Well I can't find any information anywhere on this, I hope someone can tell me. I have a Protective Order hearing on the 21st of August, my wife went to a domestic violence shelter and says I was abusing my oldest daughter, 5. I've done no such thing, and I'm going to defeat the PO. However, after that, what happens?

I mean, after it's dismissed, we'd be back to having equal parental rights, and keeping the kids away from me is actually illegal, so do I ask for them right then and there, because at that point I have legal right to see them.

She's thrown another wrench at me, I think the shelter made her report the "abuse" to DHS, which is the Department of Human Services. I think she slit her own throat with this one. The more lies she tells, the more likely she'll trip up. I'm pretty sure she brought the DHS worker to the house the other day while I was at work. I'm not exactly sure why, but I know someone was there, they left my poor cats locked up in the bathroom! They were still there when I got home at midnight!! That's animal abuse!!

I don't want a divorce, my wife needs serious mental help. But I want the kids back ASAP.

Study up on Parental Alienation Syndrome - and find an attorney who knows how and when to use this.

omg, thank you so much! This describes my wife alot.

Your posts are quick to dismiss abuse allegations by your wife even in past history. Are you so sure it's all fabricated?

She may well have embellished on the truth some. Regardless, what are you doing to contribute to the demise of the marriage.


This statement from one of your previous posts would seem to infer that you really don't have the best interest of the marriage at heart. It shows very little respect for your wife IMO and adds fuel to her abuse allegation. "Oh by the way, remember 3 years ago....I lied!" Nice jab! Forgive my twist on your words, but that's how I interpret them. I see this as a form of verbal/emotional abuse.

Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss her and look deep inside yourself and what YOU could be doing to destroy your marriage.

One thing I can tell you about the AWARE shelters and DHS is that they are not on your side, and they may say they are on your wifes side but really are not they are out for themselves and want to secure their funding. AWARE is notoriously against men in general and will run with any allegations of abuse, and they work directly with DHS who have counselors that can be good but quite a few are men haters or just plain bitter cold people. I know my ex wife went this route and lied about most everything while her and her boyfriend were the ones that were abusing my daughter!!! I contacted AWARE and DHS and told them that I would go public on them and report it to every major news agency and take them to court for supporting and representing abusers of a small child. I had the police reports and court records to prove what I was stating and they finally backed off but it wasn't easy until I threatened them and got a lawyer and went to court.

In the end I ended up getting sole legal custody of my daughter after going to court for over three years!!! AWARE and DHS are not about helping families they are about breaking them apart because that is how they get their funding. Especially if they can tag children as having some form of mental disorder due to abuse. This allows them to give your children drugs that you may or may not approve of and also allows them to take your children into custody because they can say that the parents cannot adequately provide for the childs medical needs and the child needs to institutionalized, which can lead to foster homes and adoption both of which they get more funding for. Check out these sites for more info

http://www.fightcps.com/news/2003_12_14_archive.html

http://www.childprotectionreform.org/defense/yourself/vocal_advice.htm

http://www.familyrightsassociation.com/

DHS and AWARE are broken systems. Be careful and don't think just because you are innocent you have nothing to hide these people will fabricate and misconstrue everything and anything they can because reported abuse has two sides. One is civil and one is criminal. The civil side is the nightmare because it is up to you to disprove any allegations against you and they will fabricate allegations because they are not held accountable to prove them, the criminal side they have to prove before they can charge you. Civil cases can completely devastate children and parents alike and can go on for years even if the allegations are completely untrue. I am sure that someone told your wife to go to AWARE and report abuse so it got this process starting, it is a typical tactic I have seen from women who want out of a marriage and want everything including the children. If I were you I would keep as far away from these people as possible until you retain a good lawyer.

This is just the beginning of your nightmare and it is very serious it isn't just some protection order you are fighting now, I would get a lawyer now if I were you... Good luck.

M

Thanks. I've had a lawyer, but I'm switching because she won't return my calls and seems to just let my wife run the show, or rather, the shelter advisors.

I went to the PO hearing, and it was granted. There was no evidence, my wife did not bring any pictures, she says there were pictures, but she could not print them out, which is bull. What she is saying is that the prior Friday to her leaving, I spanked(beat) my daughter so hard on her behind that there are marks and bruises that lasted til she went to the shelter on Monday. First, I gave my daughter one swat on the butt that day, but it wasn't Friday, it was Thursday, she's already screwing up, but my lawyers have both said that's inconsequential. I understand that the judge has to error on the side of the kids, but I'm still very disappointed.

So these bruises were supposed to have lasted all weekend, I hit her so hard, through jeans, mind you. Where she's really screwed up is that on Friday, my mother came and picked up the girls and took them to her farm for the weekend til Sunday. She bathed them that weekend and saw no bruises. Sunday, we had a family dinner at my father's house, and my sister helped my daughter go to the bathroom, and saw no bruises. I also have over 10 witnesses to how my daughter was acting around me, that she was in no pain on her rear end, played soccer, sat down on the floor and played a board game, ran after the ice cream man, etc.

To top that all off, Sunday night, my wife tried to set me up. We got home after going to Wal Mart and I went back out to the car to get something. I came back in and my wife was pissed, really angry. She said "Go spank Ashley!" I said why? She said "Because she threw a brat attack!" That is a bare butt spanking violation in our house so I went to my daughter's room, and I had her come to me and I got down on my knees, pulled down her pants and gave her three swats on the butt. I haven't seen the pictures, but before I did so, there were no bruises, and I didn't spank her hard enough to cause any. She also did not bring this incident up in court, and is trying to say the bruises are all from four days prior. I believe she did it so that my daughter would remember that yes, daddy did spank her before they left. She's probably too scared to tell anyone that mommy also scared her, but DHS won't talk to me, even though they keep sending me letters saying they do.

So I'm now thinking after or before my wife went to the shelter, she has beat my daughter to the point that things show up on pictures. She didn't get a medical professional to look at them, just had a DHS worker see them. My new lawyer thinks that will count in my favor, as she should have been more concerned with her welfare instead of how soon she could get her story corroborated.

I also found out from my sister that my wife had told her that her grandfather had been verbally, emotionally and physically abusive to her when she was living with him. She never told me about the physical. She also said that my wife had told her that she had been raped by one of her uncles. She had never ever told me about this, but I had suspected she was the survivor of some sort of sexual abuse. I never brought it up, however.

I'm in the process of seeing an Anger Management counselor who is going to evaluate me and test me on how likely I am to commit Domestic Violence and abuse. He is also a Forensic Examiner, so I believe he will be able to look at any photos of my daughter and be able to tell how recent the bruises or marks are.

I seem to have a mountain of inconsequential and small corroborating evidence. I have witnesses that are both family and not family that can attest to my daughter's well being, and that I have never beat my children. We're just not sure it's enough to get sole custody in my Temporary Order hearing that is coming up.

My wife is also dragging her feet on the court ordered visitation. I'm to have supervised visitation with my parents. She is saying I can only have them 10-1pm on Sat and Sun because she's relying on the shelter for transportation and that's all the time they have. That's complete BS, but my lawyer just told me there's nothing we can do. My new lawyer,however, suggested I put forth that we'll pay for a taxi to take her and the girls to the drop off point to where my family will pick them up. But my current laywer isn't returning my calls and isn't calling me to tell me my wife called or anything. My new lawyer says it looks bad on my wife that she is doing this. I hope all of this adds up to me getting my kids.

I wouldn't count on getting your children any time soon, you will not get any type of custody now that a PO is against you and there is an ongoing investigation against you. The PO's are pretty much always granted and very little evidence is required. I also would keep my mouth shut about anything you did or didn't do and advise family to do the same. Anything said can be misconstrued into something it isn't and it definately won't be in your favor.

This Forensic Examiner is he someone appointed by DHS or the court? If this guy is someone that the State or the court mandated I would suggest obtaining your own anger management counselor, because this guy works for them not you and is probing for things he can use against you.

As far as having evidence from your family, how DHS will look at this case is that your family is biased because they don't believe your daughter and wife's allegations of abuse and will count them as hostile witnesses. DHS doesn't want to know your side of the story all they want to do is get information to make a case against you. Remember there are two parts of this case, criminal and civil. They most likely will use the civil case to their advantage so they don't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt anything and can use even false information against you and they are the ones investigating so whatever evidence you give them they can use or ignore as they wish, it is ultimately the Judge in the case that you have to persuade not them.

A word of advice in disciplining your children. You did what your wife told you and spanked your daughter without even knowing she did anything wrong. This could be why your daughter is angry with you now, and your ex may be playing on this as you suggest and putting you in a very bad light and I am sure she is denying that she told you to spank your daughter. I would never spank my child only knowing what my wife told me, I would say to the wife why didn't you do something about it, she is just as much responsible for discipline in the household as you are, it makes you out to be the bad guy. I agree with disciplining children but I don't think spankings are necessary past the age of four, only in very rare occassions when the child could either hurt themselves or someone else and directly defied instructions to do something otherwise, so that they know they did something extremely wrong and explain it to them afterward and let them know you love them by hugging them. Even when children are smaller spanking is not necessary most of the time, and you definately do not need to give bare but spankings. Spankings should be pretty much the last resort, and not used as the primary way you discipline. There are many ways to discipline your children without spankings you just need to be consistent and not allow them to get away with things. I see where too many parents try to negotiate with their children and the children defy them over and over and the parents end up spanking them while they are angry which does lead to abuse. It takes more effort to watch your children but the more your children know you are watching them and they know the boundaries the less likely they will do something they are not supposed to do, and you don't have to spank them at all.

The shelter will make it difficult for you to have any visitation in the hopes that you will give up, and they will use this to say that you just don't really care about your children because you don't contact them. They may choose to withhold visitation due to some therapist suggesting that it isn't in the best interest of your children to see you at this time due to the PO and alleged abuse. They will use their case plan against you too, I wouldn't do anything on the case plan that they want you to because I can almost guarantee they have it worded so if you do it appears as if you are admitting guilt. Don't be fooled when they call you and act like they want to be your buddy and help you, this is not what they really are doing, they use this friendliness in hopes you will give them information they can use against you. Say as little as possible to them and if they start probing tell them to contact your lawyer.

In my opinion this doesn't look good for you and you most likely may end up having criminal child abuse charges brought against you along with the DHS civil case, and a divorce on top of it, and your wife may also eventually be deemed unfit it sounds like so you may end up having your children placed in the care of the State, which is a real nightmare. Don't be suprised if other allegations arise out of the blue too. Right now you have to worry about you, and I suggest staying somewhere where you feel supported and safe like your parents place. Don't go out and do anything irrational and stay under the radar, don't go to the bars etc.., they may have someone watching you that you are not aware of. I know you are giving details about this because you feel you are innocent but talking about it can and will hurt you if you talk to the wrong people. Most of all pray about the situation.

You are in a tough spot, no doubt about it. Hang in there, and God bless.

M

When a child is bruised from spanking, the forensic team can tell several things (even from a photo) that you may be surprised by, including:
- the size of the hand that spanked
- how long ago the spanking happened
- whether this is a new bruise on top of an older one

Also, how your 5 year old relates to you after an (alleged) beating is meaningless. Some children cower in fear, others are so terrified that they try to keep anyone from knowing and act quite normal. The fact that she acted normally and even ran after the ice cream man proves nothing.

If you are innocent, you should have nothing to worry about from the photos. However, your emails are somewhat self-damning, and can now be used to prove your blatent extreme hostility and desire to make your wife look bad publicly...It is not a good move to slander her, and there is not a chance that doing so will make you look innocent. It only makes you seem MUCH more likely to have done the beating. The fact that there is no apparent tenderness or compassion for the daughter looks very bad, too. You come across as being more concerned with yourself than your daughter (or your wife).

Even if you delete everything you've written here and destroy your computer, every single other member of MB has a copy on their computer's hard drive, so you will likely just have to face the music on this one. It's never a good idea to verbally attack another person, ESPECIALLY not in a written, recorded public forum.

None of us has any way to know whether you are a child beater or not, so our opinions about it are meaningless. However, you might note that spanking a child after pulling down her pants is illegal in many places, on its own, whether or not you left bruises. In the end, nobody will care that your wife asked you to spank her; you are responsible for pulling down a little girl's pants to hit her...again, not looking good for you. The vast majority of people are unsupportive of physical violence against children, whether you call it "spanking" on a bare bottom, or "beating."

Before you launch an attack on me, note that I have NOT told you my personal opinion about any of this, just the facts that I know relate to your situation. You have lost control in several ways that are in no way your wife's or your daughter's fault, and the only way to salvage your situation is to work on your self-control and try to respond with a great deal more thoughtfulness, caring, and compassion.

Some states allow for lie detector tests to be used in cases where claims of physical or sexual abuse against a child have been made. You lawyer may know something about this?

hopeandpray,

Lie detector tests are useless. They are not admissable in court and they do not determine if someone is telling the truth or not. Actually people who are very good at lying and do not have any problem with lying usually can pass them. People who are conscienscious and want to tell the truth are more apt to fail them because they get nervous. All they do is detect heartrate, blood pressure and sweat, which your heart rate will rise and you will perspire more if you are nervous especially if the questions raised are meant to confuse or get an emotional response. Lie detectors are nothing more than interogation tools that investigators like to tell the people they use them on are full proof and usually scares the guilty into confessing, in which any confession is admissable in court. Results of a polygraph are all based on one persons opinion of the test which is the person administering the polygraph.

The supreme court ruled against their use because a USAF airmen went AWOL and tested positive for Meth. He passed a polygraph and wanted to use it as evidence of his innocence. The physical evidence of the drug test determined otherwise which lead the Supreme Court to continue their ban in court and furthers the fact that they are completely unreliable and do not determine whether or not someone is truthful or lying.
http://www.polygraph.org/Browser%20Files/Supreme%20Court.htm

M