The "exposure" and "confrontation" part of Plan A is for adults and adult children, but not underage children. There isn't a child psychologist, therapist, or marriage counselor (including Harley!) that would recommend that children (under the age of 18) be a part of any planned "exposure" or confrontation process of an affair (Plan A).

Not everything is planned of course....and eventually....often even children will do their own forms of exposure and confrontation....but it should not be at the encouragement or design of a BS. The fact that a fifteen year old CAN be a VERY powerful ally against an affair is not in dispute....he/she most certainly can be!! The question is "should" they be? How healthy is it for them? The argument can be raised that affairs aren't healthy for them either....TRUE! that's indisputable too...but that still doesn't mean they need extra involvement in the explosiveness created by a standard BS exposure and confrontation.

Doctors and therapists don't recommend lying to children either. They recommend HONESTY....so there are bound to be questions and other times when the truth about an affair is bound to come out.....and it should be done in an age appropriate, natural, and compassionate way. Affairs are almost impossible to hide....even small children often figure things out and ask questions....and that's the proper way to let them know the gist...but not the details. Be honest to your children (don't protect the secrecy of the affair), but confrontation and exposure (as parts of Plan A and the assault on an affair) are for adults, not children. They already hear/see too much....they don't need more. They will see your pain (and that's okay) but shouldn't also shoulder your pain....save the rantings, rages, and adult details and names outside of their hearing. What they need is ONE parent at least who is willing to help them remain children as long as possible.

Children confront their feelings differently than adults....verbal and non-verbal. But many, just act out in self destructive ways instead...in other parts of their lives (or worse, privately) They blame themselves. They harm themselves. They lash out. This part of Plan A (exposure and confrontation) has the greatest potential for two things....sucesss and explosions. If it works...then the kids get the benefit of the success...but they can do without being around or being involved in the adult anger and explosiveness it often creates. No matter how grown up they seem....they are not finished developing....not even teenagers!

When the inevitable questions arise...please make it clear to your son/daughter that the WS loves him/her even though it is not obvious by their actions, and that while you don't approve of what the WS is doing....you will do everything possible to save the marriage...and that he/she (DS/DD) will always have <two> parents.

The opportunity will arise for truth in the form of a question or statement: "Mommy why are you crying?" "Why won't daddy come home?" "Why is mommy always with Mr. X?" "I don't like mom's friend XXX." Those are the times to consider the age of your child, give an honest answer and help them sort through the feelings they cause....and how to talk about it to the WS if they want to.

Yes, an affair affects children....it turns their lives upside down and can easily be the downfall of their family. Children who are underage, have underveloped brains and emotional skills, and since they will be the subjects of custody disputes should a divorce occur....don't need details...they just need responsible honesty and caring from the adults they depend on when they're confused and asking questions. Exposure with children translates to honesty/clarity when they are curious....not the planned exposure that is meant for adults (and adult children) who might intervene to save the marriage. While it might seem very helpful to have a 6 year old calling someone a "wh*re"...it harms the 6 year old!

One of the true tragedies of infidelity and divorce is that the focus is taken away from childhood, and instead of worrying about normal things like soccer games or the cute guy in Math class...the child's world is filled with adult worries, words and chaos. That's the fault of the wayward spouse....but the responsibility of children is for all of us. We can't always protect our children from our own faults or the mistakes of a WS....all we can do is answer their questions honestly and compassionately and help them understand that this isn't about something they did wrong or because their parents don't love them. Children internalize what they don't understand...sometimes in awful ways.

Once your child DOES know the truth (and most will eventually know)....help them frame their feelings to the WS in a way that keeps their relationship intact if possible. Research is clear....the only thing worse than the effect of divorce on children....is the affect of divorce on children who no longer see <one> of their parents. Adults need to sort out the adult issues. Just because adult issues affect the children doesn't mean the children should be involved in the battle! Sometimes we have to tell our children things no child should ever have to hear....but those things are NOT part of the MB designed war against adultery....children are always the innocent victims. We don't save them from victimhood either by making them powerful young soldiers in the fight....all that does is further victimize them....further compromise their childhood.

While I agree that younger children should not be part of Plan A, they should not be lied to or prevented from talking about their feelings. They should be encouraged and supported in speaking to their parents about their feelings. It is a good thing for a WS to see and hear the effect of their affair on their child.

Harley OFTEN speaks of the benefits of exposing the affair to children and believes that exposure to the children is as important as exposure to the BS. He talks about his discovery of his own fathers affair as one of the most POSITIVE lessons he ever experienced in his life. He was able to see the destruction and also watch his parents put back together their marriage.

For me personally, my mother's LACK of honesty about my father's affairs caused enormous damage. As a little girl as young as FOUR, I could comprehend that something was very WRONG. However, her failure to validate those feelings of right and wrong caused me to doubt my instincts about right and wrong. I came to the conclusion that I must be a very dumb girl but what seemed obvious to me [affairs are WRONG] was not obvious to adults. As a result, I grew up very morally confused.

Consequently, I think that children who are exposed to affairs should be GUIDED through the trauma by a caring, loving adult, in an age appropriate manner. They desperately NEED clear moral guidance in a such a traumatic situation. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies.

DS's child psychologist will beg to differ with you. He is an internationally known CP.

He recommends all children above the age of reason to have complete age appropriate truth about a parent’s adultery. In particular they are to be given full age appropriate answers to any questions about the affair.

He maintains it is the only way for them to form their ideals and start building their values.

An interesting and related aside: Children of alcoholics invariably grow up promising themselves and anyone who will listen they will never marry an alcoholic person.

But the odds are against them. They marry dear old alcoholic (or other addiction) dad or mom with amazing predictability.

How do you suppose a similar cycle of marrying (or becoming) dear old philandering dad or mom might be broken?

Perhaps with the truth? The truth from the get go? Raised on truth from an early age?

DS gets the whole age appropriate truth, period. His anger at his mom was definily a fog buster, BTW. But it needed to be dealt with for his sake using the truth about affairs.

With prayers,

This is exactly what Dr. Harley says on his radio show. He believes that this very PROFOUND, life changing lesson prevented him from ever committing adultery. He believes that it was the TRUTH about the affair that broke the cycle of adultery in his family and said "as you can see, I have NEVER committed adultery." He attributes that to being told the TRUTH.


I never knew my parents were "alcoholics" until I was all grown up. I thought that EVERYONE lived like that. The word "alcoholic" was never spoken in my presence as far as I recall. I thought that everyone's parents were like that. And I became an alcholic myself.

I posted that I believe in age appropriate honesty about infidelity....so I'm confused about your posts. The majority of the post was about how to be honest about infidelity....however, I disagree with children being part of the planned targets for an exposure process like we use in Plan A. It should happen as a different kind of honesty process. How do y'all feel about that?

I tend to agree with Aph and ML.

While I definitely agree that a child should never be *used* as a tool..I also think that there is damage done aplently with such statements as "you still have two parents" [when this is demonstrably not true] and "WS loves you" [when in fact the WS has not only abandoned but rejected/abused the child for months leading up to that event].

I think the truth in age appropriate delivery is the best answer and don't make any claims that you can't deliver results on.

I am confused about what you are saying, starfish, so maybe you could clarify. "Honesty" is the same thing as exposure. There is no practical difference since it is the SAME THING. "Exposure" is telling someone about the affair. "Exposure" *IS* "honesty."

Granted, the purpose of exposure to an OMW and exposure to a child will be different, it shouldn't preclude telling the child. So, I am not clear on your meaning.

"I disagree with children being part of the planned targets for an exposure process like we use in Plan A."

I fail to see a difference. If age appropriate, it's a logical part of exposure. I agree time and place and method is always important, but that’s true even with OP's spouse.

And sugar coating is disingenuous, even with children. And especially with teens.

WW is still your mother – I said that.

WW loves you – I could not say it. She left him collapsed and crying in the doorway when she moved out expecting OM to join her. And DS knew she didn’t instinctively. No way would I add yet another lie to his burden. He would figure it out eventually if I had, and it would all become even worse. It would have had the same long term effects on him as the myriad of WW lies “to spare my feelings” has on me.

And lies of omission are just as bad.

So I told him age appropriate why and what. And I enlisted a CP to help continue the "exposure" as you call it to him.

Kids are much smarter than you seem to imply with your post.

I think Aph and ML are essentially saying the exact same thing I am. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> So far, no one is supporting the children being part of the Plan A "exposure process"....just that the BS be honest to the children. That's the same thing I'm saying.

noodle....WSs still love their children....in fact most of them still love their spouses....even though they don't act like it.....and kids need to hear that. BSs aren't the only ones who need hope and the willingness to forgive. And they do have <two> parents....even if one is fogged....just not necessarily two <good> ones. If a WS truly abandons his children....and sometimes it does happen....those children need double the love and understanding, many times counseling....to help them cope with those feelings.

hmmmmmmmmm

I disagree SF..

Their behavior is distinctly unloving..abandonment being the epitome of that distinction.

Tell a child that they have two parents..but one of them isn't available except when they feel like it..maybe every few years? That isn't a parent it's a cell donation.

What would that claim tell a child about love?

I love you..and will be here for you..committed to your well being etc etc..

WS loves you and will leave you huddled on the ground crying and begging unavailable to you for a period of however long they feel like yadda yadda yadda.

What does love mean? That isn't love. I'm not buying that definition and I'm not selling it to a child.

I agree with Aph that such claims add to a childs burden rather than detract from it.

When and if the WS returns to the family or the role of parent..they can answer for their actions..but probably the collateral damage is unavoidable.

I don't see how honesty could NOT result in plan A exposure..if the child knows exposure has occurred..so we seem to be missing each other on that issue.

ML, exposure as we use it here on MB is not the same thing as honesty to children about an affair. Exposure is an affair ending tool (an MB process that is part of Plan A) that we use to encourage other people to put pressure on the affair. Honesty and transparency about infidelity should certainly be used with children in an age appropriate way (I said so many times in my post)....but not for the purpose of involving them in that process. They need to be told because they have a right to know the truth...but not because WE need their help to put pressure on the affair. They may do that anyway....but that should be their choice.

The Lessons Children Learn

Especially at an early age, I believe age appropriate honesty and exposure is absolutely necessary to a childs well being and future development. Children are very observant and learn very quickly. It is as important to protect them from the fallout of infidelity as it is to inform them that it is occurring and it is wrong.

Children are quickly caught up in the middle and are easily cast aside when infidelity steals their parents attention away. They are left to figure it out for themselves with their naive little minds.

To make things worse, when they are informed, it is unfortunately from opposite sides of the fence and at an emotional time.

Part of Plan A exposure: Absolutely, and in an age appropriate fashion.

Starfish, but my point is that it is the EXACT SAME THING, regardless of what you call it. Exposure *IS* honesty about the affair. The only practical difference is the PURPOSE. The purpose of one is to bust up the affair, the purpose of the other is informational.

And of course, they shouldn't be told for the purpose of putting pressure on the affair, no one has said otherwise, although it does have that practical and positive effect in many cases.

Perhaps this is where agree: I never used him as a pawn or as a spy or in any way manipulated him or WW. He received age appropriate truth at the same time most everyone involved else did.

I suppose some would call that exposure.

And then he received professional help dealing with WW actions in general and the continued months long dribbling out of additional information.

DS's pain through this and the negative effects it has had on him in general is a tender subject with me.

I have not understood FWW's VLTA and her lack of love, care and respect for me, but I am learing to forgive where I can and acept what I cannot. But the more or less intentional harm she did to this innocent child is so far off the the map of comprehension I will never ever accept it.

Exactly...

Although it often happens that the WS DOES attempt to use the child[ren] as a pawn...then what?

Any tactical advice for the issue when you are not the determining party?

ML,


Isn't the difference in "purpose" important? That difference is precisely what I'm speaking to. Exposure as we use it on MB....is NOT ONLY honesty. It is directed at certain people. It is planned. It is designed to put pressure on the affair. It helps to encourage for people to confront and convince the BS to go back to the marriage and give up the affair.


Is there an echo in here? YES!! Exposure in the form of honesty to children should be to help them understand....not for affair ending purposes designed to help the BS.


I said the exact same thing ML....exactly what do you disagree with? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Here's another possible difference ML. Timing. Exposure <as we use it here> is timed to happen as quickly as possible so that the affair doesn't become entrenched. It is usually a time when the BS is angry and emotional...which might not be the best time to tell the children. Sometimes the children will find out at the same time that everyone else does....but even under those circumstances....it's not for the purpose of using them to help end the affair. Other times....the children are better told the truth at another time...when the BS can be strong and calm so that the children . Delays in MB exposure are not a good idea....but for kids....the timing is different....and it might not be best for them to be involved in the ground scorching that can be involved in exposure. The right quiet moment or question sometimes needs to arise naturally. You need to take the children's state of mind and health into account. Is your daughter about to graduate? Is your son sick? Can you tell your son after his science test rather than before?

The word exposure can be used in many ways that are equal to honesty, clarity etc....but it's the specific MB exposure process that doesn't have much to do with children.

Disclaimer: I have not read all the responses on this thread before responding.

My biggest regret in dealing with my XW's affair - biggest by a HUGE amount - was buying in to her scheme to explain her decision to move out to our then 12 year old son as "Mommy and Daddy are not happy with each other right now."

A HUGE mistake.

This was pre-MB for me and I was in DEEP depression.

I bought her scheme hook, line, and sinker as the "right" way of explaing things to our son.

A HUGE mistake. Did I say that yet?

Boy, was I snookered.

In hindsight, what I should have done was speak the truth to my son - and leave it to my wife to explain why she was leaving. I should have stated - in the presence of her and him - "Your Mom is deciding to leave us. I don't want this. I don't think you want this. It makes NO sense. What your Mom and <OM> are doing is not right. NO ONE agrees with them." (OM was our neighbor and our families were extremely close.)

Instead, it was "Mommy and Daddy are not happy with each other right now."

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

WAT

huh? We have already agreed that the purpose is different, so what are you saying exactly? Outide of that, there is no practical difference in how it is done. Exposure is exposure. So I guess I don't understand where you are going with this......

And sure, a BS has to decide the best time to do any exposure. That goes without saying because every situation is different so there is no universal rule.