Hi, I am like so many others. I have been lurking for months getting a lot of good ideas. I feel it is finally time to post and get advise.
I have been married 18 years. I noticed behaviors in my wife that made me suspect things were not right. I finally put spyware on our computer and found that she was at the begginings of an affair. It was an EA but was very close to progressing further. He was an old high school friend that she reconnected with prior to attending her first high school reunion.
I have heard most of the things that they say. She should have left me years ago. She emotionally divorced me...this from her IC she started to see immediatley after discovery. She does not have the feelings, etc.
After about two weeks of agony, I found this site and went into plan A. I have read His Needs, Her Needs, and Surviving an Affair.
She minimizes the affair relationship.She correts me if I call it an affair. She tells me that she does not contact him. He does live about 65 miles away. Yet, she continued to talk about separation....with the support from her IC. She finally rented a house, then decided not to spearate, then later rented it again. She went into a depression. Cried alot. We have two teenage boys and she has always been a wonderful mother. She finally decided that she was going to do it. She needed to work on herself. She was sexually abused by her father as a young teenager. She is a beautiful woman at 44 but her self esteem is greatly damaged by the abuse. This has turned her into a "pleaser". Unfortuneatly the other man had a recent divorce and a bout with cancer. This was a draw for her too, to take care of someone. Sexual abuse can really screw up a persons ability for intimacy.
I had already helped her move some furniture to her new house, then she stalled, then decided to move again! The day she made a list of the things she would need, she tore it up and decided to stay for two months....not sure where that time frame came from. Immediately the depression started lifting. She would state that she felt like she was coming to life again, that she was getting stronger. This has been almost two weeks.... Discovery was 5-17-06, to put some time frame to this.
We are getting along well, no love busting on my part and I am working hard on improving meeting her needs. She still does not have any "feelings" of love for me. She will not say that she loves me in return. She does return hugs, and occasionally give me a little kiss on the cheek when saying goodbuy. So the rented house sits there, a constant threat to separation.
Her grandmother passed away a few days ago. In my diligent montoring, I found a 1 minute cell call to the other man the day she found out. She probably got his voice mail. This was a major setback for me. I have not told her of it. I am trying to see if anything continues. She has stated so many times that he was just a dear friend and how embarrased they both are about it. She had never been attracted to him before. Sometimes I tend to believe her, but a lot of her statements and actions make me think it is fog talk.
I am not sure what advice I am looking for. It has been three months of ******. Maybe just encouragement, wishing i knew what the future would hold. etc.

Thanks to all who post here, your stories have helped me understand so much.

Hi rob, welcome to MB. That IC is a red flag! There are many so called counselors that are not pro marriage and your W's IC sounds like one of them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Emotinal affair is what it is called and it is just as damaging to a marriage as a physical affair. How do you know for sure she is not still in contact with the OM? Have you checked cell phone records or put spyware on your computer? A recorder in her car? She sounds like a foggy wayward to me.

Have you tried calling the Harley's for counseling? have the two of you been to MC? What is her plans for your sons if she moved out?

I am very sorry for you having to be here.

BTW, 65 miles is not very far. My H's first OW lived 400 miles away but they managed to turn it from EA to PA.

Hi Faithful,

I agree, I think her IC is pro her. Not the marriage or the family. In discussions with her I found out he has one child from his first marriage.So he has never raised a family. She has related that he says that the kids will be Ok etc. I cannot do anything about it.
I do not know for sure that she is not in contact. I check our home computer. She barely touches it after I installed the spyware. That is how I caught her. I was able to read most of the emails so I knew just where they were at.I checked the cell records at that time and could see the many calls. Those disappeared after that.
I still check the cell phone online. When she was going to separate, she purchased a new cell phone. She has sense taken it back after she decided not to leave. I have not been able to see that bill, so i really don't know. I recently found out that she got a P.O. box a few months ago.That might have been for the house...I really can't tell.
I know 65 miles is not all that far, but it does make it a bit more difficult. Sense she decided not to separate for two months, her spirits are so much better. I really thought she was spiraling into a clinical depression prior to that decision. Several nights in a row she would break down crying. I would comfort her in bed, listening and assuring her. She talked about dying inside and wishing the pain would go away. I had never seen her like that in 18 years.
What makes it difficult is her abuse by her father. I have a hard time knowing what is attributed to that and what is attributed to the EA.
Thanks for the advise. If anyone has had similar experiences I would love to hear them.
Thanks

Oh and regarding the kids, at first it was she would have them visit, have lunches with them etc. Then during a not going to separate time, she talked to the boys and let them know we were having trouble, on the advice of her IC. She told them that she would never leave them, they might split time if we did separate. Our youngest..15, told her he would stay with her, our 17 year old told her he would just move out on his on. I think that shocked her.

Her feeling will come back when there is no contact with the other man. That is guaranteed.

I would begin in Plan A, and do it for about 6 months. Be sure to spend 15 hours a week doing fun things together, WITHOUT your sons.

If there is anything that she complained about BEFORE the affair, start working on changing it.

Stick with us, and we will help you through this.

How do you know this?

When I suspected something was wrong, i installed spyware on our computer called Big Brother. I was able to read all of thier emails. He told her all about his cancer, I think it was lymphomia or something rather.
Being sexually abused as a child, she became a "pleaser". Her self worth is found in helping others. This is also one of our relationship issues. She will submit to doing things even if she doesn't want to, because she never wants anyone not to like her. She later will be angry and resentful for whatever it was. You would not even know what you did. Her feelings are very easily hurt. I thought she was hyper-sensitive. All these issues are a direct result from the abuse.
On the other hand i know that I was not meeting her needs of conversation and admiration. I am very active at this now. I think I have concluded that conversation is her strongest need. I have been able to spend a good amount of time with this.
I think I am rambling a little now. So much has happened in the last three months. Wished I started posting when I first came on board. It is theraputic!

It is therapeutic. Also we can help you avoid false recoveries.

She does need to get some IC counseling, and with a woman who specializes in childhood sex abuse. Many women never seek help for it, and it tends to cause problems throughout their lives.

Meet her needs - there is a questionnaire here she might be willing to fill out. Also be sure to do the 15 hours a week thing. That brings back intimacy.

and...


And, I presume, he described his divorce and how his XW was a monster, etc.

So, you believe this?

Be very wary of anything a man secretly communicating with a married woman will say.

You'd be smart to find him and see what the real story is - for the sake of your marriage and your wife's safety.

JMHO

WAT

Oh yea,

I read one email where he was telling my wife that even his father was saying he did not know what a good marraige was. My wife told me that his x would go out every Friday and not let him know where she was. But the best was how he was scared for his life, that he thought she would kill him and had a knife under the bed.
We have not had any discussions about this in quite some time.I do wonder if she is in recovery. She went through some major depression and once she decided not to separate (for now) her depression lifted almost immediately.She occasionaly will make a statement that sounds like a long term plan to stay, but I take most of that stuff with a grain of salt.

I do not know how to get the real story on this guy. I found a record of his divorce through online court docs'. But it really did not have any details. Any suggestions?

She returns to work today after being off for 4 years. I do not know how that will effect her.This is by her choice. She has several good girlfriends there. This does help her have financial independence. But it also gives her access to email that I cannot monitor.

Continuing to meet her needs, taking care of myself, the boys, and the home.

Send her some flowers at the workplace - if the setting is appropriate, e.g., an office. The flowers should be from you and your sons. "To the most important woman in the world to three men."

In addition to being a good Plan A thing to do, this will establish a "fact" that she has a loving husband and family for her co-workers to see.

WAT

Great advice Wat. One step ahead of you. She received the flowers I set up for delivery last week and already called to thank me. She is cramping pretty bad right now. She actually called before the flowers to tell me she was sorry for being cranky this morning. She told me she realized she was being the same to her co-workers. Of course I told her I understood and it was all right.
Appreciate the advice!

Can anyone give me clues to look for regarding a true recovery versus a false recovery?
I might be thinking of withdrawal. I think my WW went through withdrawal, but she seems a little more distant the last few days.... could be many issues, but could be renewed contact.... I cannot be sure and I think paranoia is probably pretty common for the BS at this stage...
Thanks

IMHO, The biggest indicators of false recovery are lack of transparancy and failure to follow through with committments.

If they are being dishonest about anything its not a good sign. Don't get me wrong, a little reluctance to disclose the full details of the A is pretty standard. But if they aren't being an open book or your still catching them in lies, probably a false recovery.

The second indicator is similar. I'm not saying if they said they would take out the grabage and they forget. I mean things like they said they would fill out the EN questionaire tommorrow night and then change their mind or forget to do it.

In my unfortunate experience with false recoveries, these have been the two biggest indicators.

I guess I am just in a weird place. Two weeks ago she was going to move out, but decided to give it two months. I am not sure what that means. The positive is that it did take a lot of stress off of me. She is still here and I can continue to plan A and meet her needs.
On the other side, I don't feel I can demand anything at all. From D day she claims not to have any contact. She tells me her IC agrees that that is good etc. I have let her know that there is not room for three of us. She agrees. So unless I have hard evidence, I don't bring it up anymore.I have not asked her to do the emotional needs questionaire. I doubt she would. She is not interested in meeting any of my needs at this time. I pretty much know her needs.
She has said a few times she is "trying real hard". But I don't know what that means. She is looking for the "feelings" to come back. If it is the feelings like "falling in love", I can't see that happening like you get with a new relationship...ie affair. 18 years and a lot of water under the bridge makes it hard to get the giddy new love feelings again. Every thing I read discusses Love as actions, committments, doing, etc.
When I do tell her I love her, she always says "thank you", or sometimes " I don't know why".
I just feel that all I can do is Plan A and wait to see what she does. Paranoia makes me worry about contact. Really hate to go through the withdrawal and the start of recovery again! Hoping for the best.
Thanks in advnce for any encouragement or advise.

I don't see anywhere here that she wrote a no contact letter. Have you asked her to do this? That can tell you a lot about whether you should have concerns.

Your very near to D-Day, so don't get to wrapped in how she treats you. If she really is NC, then things will improve.

As far as what you can demand. Well yeah, you can't demand anything, but you can ask. The best approach I have seen for this is to sort of reverse the request. Set up a session with SH. After the session, tell your F/WW "hey, I talk to this MC and I think a lot of what he says I should do to make myself a better H sounds spot on. Would you be willing to talk to him. I really value your opinion and just want to know if you think what he says is correct".

Finally, I agree big time with other posters on IC. Many are very much uneducated on the nature of A's.

You are right. I have not asked her to write a no contact letter. I will have to think about how to approach that. The last conversation we had about that was 6 weeks back. She let me know then that he as a good friend and she wanted to be able to send him birthday cards and if his cancer returned she wanted to help him.
Her attachment came in high school with this guy. She said that he was the only one she could talk to about her abuse by her father. One time she told me he might have saved her life back then. The next time she said he did save her life. It was just a freindship even in High School.

Yesterday was her first day back at work. Last night she told me she got very sad at work and wanted to cry. I asked why and she said she didn;t know. She said she held it together and by the time she got home she was OK.
Now this morning as my 17 year old was leaving for school, he told me that she took him to the house she rented last night. I had to go out to dinner with suppliers from out of the country. The house is close to the High School and she told him that he and his freinds could eat lunch there. She told him that she was getting a refridgerator, but not a washer and dryer. He said she kept saying "sense we are paying for it".
She did not mention this little excursion to me.
This morning after the alarm went off and during sleep being hit three times, we stayed in bed and held hands. Nice good hug as she left for work.
I know I should not try and read to much into anything, but that is just to difficult to not do. Always looking for actions and signs to see which way the wind is blowing.

Wow, she's in deep.

I recommend you handle this as an affair in progress - not withdrawal. Not only in progress, but advancing.

Any intention she currently has to have NC with OM will very likely be short lived - if she has any at all.

What do your sons know of the affair?

What is the reason they've been given for her rented house?

Also -
Who is "we"?

You're not helping to pay for it, are you?

WAT

Worth, I cannot find any hard evidence of continueing contact, but I am suspicious as well.
My Sons do not know anything about it. The Sexual abuse she suffered really complicates everything. We told the boys basically that all marriages have problems and we have ours. Sometimes spending some time apart can be helpful. I did not want to even let them know anything was wrong unless the separation was for sure. But her IC recommended to her that the kids be aware that we have problems.
An adult survivor of sexual abuse has a tendancy to feel controlled. I have never seen myself as a controlling person and thought that I gave her great freedom, supported her is so many of her goals. But they will feel control even if it is not there. This has been one of the many reasons I heard for separation, the one the IC seems to be supporting. She needs to gain a feeling of independence to be healty. (the privacy issue has been fading) Reading up on adult survivors of sexual abuse, I know that this really is a legit issue. But I still think the real reason is the affair....sucks having a legit excuse that you can't fight without being insensitive. She seems to blame all the issues on the abuse. What can you say? Alot of it may be true....
I do not think her IC understands affairs at all and cannot see through the fog talk.
We have several checking accounts. One is joint, and the other is hers alone. This was done many years ago so we could have some financial freedoms. I pay all bills, she pays food and clothing. What is left over is descretionary. So she has money in her account, of course it came from me as she has not worked much the last four years. Now she has her own job which is decent paying.

I sent he a text message on the way to work this morning telling her I hoped she had a better day. She called me and we talked about the kids for a minute, then I mentioned the son telling me about the rent house. She told me the same thing, that it was something to get some use out of it...it is a year lease. Buying a refrigerator would be so he could keep pop and stuff for his lunches. I told her that he said her propbaly would not eat there. She told me that he again said he would not live there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Then she asked me about the book his needs her needs. She knows I have it and had been reading it. She asked if I thought ot could help her. I let her know that it helped me undertsand how we got to where we were and if we wanted to rebuild our marriage it would help. She seems interested in reading it.
She has already called me twice in the first hour of work. She was reading some stuff on setting up a Roth IRA for the boys. We discussed that for a while. She thanked me again for the flowers I sent to her work and a gold rope ring I gave her a few days ago (I have always given her jewelry, she has tons of it now). Then she told me again that she was trying real hard.....I will say the holding my hands this morning and the hugs were the most physical return of affection I have felt from her in a long while.
Mixed mixed signals. Has anyone had thier WW tell them they are "trying real hard"? No ILY's or SF etc.

Not when you're having marital problems, IMHO.

Her history of abuse may be a player here. Maybe not. It's plausible. But it's not a license to have an affair. Don't get hng up on potential causes other than the ones you can address - your contributions to the poor marital environment. Any latent issues she has, stemming from the abuse or others, have to be dealt with post-affair.

By all means, share HNHN with her, since she asked. Before giving it to her, print out an EN questionaire and stick it in the book. I think there's one printed in the book, but print a separate one to emphasize its existance and to make it easier for her to noodle on if she feels inclined. Do not force this.

The best advice I have for you is to figure out a way to dump that IC. Perhaps in conjunction with giving her HNHN, you should make an appointment with one of the MB counselors for yourself, with intentions to ultimately replace her IC with an MBer.

I think you ought to be honest with your sons. You've described you are having "problems." What do you think they think this means? Would you rather them imagine what it is? She wants to have a sex change operation? She has a terminal illness? She's planning a divorce? Yes, this is tough. They are old enough to understand, IMHO. You can set a terrific example for them by revealing the truth, and by standing by your marriage and family nonetheless. Dispell the popular notion that infidelity = divorce.

JMHO

WAT