to receive email, calls and letters on your behalf, and give you ONLY the bland info from them...no sentiments or tones. Period. Someone who will protect you. Aid you in keeping a level head and heart.

A friend of your marriage.

I would cut a lot of what you said in the letter, AmI...you've told him, I believe, over the last few months quite a bit of this. Do not repeat. He heard. Respect he heard. I wouldn't use a single "they say" or third-person anything...just you speaking direct, concisely, respectfully.

Period.

This Plan B letter is your progressive boundary enforcement...it is...he chooses, you choose. Show your choice. This letter (and I remember the sample here) says more of a not much of a choice...backed into it quality. That reluctance is pertinent at times, for others, but I don't see it here. This is you about you...your chosen limits and being respectful.

LA

AmI-
IMHO, I think that it's to words...I think that you need to be brief and to the point...
I see where you are repeating yourself...H will get the point...


I'm concern that you may be giving away some of your power...

Did he read your card? How short was that?

This is just my two cents...

Ami,

Don't despair.

He has not been in NC long enough to discount withdrawl and his depression is obvious and has been obvious for some time.

If you haven't taken to heart yet the concept that feelings are both fickle and fleeting the time to do so is now.

It may be 100% TRUE that this is how he feels today..but that does not mean that it will remain true or that it has been secretly true all along.

I would venture to guess that he sees leaving as yet another magic pill to his sustained unhappiness in his life he may be just entertaining another fantasy.

OW fell through..you didn't make it better..he probably just doesn't know what to do with himself.

Which could be a good thing. It could be a situation in which all doors are closing EXCEPT the one that leads to self discovery and acceptance of adult life and reality based decision making skills..alternatively he could remain stuck in the hall of doors refusing to go through that one and holding out hope that somehow there will be another option. His choice.

I wouldn't make it easy on him..sounds like you have no plans to..and I'm glad.

Get a lawyer...protect yourself from his self destructive behavior...this is just more reality knocking on his personal door...if he leaves...there will be consequences...period...it will not go according to his script ...welcome to adulthood...bend over and smile.[winks].

Meanwhile continue working on your own journey..because for certain that is the one you will be taking...whether with him or without him.

Ok, I am going to ask BIL tonight (H's brother) to be our intermediary. I trust him competely, and he's also not the slightest bit sappy or emotional, he's all about facts and keeping the conversation short. So there won't be a lot of problems with him relaying too much information either way.

He's also a pastor, and definitely a friend of marriage in general, and our marriage. Also, H trusts him -- he's his brother, so that should make him acceptable to H, too.


Here is my second pass at a PBL .... tried to take out some of the wordiness. Do you think that "willing to consider your plan for reconciliatin" is specific enough as the means to get back -- bring a plan for reconciliation?

Thanks for the help. I have called the renters (H's cousin), who have been on my side throughout all of this, and reminded them who the house belongs to, and not to worry about anything they hear from H. I can't get in to a lawyer before we leave on vacation (tomorrow), but I have talked to some really good attorney friends of mine here who are giving me some advice.

I don't have a leg to stand on with the kids, and that worries me a lot. So far he's saying that I will get to dictate how much I want to be involved with them, but that probably won't last long. Ugh. I hate that I have to lose my kids in all this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Anyway, here's my next pass at the PBL:


Dear H,

When we got married, I never for a second thought that we might fall apart. I’m so sad and disappointed that we’re where we are now. I realize that I had a part in letting our relationship get to this point, and I’m very sorry for that.

I can’t go back and change things, but I am learning a lot from those mistakes. I’ve been working very hard at making positive, permanent changes in myself and my life, starting to get back to being a person who I like being. A person that I’m proud of, just as I’ve always been proud of you, my husband.

I will respect your choice to leave. For now, I still hold some hope that we might be able to rekindle the spark, and re-build our family and marriage. I want to protect those last bits of hope that I still have, and the feelings that I do still have for you. I also need to protect myself from the kind of pain that has highlighted the last few months. The only way I know to do that is to totally let you go, and to not have any more contact with you once you have moved out. Not as punishment or manipulation, but as the only way I know of to protect the love that I have left for you, and to spare myself from more of this pain.

I will stay in our home, and DS and DD can spend nights that you’re working there with me. I’ve attached a proposed schedule, along with a proposal for temporarily splitting the finances. It would be too painful for me right now to negotiate these things with you in person, so if you’d like to make changes, please send messages to me through Bill. He has agreed to be an intermediary and can help us negotiate changes and communicate about the kids when it’s necessary. Except for emergencies, any communication between us needs to be handled through Bill.

H, I do not want this separation. And I cannot just be friends. I want to be your wife. I want to hold you, talk with you, grow old with you, laugh and love and have fun and live with you, and share the joy of raising our family together. Anything less than that is not acceptable to me.

If you decide that you want to make that commitment and have that future with me, and I'm stil here, then I would be willing to consider your plan for reconciliation. Until then, please respect my wish to have no contact with you.

We had some great times together, Rob. You are the only man I ever truly loved, and I’m choosing now to only remember the good times we had and learn from the bad. I forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too.

That sounds much better! I still have a few concerns about but I'm still learning in that department and feel LA would be better at it!

I was also wondering in regards to the kids, Are they of age where they can chose where they live? What do you mean you don't have a leg to stand on? I believe you are the step-mother...can you expand on that? Is this info you got from Lawyer friends?

They are 10 and 13. In this state, kids don't get to choose where they want to live, although a judge will take their wishes into consideration.

I have actually done a lot of research on custody in this state, and had done the research on this specific issue, too. We've had it confirmed by lawyers, too, in several instances (we have had frequent custody battles with teh bio-mom).

Step parents don't have any claim to a child after a divorce. There are statutes and regs specifically addressing it, and lots of case law, too. The only time there would be a chance is if I could prove that BOTH parents were abusive, criminally neglectful, or didn't want the kids. It's not even a "best interest" situation, where I could show that it would be in the kids' best interest to stay with me.

So, I will be relying on his good will, here. The one thing I have going in my favor is his work schedule. I'm relying on that...

You don't have to lose your kids now...at all...that would be up to him...not you...

You make the visitation schedule...you get the Mom's (interpret as lion's) share of the time...doesn't matter if it's legal or not...if uncontested, it's defacto.

Defacto.

Fiat!

You can tell I'm soooo impersonating a lawyer...and just makin' stuff up.

Believe it and make it so...

Don't do the nebulous...the kids can stay nights when you're working...make it firm...kids will stay Thurs eve-Sun morning with me and Sun afternoon through Thurs afternoon with you. He can make his work schedule comply...his choice. Add the offer...and any other nights when you're working.

Nonononono...not his plan for reconciliation...YOURS...If you want to reconcile, I'll need three months of weekly IC under your belt (oh, phrase this better...I'm tired)...lol...don't think of stuff under his belt...ack!...we'll need weekly communication exercises and no overnights until you move back in completely. I need a post-nup stating that I get half custody of the kids if we ever do split and a solid financial compensation for future infidelity.

See...what YOU want...need...to trust, love and grow again...not his. Yours.

In your corner...

LA

I guess one of the "terms" I want is for HIM to do the research and work to come up with a plan.

How about this:

"If you decide that you want to make the commitment to have that with me, then I would be willing to consider your plan for reconciliation. An adequate reconciliation plan would include weekly individual and marital counseling, weekly communication exercises, and a post-nup that gives me parenting time with the kids and solid financial compensation in the case of any future infidelity."

Is that better?
I also got specific with the kids' schedules.

One other thing .... he was going to go with us on the first day of our vacation, we were going to go whitewater rafting, then he'd come home and we'd go on.

I have been thinking that we should just leave early and leave him out of the rafting ...

But maybe that's one last good chance to do one last killer Plan A day .... anyone have any thoughts on that?

Thanks.
-AmI.

H has called me 4 times tonight -- for not much reason. He rarely calls me during a shift. And tonight it's already been 4 times.

One was to make sure I was coming home tonight and would be here for the kids. I said "I am not the one who is leaving."

One was to tell me that the kids had gotten into an argument this afernoon, but he had already taken care of it. (He was calling hours after the argument).

One was just to check in and see if the kids had done their chores.

One was just to chat ... he didn't have anything to say, was just calling to see what the kids and I were doing tonight.

It's odd. Very out of character for him.
I think he's as much of a mess about all of this as I am.

Keep Plan Aing until...put your best foot forward...Keep an open mind...best chance for excellent communication...

You can do this! I'm proud of you, I look up to you just as much as I do LA...

You're a wonderful person...you're my friend!

I think you need to maintain your home as a warm and loving place. Let him move out and get a taste of life without you.

Get out and do things and have some fun. Something tells me he will be back.

So plan A the heck out of the next few days, including the rafting, etc. ... then Plan B if and when he moves out?

Hi, AmI, just wanted to let you know that I am behind you all the way. I threw up a prayer for you tonight.

You've got it, Plan B only if he moves out! I think that you have some wonderful advise here from some great MBers.

And to top it of you've got Mighty Mouse! LOL Do you remember Mighty Mouse? HAHA

Like HL says and you brought to my attention...BE the best woman you can be...one that any man would want...and what's not to want...you have some amazing character traits...I'm sure if you asked self what's great about me...self would have a quick response...an endless list...growing each day!

Take care and I hope that you have a wonderful vacation if I don't get to talk with you again!

I saw your title and wondered why would an H want to move out. R U sure it is your H that wants to move out or a WS in turmoil? U C, a WS can't live or be part of a family. Goes against their mothership code: Down with family, up with azz! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

But the real question is, r u ready for plan B? Are your mind and heart in sync?

How dare he expect to leave the children for you to take care of. Yes, you are the one who has provided the safety and comfort of a home but in reality that's his job more than yours. I don't mean to say you s/b doing less but u s/b. He is the parent also and you shouldn't be carrying his load.

L.